Dick Grayson: Robin/ Nightwing/ Agent 37 Appreciation 2021

[Iclifton]

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I'm sure that's the thought behind Disney live-actions movies. Taylor's Nightwing is almost as original as those, and the story just as memorable.

Lol gotta start somewhere. Taking inspiration from the most successful movie studio that made a super hero`s more mainstream then ever is a pretty great place to start.

Character gets an A-list team, a massive push, and stars in multiple books after coming out of two of the most creatively bankrupt years of his existence and fans are still just as negative as ever. No other character is comics gets this much hate for simply just being a part of the franchise that spawned him. Super toxic fan base, real bummer.

[Iclifton]

Actually the multiple printing doesn't support the 50K numbers, as what the multiple printings mean is that DC's wasn't producing enough Nightwing as its prior orders were low. Comichron approximations are no longer that reliable as they no longer have access to DC sales data. Its not that there isn't deflation, its that Comichron can't track it. The book isn't seeing a push so big that orders more then doubled with no deflation. As lovely as that would be its too unrealistic. That doesn't mean this run isn't a success, the book seen an increase, i don't doubt that, but over 50k with no deflation something else. And Grayson alongside Burnside was toted as part of DCYou's inspiration.

The numbers were at they're floor before Ric, and just fell further with Ric. It struggled to keep rank in the top 100. If those numbers were a problem for Grayson there's no way those numbers aren't then a problem for the more marketable series. It lasted so long cause the were gearing up for 5G and Nightwing was low priory. It was just more convenient to let Dick be busy work for creators they like but work but no longer draw.

Ive said it multiple times, this status que is a direct response to Ric. They went too far one way, and so now they are going the other. And that does make sense, and it is working out, but that doesn't mean Grayson didn't make sense at its time and that it didn't also work out. There's a reason why half the team was put on Batman and Seeley was kept for the new biweekly series. I don't know if Grayson could have lasted 83 issues, it existed under different conditions, but it was iffy if Nightwing was going to be able to make is 83 issue at times. This run has been a success too. But its not that cut and dry, as numbers we see are no longer reliable and the conditions are much different.

I did not say Grayson did not make sense at the time. Just that it was not as successful sales wise the current run. All supporting evidence and tracking shows Nightwing currently in the 50K area. There is literally nothing to disprove that or even throw it in doubt. The Marvel numbers are reliable. As I said the last month Nightwing sold X-Force numbers it was when X-Force was guranteed to be selling 53K. This was issue 83 for Nightwing. So I guess this run falls into that something else category.

The point I am making is Nightwing is a sustainable status quo while Grayson was not. If Grayson had sold these numbers it would have lasted longer. It is also not as marketable. Which is why we get Nightwing in TV shows, if there is ever a movie it will be Nightwing, and videogames instead of secret agent Grayson. Bat family Grayson is what sells.

[Godlike13]

I did not say Grayson did not make sense at the time. Just that it was not as successful sales wise the current run. All supporting evidence and tracking shows Nightwing currently in the 50K area. There is literally nothing to disprove that or even throw it in doubt. The Marvel numbers are reliable. As I said the last month Nightwing sold X-Force numbers it was when X-Force was guranteed to be selling 53K. This was issue 83 for Nightwing. So I guess this run falls into that something else category.

The point I am making Nightwing is a sustainable status quo while Grayson was not. If Grayson had sold these numbers it would have lasted longer. It is also not as marketable. Which is why we get Nightwing in TV shows, if there is ever a movie it will be Nightwing, and videogames instead of secret agent Grayson.

But its flawed evidence and tracking. Industry history and X-Force being at mid 30's throw it in doubt. It just doesn't work that way.

And nothing was stopping Rebirth, and Dick falling inline with that initiative. If they relaunched Grayson with Rebirth maybe it does maybe it doesn't. Especially if they're cool with letting it float with similar and even lower numbers for years. Like they were with this series.

[Rakiduam]

Lol gotta start somewhere. Taking inspiration from the most successful movie studio that made a super hero`s more mainstream then ever is a pretty great place to start.

That's a spin.

Character gets an A-list team, a massive push, and stars in multiple books after coming out of two of the most creatively bankrupt years of his existence and fans are still just as negative as ever. No other character is comics gets this much hate for simply just being a part of the franchise that spawned him. Super toxic fan base, real bummer.

All it really matters are the stories, no the what list the writting team is or the number of books. Many (if not all) of the best stories of Dick Grayson are as part of a franquince. This run is just a very mediocre story, with the exception of the art everything about it is low effort, from the suit to the relationships, to the villain to the conflicts....It's just accommodating.

I think the book is the bummer, but sure it seel good enough and isn't Ric, so I guess we found the floor.

[Iclifton]

But its flawed evidence and tracking. Industry history and X-Force being at mid 30's throw it in doubt. It just doesn't work that way.

And nothing was stopping Rebirth, and Dick falling inline with that initiative. If they relaunched Grayson with Rebirth maybe it does maybe it doesn't. Especially if they're cool with letting it float with similar and even lower numbers for years. Like they were with this series.

Grayson wouldn`t. Its numbers prove that. It fell faster and lower than any Grayson solo. Your logic makes no sense. Marvel numbers are accurate. I am using the same tracking data you used and provided to make your point to make mine. Literally the proof you gave regarding X-Force supports the 50k range for Nightwing. The only month they were calculated as near each other X-Force was in the 50K range. Even if Comichron were off it would not be by 20K. It would be by a few. All evidence points to it being in the 50K range. Every metric and approximation puts it there. Your own tracking puts it there. Please provide one source which puts it in the 30K range.

If you can not, then as mentioned previously, you are just refusing to see reality and are interpreting the facts to support whatever narrative you prefer.

[Iclifton]

That's a spin.



All it really matters are the stories, no the what list the writting team is or the number of books. Many (if not all) of the best stories of Dick Grayson are as part of a franquince. This run is just a very mediocre story, with the exception of the art everything about it is low effort, from the suit to the relationships, to the villain to the conflicts....It's just accommodating.

I think the book is the bummer, but sure it seel good enough and isn't Ric, so I guess we found the floor.

I understand not being a fan of the run. Thats fine. Many people would disagree with you but everyone has an opinion.

What is not an opinion is Nightwing is a Batfamily character. Always will be. Its part of what makes him marketable. Its part of the core of the character. This will never change. It is fundamental. That has been the point of every single one of my posts.

[Rac7d*]

I understand not being a fan of the run. Thats fine. Many people would disagree with you but everyone has an opinion.

What is not an opinion is Nightwing is a Batfamily character. Always will be. Its part of what makes him marketable. Its part of the core of the character. This will never change. It is fundamental. That has been the point of every single one of my posts.

They can argue over Nightwing being a bat family or a titan
But dick Grayson himself is 100 percent apart of the bat brand.

That why In ever show credit Nightwing is serperate from starfire raven and cyborg

[Godlike13]

Grayson wouldn`t. Its numbers prove that. It fell faster and lower than any Grayson solo. Your logic makes no sense. Marvel numbers are accurate. I am using the same tracking data you used and provided to make your point to make mine. Literally the proof you gave regarding X-Force supports the 50k range for Nightwing. The only month they were calculated as near each other X-Force was in the 50K range. Even if Comichron were off it would not be by 20K. It would be by a few. All evidence points to it being in the 50K range. Every metric and approximation puts it there. Your own tracking puts it there. Please provide one source which puts it in the 30K range.

If you can not, then as mentioned previously, you are just refusing to see reality and are interpreting the facts to support whatever narrative you prefer.

Grayson did not have line wide relaunches and routine tie-ins to inflate numbers and stem deflation. It existed under different conditions. What’s more Nightwing reached lower numbers, and existed longer with lower numbers. Despite being the more marketable title. Under similar conditions it’s not out of the realm that Grayson couldn’t last. Especially if they don’t care if it falls out of the top 100 and ranks in the teens like we have seen.
I not using or providing after the Diamond split tracking numbers, I’m questioning them. Because as I say they are no longer reliable. Numbers on ongoing series don’t jump like that, even with successful creative shifts, and deflation just doesn’t stop being an industry constant. And other tracking sites are guessing differently then Comicron. The tracking data we see isn’t reliable anymore.

[AmiMizuno]

I do wonder. You think due to the Bateditors that it's the reason due to Dick's low sales? And is there any way to have him leave the Bateditors?

[Iclifton]

Grayson did not have line wide relaunches and routine tie-ins to inflate numbers and stem deflation. It existed under different conditions. What’s more Nightwing reached lower numbers, and existed longer with lower numbers. Despite being the more marketable title. Under similar conditions it’s not out of the realm that Grayson couldn’t last. Especially if they don’t care if it falls out of the top 100 and ranks in the teens like we have seen.
I not using after the Diamond split tracking numbers, because as I say they are no longer reliable. Deflation just doesn’t stop being an industry constant. And other tracking sites are guessing differently then Comicron. The tracking data we see isn’t reliable anymore.

Ric did not reach those numbers for some time though and prior to Ric the Nightwing title never reached those numbers. Regardless of how they maintained higher numbers for Rebirth Nightwing, they did. Because it is the more sustainable marketable role. To the best of my knowledge the extremely mediocre New 52 Nightwing also did not drop to Grayson numbers. Additionally, the comparison that is important is to the current run. In all honesty what makes that tracking site more reliable thank Comichron. I am not saying deflation does not exist just that Taylors run has leveled off at or at least near 50k.

Comichron has Nightwing ranked at #46 in the market while your provided link has him higher at #38. Surely that would be around 50K. The true difference is in X-Force being ranked #36 instead of #86 which leads one to assume Comichron to be the more reliable source. Even if this were not the case, this would mean X-Force sold more, not that Nightwing sold less. The inconsitency lies with X-Forces place. Not Nightwing. Both have him listed at nearly the same place in the top 100.

[Iclifton]

I do wonder. You think due to the Bateditors that it's the reason due to Dick's low sales? And is there any way to have him leave the Bateditors?

Current Bat Editors are doing well. He is out selling every other DC character other than Batman and Joker.

[MakeNightwingGreatAgain]

I do wonder. You think due to the Bateditors that it's the reason due to Dick's low sales? And is there any way to have him leave the Bateditors?

Get an IP more popular than Batman to take control of Nightwing/Dick Grayson like NTT editorial did. Until that happens, he will stay with bat editorial.

[AmiMizuno]

Current Bat Editors are doing well. He is out selling every other DC character other than Batman and Joker.

I mean the issue is he still needs his own editor. Because He is in Batfam so that's why. They aren't pushing others since Clark is gone and Wonder Woman is not having anything major in while.

[MakeNightwingGreatAgain]

Current Bat Editors are doing well. He is out selling every other DC character other than Batman and Joker.

Batman comics are literally almost half the Titles at DC right now. There isn't really much to read outside Batfam. It has been a common complaint since Rebirth. In the ICVS link Godlike posted, Batman related comics were the most DC titles on the list.

[Iclifton]

Batman comics are literally almost half the Titles at DC right now. There isn't really much to read outside Batfam. It has been a common complaint since Rebirth. In the ICVS link Godlike posted, Batman related comics were the most DC titles on the list.

Yes but he is outselling literally outselling Superman, Justice League, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman and the Justice League. All the Batman books above him are HIGH sellers. These are solid, great numbers.