Dick Grayson: Robin/ Nightwing/ Agent 37 Appreciation 2021

[Avi]

He elaborates in later comments,

Ah, I knew there was another one. This more nuanced take always makes me think Priest could be able to write a story with Dick that I actually really want to see, but there needs to be a base respect for the character Priest claims to have in his response that I don’t see when I look at Priest’s Dick Grayson.

The few times Dick appears in Priest's Deathstroke he is there to be talked down to or ignored (or killed) as far as I remember.

[Konja7]

Ah, I knew there was another one. This more nuanced take always makes me think Priest could be able to write a story with Dick that I actually really want to see, but there needs to be a base respect for the character Priest claims to have in his response that I don’t see when I look at Priest’s Dick Grayson.

The few times Dick appears in Priest's Deathstroke he is there to be talked down to or ignored (or killed) as far as I remember.

It's likely because Priest sees Dick as a boring character even if he thinks it shouldn't be that way.

In itself, Priest is blaming the writing, but that doesn't change the bad impression about a character that the writing leaves on him.

[Badou]

Priest was free to use Dick how he liked in his Lazarus Contract story, but he just **** on the character in it. I'm sorry, but Priest's comments always just came across as sour grapes to me. He's allowed to feel the way he does of course, not everyone has to enjoy the same characters, but all he had the character do was act like an idiot, made him have no idea what to do with the Damian and Wally situation, be a horrible leader, and then get beat up by Rose in his flashback that went nowhere. That was it. Those comments from Priest were him trying to walk back his true feelings where he doesn't really enjoy Dick's character and disliked Dick's fans being critical of how he was writing his story. It was clear Damian was the Robin character he was drawn to and then did everything in his power to try and write Damian more and connect him even deeper to Deathstroke. I feel like we dodged a bullet with Priest as I don't think you can really write a character well that you don't enjoy let alone respect. I imagine him writing the character more would just be him cutting the legs out from under the character over and over and acting like it is unique when that is what already happens in nearly every Nightwing run, lol.

Also his comments about how Dick should resent Bruce for making him a child solider I never agreed with. Since it ignores the fact that Dick didn't have a typical childhood where before Robin he was already putting himself in danger because he enjoyed it while in the circus. So Robin was something Dick wanted to do over Bruce pushing it on him to cause resentment.

[Grayson - The Dark Heir]

haha I'm so sorry if I came off as off putting. I was just in a mood that I needed to get it out.

Oh you're all good, I actually wasn't commenting on you specifically. I've been pretty negative about things in the past, so it was more me talking about me lmao. Dick does have a lot of potential, like in the most simple words, he's the first and original superhero raised in the world of heroes by other heroes. That DC doesn't know how to make the most of that really sucks. TTA is the closest we'll get and that's something at least.

But the thing is we're getting lots of characters and books doing the things I wish Nightwing would. Aquaman: The Becoming is basically touching on the exact vibes I would expect from Robin flashbacks, while being a fantastic book. The Flash is letting Wally grow up, finally, and just doing great DCU stories based on team-ups and interactions and wild action scenes. And so on.

Dick is always relegated to this mentor/teacher role and is never really able to step out of that stepping stone area.

This part I don't agree with.

For one, Dick has never mentored anyone that isn't part of the Batfamily aside from Rose and now future Teen Titans. Maybe Jon soon, eventually. He's not been allowed to interact with anyone meaningfully outside of the Batfamily for quite a while, so TTA is a new thing for him, getting to inspire characters again the way he did back when Tim's generation were the new kids. Hopefully Williamson eventually touches on Dick and Rose's relationship given she's literally working with Damian in the Robin book.

The other thing is Dick as a mentor being a stepping stone is a weird idea because that's never been the case. Dick jobbing? Sure, Batman stories need him to suck whenever possible because he makes for a good measuring stick. But as a mentor? None of the Robins, including Damian, no one else in the Batfamily, and definitely not Rose, are using Dick as a stepping stone. That's what Batman would be, if anything, but marking a character as "great" as Batman as just a stepping stone is a pretty hollow idea. We'd be lucky if Dick ever got that far.

[MakeNightwingGreatAgain]

The merits behind the idea of Ric is irrelevant at this point, it was what it was and the response to it was clear. Just like the response to this run has been pretty clear. I think it’s fair to say it’s been successful. Nightwing was in the danger zone of being a borderline sustainable seller, let alone a mid tier book.

Eventually the return to form will run its course and they’ll mix it up again. But Titans is clearly not a saving grace. At least not in comics. We have him in Titans comics. They do nothing with him. It’s a punishing environment that affords him no development and justifies it because the others are less popular and marketable.

I agree. I think most of nightwing content atm has ran its course which is why DC has no idea what to do with him. Many writers use him as a way to get thier name out there but they never do anything that is truely remarkable or memorable. I can see why many writers don’t know what to do with him in crossovers because at the end of the day, bat editorial has a death grip on him and they won’t let him go. Writers just can’t do whatever with Dick because bat editorial will always win out just like they did with the Titans Academy scandal.

No doubt the current run is successful but Its not in anyway something that can be comparable to SpiderMan (whcih many people like to do). Fannon dick sells because most of People buying it are people who only like fannon dick or shipping wars. Any time Dick steps out that circle and does something (Higgins, Ric, Grayson), they all complain about it and then DC over does it with the fannon Dick to appease them. It’s an annoying cycle that needs to end. And aside from Ric, Higgins Nightwing run and Grayson both bought in a ton of new Nightwing/Dick Grayson fans and I’d probably say most of them left when DC once again cheated them. They even saw how popular Dick got with New Teen Titans and instead of continuing on with that Nightwing, he was retconned into oblivion and became exactly like how he is now.

So in another convo, regarding Priest, many writers feel the same way about Dick Grayson. He has become a cookie cutter, Boy Scout with no agency and no redeeming qualities. He is really just an insert for Batfam fandom. I don’t blame him for feeling that way because it’s true. Dick should be great but he isn’t. Makes one wonder why.

[MakeNightwingGreatAgain]

Oh you're all good, I actually wasn't commenting on you specifically. I've been pretty negative about things in the past, so it was more me talking about me lmao. Dick does have a lot of potential, like in the most simple words, he's the first and original superhero raised in the world of heroes by other heroes. That DC doesn't know how to make the most of that really sucks. TTA is the closest we'll get and that's something at least.


This part I don't agree with.

For one, Dick has never mentored anyone that isn't part of the Batfamily aside from Rose and now future Teen Titans. Maybe Jon soon, eventually. He's not been allowed to interact with anyone meaningfully outside of the Batfamily for quite a while, so TTA is a new thing for him, getting to inspire characters again the way he did back when Tim's generation were the new kids. Hopefully Williamson eventually touches on Dick and Rose's relationship given she's literally working with Damian in the Robin book.

The other thing is Dick as a mentor being a stepping stone is a weird idea because that's never been the case. Dick jobbing? Sure, Batman stories need him to suck whenever possible because he makes for a good measuring stick. But as a mentor? None of the Robins, including Damian, no one else in the Batfamily, and definitely not Rose, are using Dick as a stepping stone. That's what Batman would be, if anything, but marking a character as "great" as Batman as just a stepping stone is a pretty hollow idea. We'd be lucky if Dick ever got that far.

The stepping stone comment was about Batfam. Sorry if I wasn’t being clear. I mean that he is used as a stepping stone in Batfam because he has been downgraded and retconned to let the other characters shine. He is no longer the second greatest detective because that’s Tim now. He is no longer the best fighter because Damian and Cass are now ahead of him. He is no longer the most smart because now Tim and Babs have that role. That’s what I mean, Dick has become a shell of his former self in order to make the other batfam characters better.

And now he is doing the same in titans academy. Dick should be leading Titans and fighting street level crimes. He shouldn’t be teaching at some academy. He should be fighting his rogues gallery and getting great quality arcs. Not teaching at some academy. There are other Titan members who can do that.

But I do agree with your response. DC doesn’t seem to want to let Dick be great and I don’t know why.

[AmiMizuno]

Dan and the fact that I feel like Bateditors don't want anyone greater than Bruce int eh family. Not only that but Many people Dan hired are still there. Overall Dc will never have any crossovers with the titans because he is a Batfam character and they don't want to do more work. They see him has a sidekick. I want Dick to have his own editor to stop that. He matter to everyone at Dc. And it should be shown. This is why I'm always on the fence with DickBabs due to him still being in Bateditors they can use it to lock him in Gotham and have him have even less of a role in Dc.


Especially after the new JL is coming so he doesn't matter in the long role. We have this unknown dude. Plus the fact that this Dan's idea to get rid of all the man heroes and the legacy characters aren't even given a reason why they rejected it. At least have someone who is part of the Batfam get to. I don't know about the new Flash. But overall they are suppose to be replacing all the heroes(main heroes). I wonder if they might get someone to replace Dick

[AmiMizuno]

Here is a Spider-Man and Nightwing fan crossover by Ghostpainter
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[Frontier]

Also his comments about how Dick should resent Bruce for making him a child solider I never agreed with. Since it ignores the fact that Dick didn't have a typical childhood where before Robin he was already putting himself in danger because he enjoyed it while in the circus. So Robin was something Dick wanted to do over Bruce pushing it on him to cause resentment.

I'm so over bitter Dick.

Here is a Spider-Man and Nightwing fan crossover by Ghostpainter
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CF219BF3-ED0E-49EE-8F9F-22301A0D9F26.jpg

This reminds me of how Josh Keaton was Dick in those Arkham Origins DLC.

[Iclifton]

The stepping stone comment was about Batfam. Sorry if I wasn’t being clear. I mean that he is used as a stepping stone in Batfam because he has been downgraded and retconned to let the other characters shine. He is no longer the second greatest detective because that’s Tim now. He is no longer the best fighter because Damian and Cass are now ahead of him. He is no longer the most smart because now Tim and Babs have that role. That’s what I mean, Dick has become a shell of his former self in order to make the other batfam characters better.

And now he is doing the same in titans academy. Dick should be leading Titans and fighting street level crimes. He shouldn’t be teaching at some academy. He should be fighting his rogues gallery and getting great quality arcs. Not teaching at some academy. There are other Titan members who can do that.

But I do agree with your response. DC doesn’t seem to want to let Dick be great and I don’t know why.

I would much rather Dick be in the position he is than any of the other Robins. A solo book that`s selling well and getting a big push. The guy is in a TON of books coming out. I also think its pretty clear in every Bat Book that other than Bruce, Dick is the best, most well rounded member of the family. That`s why when Bruce is away he is always in charge or the leader.

Any kind of growth for Nightwing is welcomed but I think its a little unrealistic when people want him to be his own franchise separate from the Batfam with his own editors. He is a Bat character. his legacy as the first Robin all grown up is why people read Nightwing. It is what hooked us all or at least got us to start paying attention to the character. It would be like saying, Wolverine is own character and should not be pulled into X-related events. Or Elektra needs to stand on her own and get her own editors away from Daredevil. Unrealistic expectations that will never come to pass.

[phonogram12]

It would be like saying, Wolverine is own character and should not be pulled into X-related events. Or Elektra needs to stand on her own and get her own editors away from Daredevil. Unrealistic expectations that will never come to pass.

I would actually be okay with all of this.

[MakeNightwingGreatAgain]

I would much rather Dick be in the position he is than any of the other Robins. A solo book that`s selling well and getting a big push. The guy is in a TON of books coming out. I also think its pretty clear in every Bat Book that other than Bruce, Dick is the best, most well rounded member of the family. That`s why when Bruce is away he is always in charge or the leader.

Any kind of growth for Nightwing is welcomed but I think its a little unrealistic when people want him to be his own franchise separate from the Batfam with his own editors. He is a Bat character. his legacy as the first Robin all grown up is why people read Nightwing. It is what hooked us all or at least got us to start paying attention to the character. It would be like saying, Wolverine is own character and should not be pulled into X-related events. Or Elektra needs to stand on her own and get her own editors away from Daredevil. Unrealistic expectations that will never come to pass.

But Nightwing was created to be on his own though? That was the whole point of his character creator and growth. Idk where people get the idea that Nightwing is supposed to be a batman side kick because he isnt. Marv created him because DC had no idea what to do with Dick as Robin so he made Nightwing in order to get Dick out the shadow and do stuff on his own. Thats why people are asking for more Nightwing centered content outside Batfam. Its the reason why he has his own solo in the first place. Its bat editorial who has retconned the mess out of Nightwing and turned him into what he is today, which is just another Robin just grown up. Thats not what Nightwing was created to do. NTT was DC answer to X-Men and Nightwing was supposed to be the answer to Spiderman and yeah well DC dropped the ball on both fronts.

This is why Nightwing fanbase is never consistent. Its why Nightwing always gets a peak of sales in the beginning and tapers off. Its why Grayson is easily one of the top Dick Grayson books. The General public doesnt want Nightwing sidekick to batman, They want Nightwing solo. Just because the batfam has infiltrated the fandom, doesnt mean that Dick has to revert back to a stage that he successfully was pulle d out from that made him the popular character in the first place. If Marv never created Nightwing, Dick Grayson would not be here today and thats a fact. Its because DC didnt know what to do with him outside of him being Batman's sidekick, remind you of anything recent?

[Iclifton]

But Nightwing was created to be on his own though? That was the whole point of his character creator and growth. Idk where people get the idea that Nightwing is supposed to be a batman side kick because he isnt. Marv created him because DC had no idea what to do with Dick as Robin so he made Nightwing in order to get Dick out the shadow and do stuff on his own. Thats why people are asking for more Nightwing centered content outside Batfam. Its the reason why he has his own solo in the first place. Its bat editorial who has retconned the mess out of Nightwing and turned him into what he is today, which is just another Robin just grown up. Thats not what Nightwing was created to do. NTT was DC answer to X-Men and Nightwing was supposed to be the answer to Spiderman and yeah well DC dropped the ball on both fronts.

This is why Nightwing fanbase is never consistent. Its why Nightwing always gets a peak of sales in the beginning and tapers off. Its why Grayson is easily one of the top Dick Grayson books. The General public doesnt want Nightwing sidekick to batman, They want Nightwing solo. Just because the batfam has infiltrated the fandom, doesnt mean that Dick has to revert back to a stage that he successfully was pulle d out from that made him the popular character in the first place. If Marv never created Nightwing, Dick Grayson would not be here today and thats a fact. Its because DC didnt know what to do with him outside of him being Batman's sidekick, remind you of anything recent?

We can agree regarding the quality of Grayson but unfortunately the sales were not there. In fact it was one the characters lowest selling solo titles, so obviously the general public wanted him to return to the role of Nightwing.

Batman is DC`s most profitable character. Superman himself does not get the same reverence as Batman. Yes, the role was created so he can operate outside of Batman. Which he does. He makes his own decisions in his own city. However, like the character examples I gave above, he is still a part of the franchise. He will participate and always be considered Batfam. TBH it was not until Bat editorial got him back that Nightwing was even a solo character. He was not created to be DC`s answer to Spider-man. In the Titans run he was more of a analogue to Cyclops. DC has made a lot of bad decisions with the character (Ric, everything after Dixon up until Tomasi) but this run and current status is not one. It may not be one your partial to but he is getting a huge push at the moment. We owe almost all of his success as a solo character to his legacy in the Batfam.

[Iclifton]

I would actually be okay with all of this.

Me as well. But my point is its just not feasible or realistic.

[Godlike13]

Its why Nightwing always gets a peak of sales in the beginning and tapers off.

Thats just how the industry works. That is not a character thing, thats an industry thing.

We can agree regarding the quality of Grayson but unfortunately the sales were not there. In fact it was one the characters lowest selling solo titles, so obviously the general public wanted him to return to the role of Nightwing.

Sales had nothing to do with Grayson's destiny. Ric out lasted Grayson with worse sales.