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  1. #3166
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    The JL isn’t real. The Titans writer was just more interested in dissecting the Titans and its characters rather then build anything. Despite everything already being in shambles. Titans used the JL to fit the narrative the Titans creators wanted to explore.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 10-20-2021 at 02:20 AM.

  2. #3167

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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    There's a Titans book right now. We even have that teacher Nightwing some people said would be a good direction for him. The Titans books have Dick to use, they just don't do anything with him. And anytime someone points that out it's quickly countered with well he has a solo. But Titans should be in his solo too.

    Like it or not this was the direction they needed to take. Ric drove off audiences. They need to return to form to try an signal an audience back. After Ric destroyed and mocked what people liked about Nightwing, they are now responding to that by leaning back into all things Nightwing. And if this didn't work Nightwing would have been in big trouble. As general character sentiment and marketability was shot.
    People didnít like Ric because it was a good idea that was poorely executed. They went to far into the left field and now They are leaning too far into fannon and that is also not the correct direction. Nightwing hasnít been this standout bestseller in years. In fact, he makes enough to just stay afloat which is not a bad thing but itís not something Iíd gloat about.. If he wasnít part of batfam I fear he would have been let go as a character years ago. TeAcher dick is ok but I just donít understand why they wonít let dick get the Spider-Man/flash treatment. Dick is always relegated to this mentor/teacher role and is never really able to step out of that stepping stone area.

    I get that pandering to fannon has bought some fans back, but what gonna happen when they stop the pander? Are they really gonna let fannon decide the direction dick need to go rather than true development? I guess this is a question for DC. NTT Nightwing was legendary and that was why he became as popular as he did. They should be taking notes from that era and not from tumblr. Many Nightwing fans only care about dick when it comes to romance or sexualizing him. If they liked dick as a character, youíd think they would support him outside batfam but they donít.

    I agree with your main point, but If people want dick to have more fans, they need to stop the pandering and actually work on developing him.

  3. #3168
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue22 View Post
    Which is exactly why I always thought JUST having TTA as the sole Titans book was a bad idea. We finally got most of the big name Titans together and they're playing second banana to a bunch of barely interesting new kids. Surely there's some superhero stuff and character building that the teachers could be doing while they're not teaching, right? Let's see some of that. Do what's been done before with the Titans books and split them between the teens and the veterans.
    Yeah, I wasn't completely against TTA as a concept but I feel like people expect a more traditional Titans book (which might still be coming, I think it was rumored).

    I guess that's Titans United by default.

  4. #3169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Yeah, I wasn't completely against TTA as a concept but I feel like people expect a more traditional Titans book (which might still be coming, I think it was rumored).

    I guess that's Titans United by default.
    Tim Sheridan said before that he plans to leave TTA around issue #12. After that anything could happen. Even with the academy settings, the book could be so much better.

    As for the Wally-Dick meeting - Taylor continues to tease about it. Maybe it could be around issue 88?
    It's possible DC wanted to give the Titans academy the first shot at the reunion between the Titans (we already know that both Roy and Wally would be there in TTA issues 8/9).

    So as far as characters appearing in the book we already had Babs and Tim, in the next issue and in urban legends 10 we'll see Dick with the batgirls, in the annual we'll also see him interacting with Jason, so hopefully around January we'll get Wally.
    I'm not against showing that Dick is the heart of the batfamily by exploring his connection with the batfam characters in the first arc, as long as in the next arc we'll also see guest appearances of the Titans and other characters showing that he's also a meaningful character in the DCU.

  5. #3170
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claude View Post
    Remember when Christopher Priest wanted Seeley's run to tie into Lazarus Contract? I always wondered whether it was editorial fiefdoms that put a stop to it - but given A) The high quality of Priest's run, and B) The very low quality of Lazarus Contract as arrived on shelves, I can't decide whether we missed out on the classic Nightwing/Deathstroke story we've talking about the character needing, or whether Seeley dodged a creative bullet.
    I remember reading interviews advertising this event and what we got in the end was very different so editors were clearly forcing Priest to change his story. Maybe bat editors saw what was going on and said no on one of their books being involved.

  6. #3171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claude View Post
    Remember when Christopher Priest wanted Seeley's run to tie into Lazarus Contract? I always wondered whether it was editorial fiefdoms that put a stop to it - but given A) The high quality of Priest's run, and B) The very low quality of Lazarus Contract as arrived on shelves, I can't decide whether we missed out on the classic Nightwing/Deathstroke story we've talking about the character needing, or whether Seeley dodged a creative bullet.
    With priest Batman/Deathstroke story also being a total mess I'm going with "dodged a creative bullet".

  7. #3172
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
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    What mess are you talking about in Batman/Deathstroke?

  8. #3173
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeNightwingGreatAgain View Post
    People didn’t like Ric because it was a good idea that was poorely executed. They went to far into the left field and now They are leaning too far into fannon and that is also not the correct direction. Nightwing hasn’t been this standout bestseller in years. In fact, he makes enough to just stay afloat which is not a bad thing but it’s not something I’d gloat about.. If he wasn’t part of batfam I fear he would have been let go as a character years ago. TeAcher dick is ok but I just don’t understand why they won’t let dick get the Spider-Man/flash treatment. Dick is always relegated to this mentor/teacher role and is never really able to step out of that stepping stone area.

    I get that pandering to fannon has bought some fans back, but what gonna happen when they stop the pander? Are they really gonna let fannon decide the direction dick need to go rather than true development? I guess this is a question for DC. NTT Nightwing was legendary and that was why he became as popular as he did. They should be taking notes from that era and not from tumblr. Many Nightwing fans only care about dick when it comes to romance or sexualizing him. If they liked dick as a character, you’d think they would support him outside batfam but they don’t.

    I agree with your main point, but If people want dick to have more fans, they need to stop the pandering and actually work on developing him.
    The merits behind the idea of Ric is irrelevant at this point, it was what it was and the response to it was clear. Just like the response to this run has been pretty clear. I think it’s fair to say it’s been successful. Nightwing was in the danger zone of being a borderline sustainable seller, let alone a mid tier book.

    Eventually the return to form will run its course and they’ll mix it up again. But Titans is clearly not a saving grace. At least not in comics. We have him in Titans comics. They do nothing with him. It’s a punishing environment that affords him no development and justifies it because the others are less popular and marketable.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 10-20-2021 at 02:20 AM.

  9. #3174
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    What mess are you talking about in Batman/Deathstroke?
    Priest wanting to make Damian Slade’s kid I expect. Some are still sore over that lol.
    For when my rants on the forums just arenít enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  10. #3175
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Priest wanting to make Damian Slade’s kid I expect. Some are still sore over that lol.
    I seriously can't understand this argument when Priest's story does the exact opposite and drills down that a) Bruce is the father b) Bruce would be the father even if he wasn't biological father.

  11. #3176
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    What mess are you talking about in Batman/Deathstroke?
    To me nothing that happened in that story made much sense, starting with the motivation of the characters.

    I would have to read it to go in to detail, but just from what I remember:
    - the whole story revolving just about this faked DNA test, makes already for a pretty weak plot, with no real stakes
    - Batman just wanting to shut down Deathstroke because of that, and not because he is supervillain makes also not much sense
    - Alfred and Wintergreen conspiring behind Batman's and Deathstroke's? Why would they do that?
    - Why is Deathstroke just leaving Damian to tag along with him?
    - Why does Tim look like Dick/Jason in Black and white?
    Last edited by Aahz; 10-20-2021 at 12:49 AM.

  12. #3177
    Mighty Member Avi's Avatar
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    Yeah, dodged a bullet. As Priest said himself: I find Dick Grayson to be the most boring Wonder Bread boilerplate character ever to pull on spandex. Lazarus Contract was never gonna be Deathstroke vs Nightwing.
    Last edited by Avi; 10-20-2021 at 02:33 AM.

  13. #3178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avi View Post
    Yeah, dodged a bullet. As Priest said himself: I find Dick Grayson to be the most boring Wonder Bread boilerplate character ever to pull on spandex. Lazarus Contract was never gonna be Deathstroke vs Nightwing.
    He was making a point. And being honest cookie cutter, well adjusted, boy scout is unfortunately a common take on Dick. One i despise because it leads to people in the audience seeing him that way.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 10-20-2021 at 02:45 AM.

  14. #3179
    Mighty Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avi View Post
    Yeah, dodged a bullet. As Priest said himself: I find Dick Grayson to be the most boring Wonder Bread boilerplate character ever to pull on spandex. Lazarus Contract was never gonna be Deathstroke vs Nightwing.
    I remember that, why did he feel that way again?

  15. #3180
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderNight View Post
    I remember that, why did he feel that way again?
    He elaborates in later comments,

    I didn’t mean to suggest NW has no flaws. I meant to to suggest I, personally, find him boring, when he shouldn’t be. There’s more untapped potential in Grayson than there is oil in Russia. NW should be one of DC’s top-selling books. Take Batman and turn him inside out.

    “A character looking at their trauma and tragedy and saying ‘you don’t own me’ is inspiring to me. ”

    Yeah. That”s what I’m sayin’. Let’s bring that into sharper focus.

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