Dick Grayson: Robin/ Nightwing/ Agent 37 Appreciation 2021

[Iclifton]

This is true, though few other characters have had this bad habit intentionally weaponized against them, which I believe is the case with Dick. And even if it's just "the nature of things" and not intentional sabotage, it's incredibly short sighted, bad business, and for a company the size of DC, with the pedigree they have, that's unforgivable.

Writers want to do their own thing? They can do it in creator owned work and/or with brand new characters. If you take a gig at the Big 2, writing established characters, you should use what's on the board. DC has damaged their brand and the individual IP's by not enforcing consistency.



The story hasn't come out yet so we can't say what it is or isn't.

For myself, I'm not overly worried. Taylor has done alright by me, even if I was hoping for something "bigger" than a Dixon redux. But we can't blame the people who are concerned either. Look at the early 52; not too deep into the new era, Dick got derailed by a Bat event and had the entire supporting cast and setting that was being crafted ripped away from him. It happened with Percy. It happened several other times, if I recall correctly. And here we are, fresh into another new era and once again Dick is getting thrown into a Bat event. The pattern is obvious, and while I share your opinion that this event won't be as harmful, well, the pattern is still obvious and that in and of itself is reason for some concern.

The fact that DC now seems to recognize Dick's value is thin tonic to a fanbase that has grown accustomed to seeing the character abused, marginalized, and disrespected for Bruce's benefit. This Fear State event might not follow the same path as Death of the Family and KGBeast, but you're asking fans to forget over a decade of abuse and, after only six months, assume that this time will be different.



I agree. But again, they're still following a sadly familiar pattern and fans have every right to be worried about that.

If this is indeed a different animal, we'll know in a few issues when the crossover wraps up. Until then, expect people to remain unconvinced.

Concern is not what I am seeing. Everyone is complaining as if it has already happened. Specifically noting that Nightwing taking part in this crossover is a plot hole or concern and discredits what is happening in the book. The only continued pattern is Dick taking part in a crossover. Which will always be a thing. Those other runs never treated Dick as a priority or gave him respect. We can already see we are in a vastly different space given the creative freedom Tom has been given, the amount of books being published with Grayson and the A-list teams being given. This is as good as it gets comic wise.

[Ascended]

Concern is not what I am seeing. Everyone is complaining as if it has already happened.

And by assuming things will turn out differently this time, aren't we also acting as if the arc has already ended?

You're right, there's some people here who are hellbent on running Taylor's work down and will find anything to complain about, no matter how silly or hypocritical (not like anyone bitches about Bruce leaving Gotham to hang with the League). But my point is that the Nightwing fandom has grown accustomed to getting f*cked over, and it's not surprising that people here are expecting DC to f*ck them over again. It's been happening for more than a decade, and Taylor's six issues isn't enough to convince people that things are different now.

I agree that we're in a much better place than we were a year ago. I've been a pretty damned happy wingnut. But I don't expect fans to forgive and forget after six issues, either.

[Iclifton]

And by assuming things will turn out differently this time, aren't we also acting as if the arc has already ended?

You're right, there's some people here who are hellbent on running Taylor's work down and will find anything to complain about, no matter how silly or hypocritical (not like anyone bitches about Bruce leaving Gotham to hang with the League). But my point is that the Nightwing fandom has grown accustomed to getting f*cked over, and it's not surprising that people here are expecting DC to f*ck them over again. It's been happening for more than a decade, and Taylor's six issues isn't enough to convince people that things are different now.

I agree that we're in a much better place than we were a year ago. I've been a pretty damned happy wingnut. But I don't expect fans to forgive and forget after six issues, either.

I do not expect them to forget. But literally all signs point to the opposite. Look at all the books we are getting. Taylor has flat out confirmed a return to his storyline. All of the complaints I have replied to are about how his book is currently going in the wrong direction. All my responses have been in regard to unrealistic expectations.

Also, yes the initial 6 issue arc is over. He has left certain plot points unresolved as they are long term plots, as many series do at both DC and Marvel.
On a positive note, I am pumped to see the book selling well.

[AmiMizuno]

You guys think we are going to get that Nightwing cartoon? Because I know there was a video saying it's happening. Hopefully for a while there isn't a love triangle but most likely when Tom leaves we are most likely getting a break up. Let's hope not. Overall Dc I believe is while wanting DickBabs also know they can get money and maybe worried on the backlash.

Overall we know marriage is never in the cards with the Batfam.

[Daedalus]

You guys think we are going to get that Nightwing cartoon? Because I know there was a video saying it's happening.

That's been a rumor for over a decade at this point. If we do, I hope it won't be a Bruce Timm one. There are some characters Timm really doesn't get, and Dick Grayson is one of them.

I'd hope for something done by Greg Weisman.

Hopefully for a while there isn't a love triangle but most likely when Tom leaves we are most likely getting a break up. Let's hope not.

Taylor just tweeted today that he and Redondo will be on Nightwing for a long time, so I don't think we should worry about what happens when he leaves. I expect he'll stay on at least till #100.

Overall Dc I believe is while wanting DickBabs also know they can get money and maybe worried on the backlash.

Overall we know marriage is never in the cards with the Batfam.

Let's see where he takes their relationship. I'd imagine there's much more writer freedom around Dick Grayson than around Bruce Wayne.

[HsssH]

Look at the early 52; not too deep into the new era, Dick got derailed by a Bat event and had the entire supporting cast and setting that was being crafted ripped away from him.

I wonder if this isn't one of the reasons why current arc doesn't really have any supporting characters? Asides of his sister he is interacting only with other heroes. And his sister will eventually turn either into a hero or a villain.

Same for setting really, this Bludhaven is just generic Bludhaven like every other one. You can't really damage it. Well sure, you can nuke it again, but I don't think that its plausible scenario at the time.

[Godlike13]

The New 52 Nightwing series wasn’t derailed by a Bat event. It was driven by a Bat Event. It’s entire initial direction was to feed into the Court of Owls event. The supporting cast, the setting, all there to feed into the Court story and it’s reveals.

[Rac7d*]

The New 52 Nightwing series wasn’t derailed by a Bat event. It was driven by a Bat Event. It’s entire initial direction was to feed into the Court of Owls event. The supporting cast, the setting, all there to feed into the Court story and it’s reveals.

Then destroyed by death of the family event

[Claude]

Then destroyed by death of the family event

Causing Higgins' retool/move to Chicago, which was derailed by Forever Evil...

Can't blame people for feeling a bit stung still! I mean, Snyder's "No Justice" event was aggressively unmemorable, but going from interviews in the weeks in advance talking about Nightwing/Amanda Waller teaming up to be Earth Defense, and then the previews come out and its Green Arrow in his place? That one hurt!

[Godlike13]

Then destroyed by death of the family event

Most of it was already put to bed by the climax of the Court story. The new friends were dead and Haley’s secrets were reveled. They just did the same thing again with Death of Family. Setting up a direction to ultimately feed into the event. The move to Chicago was the only point that series had its own direction to derail. And at that point it’s was a mercy kill. Forcing the happy accident that was Grayson. Other then the Chicago arc though, the events were its destinations.

[Rac7d*]

Most of it was already put to bed by the climax of the Court story. The new friends were dead and Haley’s secrets were reveled. They just did the same thing again with Death of Family. Setting up a direction to ultimately feed into the event. The move to Chicago was the only point that series had its own direction to derail. And at that point it’s was a mercy kill. Forcing the happy accident that was Grayson. Other then the Chicago arc though, the events were its destinations.

I wonder if the writers agree on that

[Iclifton]

I can see why people were angry with the New 52 run I wasn’t a fan either, but all indications are this isn’t what’s happening at all.

Bludhaven is being developed. So far we have met his sister, the Maroni family and like it or not reastablished Blockbuster as a big factor. It’s only been 6 issues and Taylor has introduced a lot of different plot points and spent time putting Dick in a new position within the city. I’m sure we will get more of a supporting cast as the book progresses.

In regards to animated series, I honestly see this happening. I believe Jim Lee just had an interview where he said DC the publisher is being asked to push characters that could be adapted in the future. I don’t think it’s coincidence Nightwing is being pushed. He is attached to the companies number one IP. Mark my words, within the next few years we get an animated series/movie! If it were Timm, I’d be a little bummed, but I’ll be happy to take what I can get.

[Iclifton]

I wonder if this isn't one of the reasons why current arc doesn't really have any supporting characters? Asides of his sister he is interacting only with other heroes. And his sister will eventually turn either into a hero or a villain.

Same for setting really, this Bludhaven is just generic Bludhaven like every other one. You can't really damage it. Well sure, you can nuke it again, but I don't think that its plausible scenario at the time.

It takes time to build a solid supporting cast. The man has had six issues. Guaranteed if he had spent this arc introducing a bunch of OC`s we would be getting complaints about how another writer disregards Dicks connections to the outside DCU and focuses on a bland/generic supporting cast that the next writer will not use.

There is just no winning.

[SiegePerilous02]

It takes time to build a solid supporting cast. The man has had six issues. Guaranteed if he had spent this arc introducing a bunch of OC`s we would be getting complaints about how another writer disregards Dicks connections to the outside DCU and focuses on a bland/generic supporting cast that the next writer will not use.

There is just no winning.

Couldn't he avoid that by using previous Bludhaven characters from the Dixon, Grayson or Seeley days instead of making new ones? At the very least it might cut the legs out from the "nobody will use these characters again" argument because he'd be using previous ones that have at least some history and it gives them more legs.

Of course it is early, and he very well may end up doing just that.

[Iclifton]

Couldn't he avoid that by using previous Bludhaven characters from the Dixon, Grayson or Seeley days instead of making new ones? At the very least it might cut the legs out from the "nobody will use these characters again" argument because he'd be using previous ones that have at least some history and it gives them more legs.

Of course it is early, and he very well may end up doing just that.

Then we would be getting more complaints about how this run is a Bludhaven redux.

Like I said no winning.

To be honest, Tim, Superman and the Titans have not been a huge part of the run and have not derailed the story. The only character that has been a true side character is Barbara and tbh it makes sense. She adds to the book.