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  1. #1621
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dropkickjake View Post
    laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame

    But I'll let it change my mind if it can.
    Definitely isn't something that grabs my interest either.

    But I'll let the story tell me what's going on and make up my mind then. I don't take BC seriously either, even if they seem to be on point with this.

    I figure there's two ways this can go. It can either be Cobalt Blue all over again, where Wally meets the long lost and random twin brother of Barry (and it was awful, despite being surrounded by a cool "Flashes of the future team up" story), or it could be Lincoln March where it's basically just empty buzz and misdirect meant to hype a new character (and that's not so bad).

    If this goes the way of March then Taylor will have done his job right, keeping us on the edge of our seats and ensuring we don't forget this newest Zucco anytime soon, but ultimately not hurting Dick, his father, or the history. If this goes the way of Blue, then it's damned stupid and cliched.

    I doubt we'll know for sure which this is until the end of the arc, if not later.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  2. #1622
    Mighty Member Rakiduam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Definitely isn't something that grabs my interest either.

    But I'll let the story tell me what's going on and make up my mind then. I don't take BC seriously either, even if they seem to be on point with this.

    I figure there's two ways this can go. It can either be Cobalt Blue all over again, where Wally meets the long lost and random twin brother of Barry (and it was awful, despite being surrounded by a cool "Flashes of the future team up" story), or it could be Lincoln March where it's basically just empty buzz and misdirect meant to hype a new character (and that's not so bad).

    If this goes the way of March then Taylor will have done his job right, keeping us on the edge of our seats and ensuring we don't forget this newest Zucco anytime soon, but ultimately not hurting Dick, his father, or the history. If this goes the way of Blue, then it's damned stupid and cliched.

    I doubt we'll know for sure which this is until the end of the arc, if not later.
    Of course, if Taylor is copying Snyder is good if he's copying Wally's story is cliche, that makes sense. After all Taylor is the guy that killed Dick with a rock, he has already showed how well he can develop a bad idea.

    That's why the book has been so slow and lacking in action, we weren't supposed to get excited about what Dick is doing now. No, the exciting part is what his dad did years and years ago.

  3. #1623
    Amazing Member Murrocko's Avatar
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    First Court of Owls/William Cobb, then Raptor, and now this shit if true, are these really the only stories writers can come up with for Nightwing anymore?

  4. #1624

  5. #1625
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Well, that happened...

  6. #1626
    Mighty Member Rakiduam's Avatar
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    As long as there isn't a rock close by Nightwing may survive this.

  7. #1627
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, that happened...
    Like...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakiduam View Post
    As long as there isn't a rock close by Nightwing may survive this.

    Lol. Stop it.

    ---
    On this whole identity thing, I hope it's a fake out of some sort.

    I do feel like "crapping" on dead characters (who as far as we know were, for lack of a better word, clean) is a tired old and easy-out (lazy) trope which IMO should be avoided at all costs. This being done to one of my favorite characters rubs me the wrong way.

    As others have said, let's wait and see. I generally find Taylor's writing/books to my taste and I'm enjoying this current run despite its slow (worldbuilding?) pace so for now, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

  8. #1628
    Mighty Member Avi's Avatar
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    Lol. Just gonna quote myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avi View Post
    Like, I don't expect Dick to give the same beat down to Heartless he gave to KGBeast, but I hope there is some meat to that fight in the next Issue. If they fight.

  9. #1629
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    I never really looked at the Raptor thing as a mic drop. I think Seeley knew what he wanted to do from the beginning with his first arc, and it wasn't this shocking reveal once we knew that Raptor was close with Dick's mom shown earlier in the run. I feel like people even back then were speculating on it because Raptor kept talking about Dick's mom so much. The first arc was titled "Better than Batman" where Raptor was introduced and I think Seeley with that title was trying to show that maybe Raptor was better for Dick than Bruce, that he should have been the one to take in Dick, and finally that he might be his actual father. At least coming from Raptor's perspective.

    The issue with this is that removing John Grayson as Dick's father does change things, like the the Court of Owls connection. Then he is no longer related to William Cobb/Talon so fans of that would be upset. The problem also is that Raptor is like a C or D list villain, who has no real weight behind him, and to reduce Dick's father to being that is kind of not worth it. So the whole tease was blah. Since at the moment Raptor is getting his face beaten in by Green Arrow's son in that Robin series, right? For that to be Dick's dad is kind of pathetic, haha.

    But these kind of secret family drama stories never work out. I don't expect this one with Taylor to be any different. The only ones that have any staying power are when you introduce surprise kids of the heroes, as they can then get slotted into some legacy role that might keep them around. Other than that comics are filled with secret family members that were basically a waste of time for cheap drama.

    I mean remember that just last year Jurgens introduced Dick's grandparents, who apparently took in Dick before Bruce did after his parents died, and they were secret Court of Owl operatives used to manipulate Dick? No one remembers this at all because it was an awful story, but it happened. All of this stuff is in the same boat for me. Just needless family drama that never goes anywhere other than to paint Dick's own parents in a bad light for a bit. You see it so much in comics. I get why Taylor is doing it. He is trying to give Dick some personal connection to Bludhaven, since he has none, and making its mayor related to Dick like this is his attempt to give Bludhaven some validation, but of course I don't think it will work. Also to drag back in the Zucco drama where they want Dick to be like Bruce more in that he can't fully escape or move on from his parent's death probably. Higgins was like that too when he wanted to turn Zucco into Dick's own Joker or something originally.
    John still raised him as his son, and the major beats still play out the same nevertheless. Cobb and Court don’t seem to care either. As Talon’s aren’t about lineage anyway. John isn’t particularly special. The idea that Raptor could be his father wasn’t the driving force behind the story, from Raptor’s perspective the motivation was Dick forgetting where he came from. The important thing was that he was Mary’s son to Raptor. That he could have been Dick’s dad was a total mic drop. Seeley leaving and going, oh btw. This dude could maybe be his dad. Bye. Of course he knew what he was leaving readers with. That’s why it was so amusing.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 06-12-2021 at 03:42 AM.

  10. #1630
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    John still raised him as his son, and the major beats still play out the same nevertheless. Cobb and Court don’t seem to care either. As Talon’s aren’t about lineage anyway. John isn’t particularly special. The idea that Raptor could be his father wasn’t the driving force behind the story, from Raptor’s perspective the motivation was Dick forgetting where he came from. The important thing was that he was Mary’s son to Raptor. That he could have been Dick’s dad was a total mic drop. Seeley leaving and going, oh btw. This dude could maybe be his dad. Bye. Of course he knew what he was leaving readers with. That’s why it was so amusing.
    Well, I think he's special by virtue of being Dick's biological dad.

    I don't think Seeley needed to be that kind of...troll-ish? But I guess what one finds amusing is all dependent on perspective...

  11. #1631
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    All the talk about Raptor makes me wonder if Taylor isn't going to bring that up and kinda connect it all? Dick's parents didn't have a good relationship with each other, both were unfaithful, but stayed married so that Dick could have a "normal family"? I'm sure that someone can write a compelling story about all that, but then you add in Court of Owls and Dick's entire background becomes complex nightmare, no? I mean, Bruce's parents are often shown to have had some contacts with other "important" people, but at the end of the day they still were just some rich couple that were shot in a robbery.

    Looking at the preview, its going to be real funny (in a bad way) when Dick will be saved by either Tim or Babs or both. Hey, maybe even some kid will help him. And sure, when you reveal a new villain you don't really want to have hero beat him on the first try. But problem is that Dick hasn't really done anything in previous 3 issues and if this trend continues then long lost sister won't even be the reason why I'll drop this run.

  12. #1632
    Astonishing Member Drako's Avatar
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    Raptor had a relationship with Mary when they were younger. I never had the impression that he could be Dick's father.

  13. #1633
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drako View Post
    Raptor had a relationship with Mary when they were younger. I never had the impression that he could be Dick's father.
    Yeah, I mean, it's weird naming your kid after your old lover but I don't think Dick was really Raptor's kid, he just heavily projected on him.

  14. #1634
    Mighty Member Avi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Yeah, I mean, it's weird naming your kid after your old lover but I don't think Dick was really Raptor's kid, he just heavily projected on him.
    Raptor was/is so obsessive over Mary and so against John, it's easy to take his every word with a grain of salt. Richard might not even be his real name.

  15. #1635
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    John still raised him as his son, and the major beats still play out the same nevertheless. Cobb and Court donít seem to care either. As Talonís arenít about lineage anyway. John isnít particularly special. The idea that Raptor could be his father wasnít the driving force behind the story, from Raptorís perspective the motivation was Dick forgetting where he came from. The important thing was that he was Maryís son to Raptor. That he could have been Dickís dad was a total mic drop. Seeley leaving and going, oh btw. This dude could maybe be his dad. Bye. Of course he knew what he was leaving readers with. Thatís why it was so amusing.
    The Cobb and Grayson part matters because Cobb's viewpoint is Dick's a Grayson and he should be Talon. Him creating a whole line of family as an expression of revenge is his design, and Dick fighting against that to show that design means nothing to him since his own choice matters more.

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