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  1. #3256
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeNightwingGreatAgain View Post
    Not disagreeing but comic sales are always pretty consistent. The problem is that the sales hover around not being good enough in the long term despite for characters like Batman. This is why DC has the problem it has. The point for Nightwing is that despite the fact his sales are consistent enough to stay afloat, they arnt significant enough to make a dent in the grand scheme. Which in my opinion is why DC doesnít care to push him because people donít associate Nightwing as brand. Nightwing was being pushed hard by dc when NTT was a thing and then again with Grayson Becuase people outside comics were taking notice and for Grayson that is despite the sales. So it is true that Nightwing doesnít need to be with the batfam to make progress because Higgins, Grayson and NTT showed us that he doesnít. As godlike pointed out, itís natural for sales to start off strong and then go down and stagnant. That is a common trend that shouldnít be common and is why DC is feeling the burn.
    But for his sales to really grow, in the end of the day the number of comic buyers has to increase. Like I said he is allready selling numbers comparable with DCs bigges characters outside of Batman and Superman.

    Quote Originally Posted by MakeNightwingGreatAgain View Post
    Like I mentioned, Nightwing was on his way to becoming his own brand with the NTT editorial. He was the star of that entire team. Marv even created new robins because DC asked him to replace dick Grayson for Batman mythos. The plan was always for Dick to become his ďown.Ē During this time period late 80s early 90s Nightwing as a character was as popular as he probably would ever be. He became an icon at DC. He started appearing more in pop culture. Starfire and Nightwing were at a time considered one of DCís greatest couples. That failed when the editors left and Dick got returned to Bateditorial where they again didnít know what to do with him since they now had both Tim and Jason Todd. And then DC started going down in sales again and weíll yeah N52 happened.
    The problem was more that NTT simply became pretty crappy in the end (and I'm talking here about almost everyting from the 90s), and that franchise has sofar never really managed get back on tack since then.

  2. #3257
    Mighty Member Rakiduam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iclifton View Post
    I understand not being a fan of the run. Thats fine. Many people would disagree with you but everyone has an opinion.

    What is not an opinion is Nightwing is a Batfamily character. Always will be. Its part of what makes him marketable. Its part of the core of the character. This will never change. It is fundamental. That has been the point of every single one of my posts.
    OK... but in the current run that's ALL he is, every around him is part of Batman, his whole word is related to Batman, and that is so little, why do you like him small character in his own world? And again, all of that would be easier to ignore if the storie wasn't so mediocre.

  3. #3258
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeNightwingGreatAgain View Post
    Like I mentioned, Nightwing was on his way to becoming his own brand with the NTT editorial. He was the star of that entire team. Marv even created new robins because DC asked him to replace dick Grayson for Batman mythos. The plan was always for Dick to become his ďown.Ē During this time period late 80s early 90s Nightwing as a character was as popular as he probably would ever be. He became an icon at DC. He started appearing more in pop culture. Starfire and Nightwing were at a time considered one of DCís greatest couples. That failed when the editors left and Dick got returned to Bateditorial where they again didnít know what to do with him since they now had both Tim and Jason Todd. And then DC started going down in sales again and weíll yeah N52 happened.
    I wouldn't say that Nightwing was the star of NTT. He was the leader, but he wasn't really more important or relevant than other characters in that team.

    It's true that Nightwing become really independent from Batman brand in NTT, but he wasn't a solo hero either. He was part of the team and there wasn't plans for him to be a solo hero.

    DC returned Nightwing to Batman editorial when NTT had dropped in sales and popularity. In other words, this was the best thing that could happen to the character in that situation (and Nightwing even gets a solo).

  4. #3259

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    But for his sales to really grow, in the end of the day the number of comic buyers has to increase. Like I said he is allready selling numbers comparable with DCs bigges characters outside of Batman and Superman.

    The problem was more that NTT simply became pretty crappy in the end (and I'm talking here about almost everyting from the 90s), and that franchise has sofar never really managed get back on tack since then.
    Youíre right! But the same can be said about most Nightwing content. They stories normally get convoluted and contrived with no real direction. Itís a big complaint about the big two comic companies in that the stories are too open ended and have way to many changes that mean nothing. People clearly are into the graphic novel format since indie, manga and webcomics are receiving a huge boom. DC needs to shake up the status quo and do more self contained worlds that donít cross over unless itís absolutely necessary.itís kinda hard to follow a characters story when you have to buy Batman, batgirl, Superman, justice league ect ect just to get through the event. Itís very alienating to new readers. Also the fact that for Nightwing in particular, the writers change way too often making things every inconsistent.

    DC shot itself in the foot with NTT when the original people left. Nightwing has an amazing story arc that put him in a very good spot. It was supposed to really make him his own hero on a different path from Batman. Teen titans continues to be one of thier biggest fandoms but they do nothing with them. The reason none of the legacy characters stuck is because DC never wanted to replace the OG in the first place and didnít have a plan for their new mantels. Wally and Kyle got the lucky end of the deal as Wally became the Flash and Kyle has Green Lantern stuff. Cyborg also kinda made it out with justice league and DCEU. Nightwing, Troia, Starfire, Aqualad, Kid Flash (Wally now), Raven and Beast boy will probably never really be pushed by dc again. Iíll end my words when I see it haha

    Iím not saying Nighrwing isnít selling. Iím saying his sales are clearly not making a dent (neither are most other characters, but the fact that batfam fans read all batfam content it keeps him from being cancelled despite other series being cancelled with equal or worse numbers). There is a reason DC has bit heavily by discovery and is returning to its pre-NTT phase. Comic fans are not gonna save them. DC needs to start doing more promo to general public and shake things up like they did with NTT. I just think they donít wanna do it.

  5. #3260

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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    I wouldn't say that Nightwing was the star of NTT. He was the leader, but he wasn't really more important or relevant than other characters in that team.

    It's true that Nightwing become really independent from Batman brand in NTT, but he wasn't a solo hero either. He was part of the team and there wasn't plans for him to be a solo hero.

    DC returned Nightwing to Batman editorial when NTT had dropped in sales and popularity. In other words, this was the best thing that could happen to the character in that situation (and Nightwing even gets a solo).
    Things started going downhill when the editors left and Marv was planning on leaving. Dc didn’t know what to do. If everything went according to plans, NTT would have been different. It’s what happens when you have no safety net really. So I’m surprised. Nightwing already had a mini series planned before his solo so there were plans in the making with the NTT people. It played into the whole issue 100 thing originally.

    Idk difference of opinion but Robin/Nightwing is the face of NTT. I’m not downplaying Batman influence, but Nightwing was returned to bat-editorial because everyone was leaving. They retconned everything with NTT because of it to re-do his character since that team was no longer there. Nightwing needed to become a side character in bat mythos again and yeah that’s what they did. A ton of dc editors and writers left during that time for other options.

    I’m not sure if the solo was planned before or after bateditorial. But from the research I did find, the editors for Nightwing had some pretty interesting plans for him. I wanna believe the solo was planned before bateditorial took him back but because everyone left before they could enact it, bateditorial took it and ran. Nightwing wouldn’t have gotten a solo if it wasn’t for his popularity during NTT that’s for sure.

  6. #3261
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeNightwingGreatAgain View Post
    DC shot itself in the foot with NTT when the original people left.
    NTT had the same writer from start to finish, it was just not good anymore for the last 5 or so years. The down fall started imo with the Titans Hunt story line beginninh with New Titans #71.

    And Dick allready stopped being a main character on the NTT after the "Wedding" between him and Starfire about 30 issues before the series endet.

  7. #3262

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    NTT had the same writer from start to finish, it was just not good anymore for the last 5 or so years. The down fall started imo with the Titans Hunt story line beginninh with New Titans #71.

    And Dick allready stopped being a main character on the NTT after the "Wedding" between him and Starfire about 30 issues before the series endet.
    That’s when the editors were planning on leaving and scrapped the plans lol that’s what I’m saying. The miniseries was leading into issue 100. I’m not entirely sure when, but it was probaby original planned for after titans hunt or it was intended to be in titans hunt. That information wasn’t released but yeah the series ended in a way that wasn’t planned. DC scrambled and that’s what we got. Marv even re-did the wedding as per bateditorial instructions because they had to take Nightwing back.
    Last edited by MakeNightwingGreatAgain; 10-22-2021 at 02:42 PM.

  8. #3263
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    If Nightwing is still getting a black label it mostly we take place in the NTT. Since that's where most Nightwing stories go(Batfam)

  9. #3264
    Mighty Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Maybe the way to fix the titans would be to give them there own editorial with the Nightwing solo moved over there with wallys flash?

    Nightwing, Flash (wally), titans and TTA under the same editorial might fix that Ip. Nightwing can still show up in the batbooks but his solo is a titans book first?

  10. #3265
    Astonishing Member OBrianTallent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    NTT had the same writer from start to finish, it was just not good anymore for the last 5 or so years. The down fall started imo with the Titans Hunt story line beginninh with New Titans #71.

    And Dick allready stopped being a main character on the NTT after the "Wedding" between him and Starfire about 30 issues before the series endet.
    Something to keep in mind is that Marv Wolfman has been quite open about his scripts being changed and the editorial interference he experienced over the last few years of the title.

  11. #3266
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderNight View Post
    Maybe the way to fix the titans would be to give them there own editorial with the Nightwing solo moved over there with wallys flash?

    Nightwing, Flash (wally), titans and TTA under the same editorial might fix that Ip. Nightwing can still show up in the batbooks but his solo is a titans book first?
    Could work but the Titans have also been a dumpsterfire so I’m not sure Dick benefits from being tied to closely to them either.
    For when my rants on the forums just arenít enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  12. #3267
    Mighty Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Could work but the Titans have also been a dumpsterfire so I’m not sure Dick benefits from being tied to closely to them either.
    true but if the nightwing book was under the same editorial than nightwing wouldn't need to also be on the main team, just do its own thing but still be connected. Like how his solo currently does with the other batbooks but now with the titans.

    But I'd still prefer something new. I'd like for when jon's new generation JL forms dick is the nick fury of their generation and team. The fury to their avengers.
    Last edited by WonderNight; 10-22-2021 at 11:47 PM.

  13. #3268
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Hopefully he will be in the JL has Dc's decision was only make him appear in Batfam and Titans. On a side note Scott Synder left so him getting a black label is in question. So any good stories that can't be told probably will not . Because many characters kind of Benefit from that. While Titans is a dump people will know More and more of Nightwing. That's what you need getting him More and more known. People know Dick Grayson as Robin more than Nightwing no?

  14. #3269
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    JL is a waste of time. Rather see a new team.

  15. #3270
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Like who? A new team ? What would the team be like ?

    Also do we know even if the movie will happen ? I know the director said it's not die but that's the same with the animated series Nightwing. Wouldn't there be more stuff on them, or I guess more stuff next year for them. I mean heck rumor has it he will finally get it own animated Nightwing movie. Maybe that's how the director will get his Nightwing movie. I mean with how many years it been. I think he said he is waiting for the greenlit. Hopefully next year

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