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  1. #1051
    Mighty Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Ok so what was the steps that allowed Spiderman to get to that level and should DC change the way they go about nightwing? Instead if nightwing being dc's daredevil he should be batman meets spiderman.

    Like he has the skills/tech of batman and the tone/status of Spiderman. Also if nightwing ever does get his own corner what would you like that corner to be?
    Last edited by WonderNight; 04-16-2021 at 08:02 PM.

  2. #1052
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderNight View Post
    Ok so what was the steps that allowed Spiderman to get to that level and should DC change the way they go about nightwing? Instead if nightwing being dc's daredevil he should be batman meets spiderman.

    Like he has the skills/tech of batman and the tone/status of Spiderman. Also if nightwing ever does get his own corner what would you like that corner to be?
    They would have to do what marvel does for spider
    And that what DC does for Spider-Man

    Every few years new animation and a new live action movie
    Every generation always having a Spider-Man or batman
    That’s not gonna happen, Nightwing need to follow the Harley Quinn path, but to complete that he needs to appear in films

  3. #1053
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderNight View Post
    Right but why not? Why not as nightwing, what would it take to get there? Is nightwing just forever going to be a midcard character and never a main event character? Than why.

    What allows spiderman to work but not nightwing and can't dc replicate that for nightwing.
    Spider-man was created in an era 60 years ago where comics sold a lot more. Then over time it allowed these characters to be engrained into popular culture and become these massive media franchises. It is like that for all these big characters. Batman, Superman, Flash, Wonder Woman, Hulk and so on. They have been grandfathered in from an era of comics that doesn't really exist anymore. If you took Spider-man and erased him from history and then tried to introduce him as a new character in comics in 2021 odds are he could barely hold down one ongoing series. When you look at the last 20 or 30 years of comics neither Marvel or DC has created any new individual characters on the level of a Batman or Spider-man. So I don't think it is realistically possible for comics to ever have the kind of impact like they did decades ago. Maybe if DC had invested a ton and turned Nightwing into a solo characters in the 80s after his debut he would be closer, but I don't know.

    I mean when I think about it who are the last individual characters to really come close to the level of a Spider-man? Where they are these franchise level characters. Maybe Harley Quinn, Wolverine, and Deadpool? I can't think of any beyond that. Harley was created in the 90s but had the Batman franchise elevate her and also was helped by being the Joker's girlfriend. So she got a boost by being directly connected to the most famous comic hero in Batman and the most famous comic villain in the Joker. Then Wolverine was created in the 70s but didn't get a solo book until the late 80s. Still, he became a breakout character like 40 years ago back during an era where comics had a lot more influence, and that carried over into the 90s where the X-Men and Wolverine exploded in popularity even more.

    Deadpool is probably the most unique case. Since he wasn't created that long ago and he isn't directly connected to these other massive characters like a Batman or Joker. His popularity took off because of his very strong costume design and unique powers. When combined with his style of comedy it really caught on and his popularity started to grow where Marvel started investing more and more into the character. More books and merchandise and people kept buying them. But still, characters like this feel like an exception compared to the massive amount of comic characters out there. You could redesign Nightwing and give him a much better costume that is far more marketable, his current design I think is too simple to ever be that marketable, and also experiment with giving him some unique powers or abilities, but I don't know if this would really change the character's status that much overall. Dunno, but as the character is now he isn't ever going to have some kind of Deadpool-like breakout because he would have already had it if he was capable of it.

    I mean sure, if DC/WB decided to invest billions into Nightwing across all kinds of media then he could rise to the level of Spider-man, but that isn't realistic. Since it will always make more sense for them to just invest more in Batman as he will always bring in a higher return. Why make a Nightwing movie, TV series, animated series, or anything when Batman would be more successful? So Nightwing is going to forever be behind Batman, but at the same time Nightwing and Dick Grayson are only relevant because of his connection to Batman. If you erased everything Batman related to the character odds are he wouldn't be that successful. So it is a double edge sword. Plus Nightwing is also stuck behind Robin too. In order to establish Nightwing properly you have to establish Batman and also Robin, which is an extra step to setting up the character. It's an extra hoop to jump though. Nightwing will always be known as being the first Robin above all else, which means makes his use in other media a bit more difficult compared to more individual characters like a Spider-man.
    Last edited by Badou; 04-17-2021 at 01:05 AM.

  4. #1054
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    I know this is most people's least favorite era of Nightwing but I always thought the Renegade mask and costume was cool:





    Last edited by John Venus; 04-17-2021 at 01:55 AM.

  5. #1055
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderNight View Post
    Ok so what was the steps that allowed Spiderman to get to that level and should DC change the way they go about nightwing? Instead if nightwing being dc's daredevil he should be batman meets spiderman.

    Like he has the skills/tech of batman and the tone/status of Spiderman. Also if nightwing ever does get his own corner what would you like that corner to be?
    The thing that elevated Spidey is the same thing that elevated everyone else on the A-list; consumer demand.

    Compare the success of Harley to the success of Carol Danvers. With Harley, she was just a side character that proved surprisingly popular with the audience, so she went from a "one appearance" character to a semi-regular face in the old cartoons. The comics brought her over, and as fan demand for her increased, the company responded by supplying more content with her, until she was leading her own books and showing up regularly in larger media.

    Carol, on the other hand, wasn't elevated by demand; Marvel decided they wanted to push her as their leading female and started providing supply, hoping that consumer demand would catch up to it. And ten years later it's debatable how successful this effort has been; Carol's certainly a bigger name than she was, but is she truly among the A-list?

    The only real hope for Nightwing is that he gets a film, video game, or show/cartoon that really sets the charts on fire....and that DC responds appropriately and leans into that increased visibility. If we get quality Nightwing in larger media, it increases demand and the company can respond by increasing supply. That's really the only way to elevate a character, and DC has no real role there beyond responding to market demands with quality product. Success breeds success, and all that, but largely, it starts with us demanding more. But making Nightwing a big damn deal without the support and demand from consumers? Carol has a billion dollar film to her name and can still barely carry a single solo title, much less a full franchise.

    It wouldn't take much to make Nightwing a very successful, popular character. But getting his book to sell at the top of the charts? That means getting the very insular comic buying market to change their buying habits and that's damn near impossible to do on purpose.
    Last edited by Ascended; 04-17-2021 at 08:25 AM.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  6. #1056

  7. #1057
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    There's no way they're full after just two slices... I need at least four for a dinner.... though that's not Personal Pan... if it's Large then yeah they'll be full... and he wanted to order just two because he was broke
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 04-17-2021 at 11:33 AM.

  8. #1058
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderNight View Post
    So as long as nightwing isn't the head of his own franchise and corner of the dcu he'll never be anything more than he is now!

    The batfamily is so bloated right now why won't dc take this time to build nightwing into his own thing. Nightwing could be DC's spiderman. But they have him as just a bat support character.

    If DC focused on building nightwing his own franchise his own family his own corner in the greater dcu and push him with there other A-listers nightwing can reach his full potential.
    Not true

    If he appears in a couple live action movies it do the trick.
    S2 of Titans did nothing becuase he took all 13 episodes to don the persona.
    This summer we should hopefully get him in a quick succession from Titans, YJ 4 then Harley Quinn.

    Itís important he is made relevant while the ideas of a Batgirl movie is a priority for DC. Thatís his only chance for entry.

  9. #1059
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drako View Post
    "You wear the tightest costume of any of us. At least when I'm not drawn by Clay Mann."

    I get where Dick's coming from but I don't think there's anything Bruce can do as Bruce Wayne that he hasn't already done at this point. Actually, I guess he's acknowledging Batman is more real than Bruce Wayne is with the way he's phrasing it.

  10. #1060
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drako View Post
    This was so cute ��
    814BF26A-56EB-4C08-BB4E-2A779A27486B.jpg
    2331E835-7EC0-461E-BA8E-DD7143E704FE.jpg

  11. #1061
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drako View Post
    The shot at Didio with the "going out of business" sign was nice, lol.

  12. #1062
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    The shot at Didio with the "going out of business" sign was nice, lol.
    A lot of people think that's supposed to be George Perez rather than Didio
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  13. #1063
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    A lot of people think that's supposed to be George Perez rather than Didio
    I guess that might be it too. The name of the place would indicate it, but the going out of business thing made me think of Didio I guess, haha.

  14. #1064
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    I guess that might be it too. The name of the place would indicate it, but the going out of business thing made me think of Didio I guess, haha.
    That would be somewhat vindicating lol. Dick really needs a new rogue named Dan
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  15. #1065
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    "You wear the tightest costume of any of us. At least when I'm not drawn by Clay Mann."

    I get where Dick's coming from but I don't think there's anything Bruce can do as Bruce Wayne that he hasn't already done at this point. Actually, I guess he's acknowledging Batman is more real than Bruce Wayne is with the way he's phrasing it.
    They're doing that thing. The social media trending view of Bruce apparently not doing anything aside from punching people, connected with Tynion making Bruce less rich, and who knows maybe DC behind him making an attempt to fix his social media image.

    Like this is Bruce's Aquaman Talks To Fish reputation fixing era that they did in New 52.

    Edit: Ooh. People brought it up to Taylor and he answered

    "Well, context is important instead of sharing a single panel and ignoring the story, but I realise this is the internet, and context and intent will never get in the way of a good piece of outrage. 1/

    2/ Dick has, historically, put himself out there more in his civilian identity. Bruce has disguised his true self from the public more.
    Bruce Wayne has still done many incredible, charitable things for people. And as Batman he’s one of the greatest heroes."


    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    A lot of people think that's supposed to be George Perez rather than Didio
    Idk what Perez or Marv looks like so I also thought Didio at first but eventually realized it doesn't fit placing him there
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 04-17-2021 at 02:53 PM.

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