Dick Grayson: Robin/ Nightwing/ Agent 37 Appreciation 2021

[Morgoth]

They clearly want to keep this drama going, that's the reason why they're doing this. Cheap drama for the sake of cheap drama, because fans will react, and it will never stop.

[Badou]

It is crazy to me people thought Dick and Starfire were together. They haven't been together since the 90s. Which is for the best in my opinion given how garbage the Titans franchise has become in the comics especially for Dick. So the less tied down he is to the Titans and Starfire the better in my opinion, but that didn't stop them from having random hookups over the last 25 years. That has happened several times since the whole One Year Later storyline after Babs broke off her engagement to Dick. There are 3 or 4 instances that come to mind of that happening, but they were never dating or anything. It has been pretty firmly established that Dick wants to be with Barbara but Barbara is the one that doesn't want to be with Dick. Either because the timing isn't right or whatever, but Dick wanting to be with Babs and her not being ready has been the cycle for over a decade now.

Pre-New 52 she is the one that called off their engagement, then in the New 52 Dick is the one that asked her to come to Chicago with him, he showed up at her friend's wedding, and even in that Death Metal event it was Dick wanting to tell Babs he loved her and her not wanting to hear it. That has been the dynamic. Here Babs is the one that kisses Dick, so it is a little different than usual cycle because Babs is the aggressor. So maybe it is an indication that Babs is ready to try again? I dunno.

[Godlike13]

But, oh well. Get back to Jason Kory, or ROy, they'll treat you better than Dick, clearly.

Ya, who doesn’t want to see another bang bros hive five lol.

[Majesty]

It is crazy to me people thought Dick and Starfire were together. They haven't been together since the 90s. Which is for the best in my opinion given how garbage the Titans franchise has become in the comics especially for Dick. So the less tied down he is to the Titans and Starfire the better in my opinion, but that didn't stop them from having random hookups over the last 25 years. That has happened several times since the whole One Year Later storyline after Babs broke off her engagement to Dick. There are 3 or 4 instances that come to mind of that happening, but they were never dating or anything. It has been pretty firmly established that Dick wants to be with Barbara but Barbara is the one that doesn't want to be with Dick. Either because the timing isn't right or whatever, but Dick wanting to be with Babs and her not being ready has been the cycle for over a decade now.

Pre-New 52 she is the one that called off their engagement, then in the New 52 Dick is the one that asked her to come to Chicago with him, he showed up at her friend's wedding, and even in that Death Metal event it was Dick wanting to tell Babs he loved her and her not wanting to hear it. That has been the dynamic. Here Babs is the one that kisses Dick, so it is a little different than usual cycle because Babs is the aggressor. So maybe it is an indication that Babs is ready to try again? I dunno.

Dick didn't just "show up at her friend's wedding to tell her he loved her."

He showed up at the wedding, he stole her friend's engagement ring in order to force her to come with her. Meanwhile he tried to get her to cheat on Luke whom he was just introduced to as her boyfriend.


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Probably somewhere in the Top 10 worst things Grayson has ever done to Babs. (Number 1 is obviously what happened in Nightwing Annual #2 where it was revealed he literally slept with her after she was paralyzed and then the next morning invites her to he and Kory's wedding)

Thing is, everything she tells Dick here is true, and is a true growing moment for her character. But the sad thing is, the writers pretty much have dropped that to push them back together. Doesn't mean much of anything now as they decided they weren't going to have Babs stick to her guns.

It wasn't just "Babs wasn't ready." there's a lot of context of Dick being a (his name) and to be honest their entire relationship is filled with toxicity whether it be Pre-Crisis, New-52 or otherwise.

Not to mention that Barbara indeed did go to try to get back with Dick once, but when she came to his room he just got through banging Starfire and was taking a shower. As Starfire answered the door wearing his jacket.

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The problem with Babs always being willing to try again is that the writers keep making her fiend for toxic relationships or relationships she knows is toxic. In the New52 they actually put her in a non toxic relationship where she was legit happy. But because they want to get the cycle started again, they break them up (for no reason in particular) and have now thrust her back into Dick's arms. It's tiresome at this point.

Babs deserves better than Dick. And this constant circle needs to end. Either pick Kory or pick Starfire or have them BOTH cut ties with him romantically and have him get with someone else and actually have a stable relationship.

The problem is, no matter how much better Babs deserves, the writers never let her leave the vortex. Signifying her as being "okay" with being this 'other woman' that is 'sometimes the priority' and 'sometimes isn't' in Dick's life. Which is horrible for any kind of character growth. Particularly as she is now the one throwing herself at him.

As far as Starfire/Dick Grayson goes. They are the most often paired in media that extends beyond the comic books. Be it the Teen Titans TV Series, the DCAU, or Titans. Universally in the world outside of comic books(and its much larger reach) Starfire is paired with Dick. Heck even in the Timm/Dini Animated Universe of BTAS and Batman Beyond, Barbara says her feelings for Dick were puppy love she eventually grew out of. Even in the Arkham video games where the Killing Joke is canon, Barbara doesn't even wind up with Dick Grayson. However the problem is, the comics aren't tied to actually allowing characters to consistently grow if they just want to rehash something for the 50th time. Barbara could grow across 3-4 films and have that growth seem consistent. Meanwhile in the comics Barbara could grow across 10 years, but the comics can decide at any time to go back on it. Probably the most frustrating things about comics, or this constant loop they keep throwing Barbara into.

[Godlike13]

Babs very rarely throws herself at Dick. She has thrown herself at Jason cause he reminded her of Dick though, grossly enough. Pretty much their either relationship is Babs putting up walls Dick has to constantly hurdle over. Most of Babs relationships are doomed before they start because they either pick random dudes that are never going to stand a chance, or boring yes men that don’t create story or serve her character. So Dick has become her most prominent love interest by far and the only one they can rely on to generate any actual fan interest.
And quite frankly it makes her look like a star by having the often regarded hottest dude in their universe constantly chasing after her. I love Babs, but Dick is not desperate when it comes to romantic options. So seeing him continuously chasing her to only be half heartedly rejected over and over doesn’t really do him any favors. Dick is generally regarded as a top prospect in that area. He is DC’s male fan service character even. The issue with Babs is that there isn’t better then Dick, or its at least very hard to find someone. He’s a super hot dude, that is heroic and genuinely one of the kindest people in their universe, who also happens to be a gymnast and is beloved. And oh ya, he adores her. The nerdy librarian. It’s the reverse Perter Parker. The real problem with Babs is trying to convince audiences to accept someone other then Dick is a challenge for them. One that usually ends with them just conceding and bringing back Dick to chase after her.

[Majesty]

Babs has never thrown herself at Dick. She has thrown herself at Jason cause he reminded her of Dick though, grossly enough. Pretty much their either relationship is Babs putting up walls Dick has to constantly hurdle over. Most of Babs relationships are doomed before they start because they either pick random dudes that are never going to stand a chance, or boring yes men that don’t create story or serve her character. So Dick has become her most prominent love interest by far and the only one they can rely on to generate and actual fan interest. And quite frankly makes her look like a star by having the often regarded hottest dude in their universe constantly chasing after her.

Hottest dude.. and simultaneously the worst partner ever.

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spoilers:

https://preview.redd.it/epk8amatq0i7...=webp&04553f95

end of spoilers

Babs going back to that doesn't make her look strong or more interesting. And it only garners fan interest in the wars between people that ship Kory and him vs the people that ship Babs and him, not their actual relationship. The argument "she's with Dick because that's the only way she can really be relevant because she is on his arm" is probably one of the single worst things that can be said of her.

Meanwhile Grayson constantly shifts between multiple relationships, hurting people simultaneously in the process even after promising not to break their hearts, and still gets the reputation of being this wholesome honorable guy and an entire issue pretty much dedicating every page to going "Dick's the greatest guy ever!!". Yeah....

[Rac7d*]

They clearly want to keep this drama going, that's the reason why they're doing this. Cheap drama for the sake of cheap drama, because fans will react, and it will never stop.

It’s cheap in Titans becuase they know the same groups of people clinging to a cartoon from 19 years ago will
Flock to it. But again we know from experience anything in that comic is not final and can be undone, Batworld has final say and ripples to the rest of the universe

[Drako]

Not to mention that Barbara indeed did go to try to get back with Dick once, but when she came to his room he just got through banging Starfire and was taking a shower. As Starfire answered the door wearing his jacket.

She went to his place some time after he tried to confess to her (she listened, but faked being asleep) to try and start a relationship, not go back to him cause they never had anything up until that point.

[Majesty]

She went to his place some time after he tried to confess to her (she listened, but faked being asleep) to try and start a relationship, not go back to him cause they never had anything up until that point.

Dick's priorities

1) Try to get something started with Barbara. If it works go to 4.
2) If 1 doesn't work, go sleep with Kory till she has to do homeworld stuff.
3) If 2 wasn't enough, go sleep with/start a relationship with someone else. Then go to 4.
4) Break her heart and try Number 1 again.

[Drako]

Dick's priorities

1) Try to get something started with Barbara
2) If 1 doesn't work, go sleep with Kory till she has to do homeworld stuff.
3) If 2 wasn't enough, go sleep with/start a relationship with someone else.
4) Break their heart and try Number 1.

Do you read the books or get your information on Tumblr?

The thing of him trying to confess to Babs was years before he met Kory. He had a long relationship with Kory for years, he didn't just sleep with her.

[Godlike13]

Hottest dude.. and simultaneously the worst partner ever.

wejoe3qsq0i71.jpg
ghyevs0tq0i71.jpg
spoilers:

https://preview.redd.it/epk8amatq0i7...=webp&04553f95

end of spoilers

Babs going back to that doesn't make her look strong or more interesting. And it only garners fan interest in the wars between people that ship Kory and him vs the people that ship Babs and him, not their actual relationship. The argument "she's with Dick because that's the only way she can really be relevant because she is on his arm" is probably one of the single worst things that can be said of her.

Meanwhile Grayson constantly shifts between multiple relationships, hurting people simultaneously in the process even after promising not to break their hearts, and still gets the reputation of being this wholesome honorable guy and an entire issue pretty much dedicating every page to going "Dick's the greatest guy ever!!". Yeah....

Life of a superhero. Their romantic life is painfully complicated. Especially true for Dick and Babs, where bad timing has become the overused excuse to keep there relationship in a constant state of teasing. Neither going back makes either look strong or more interesting at this point thanks to the way DC has abuse this relationship to keep audiences on a perpetual hook. While with Dick it might create wars between people that ship Kory and him vs the people that ship Babs, with Babs there is no war. Dick is her top love interest uncontested. Since her return to Batgirl Babs has been in more relationships, with little concern, yet Dick is still routinely brought in to remind readers how he’ll still always be on her hook. Do you think thats solely for his benefit. You think the Burnside team brought him in to make him look good. Dick can be a dick, sure, but Babs is not exactly punching down with him being her Mary Jane.

[Majesty]

Do you read the books or get your information on Tumblr?

The thing of him trying to confess to Babs was years before he met Kory. He had a long relationship with Kory for years, he didn't just sleep with her.

Just meme'ing on that post.

But correct my timeline if I'm wrong.

Dick had a crush on Barbara before he met Starfire.
Dick met Starfire while he was on the Titans.
Dick had a relationship with Starfire before he ever dated Barbara.
Barbara goes to see Dick with flowers to see if a relationship can start, and finds him post-sex with Starfire.
Starfire had to go back to her planet to be in an arranged marriage.
She essentially left that marriage to be with Dick.
Dick and Kory decide to get married.
Dick sleeps with Barbara after she gets paralyzed and then invites her to he and Kory's wedding.
Their wedding is ruined by Raven who puts part of herself in Starfire, unbeknownst to the evil side of herself.
Shes goes back home.
He starts dating Barbara.
Kory comes back.
Kory and Dick start having sex again.
Dick also does stuff with Huntress.
The constant love triangle is too much for her so she leaves. Particularly as they can't stop their physical stuff whenever she's around. (okay..problematic but okay...)
Then New52 (about when I stopped reading comics consistently)
Babs is happy and in a relationship with Luke, which is non-toxic, very understanding and very supportive.
Dick returns after being dead supposedly to her friends wedding. Steals the ring to make Babs come with him and tries to make Babs cheat on Luke with him.
Babs goes 'no you're toxic' Dick goes 'say whaaaaaaaaaaaaa-'
Rebirth or something
They meet again and Babs tries to make out with him out of nowhere. (yes throwing herself at him)
Dick tells Babs he's moving on and promises not to break the other girl's heart.
The girl is Shawn. He hurts her and does indeed break her heart.
Dick does and says some messed up things and Shawn is done with him. (but now they write it that Shawn blames herself....okay.....problematic but okay.... King Shark new bestie now..)
Dick goes and sleeps with Huntress again.
Becomes Ric
Eventually Ric starts dating Beatrice.
Gets his memory back but tells Beatrice that despite the fact he was Ric he was in love with her the whole time.
Then the writers decide he isn't and have the idea of Batman's "We can't be superheroes and be happy..." But then when Batman wants to be with Selena Kyle then he's all "I CAN BE BATMAN AND HAPPY...." to his father and punching him in the face" -_- And more and more I see this is why I stopped reading comics consistently... Batman is all "happiness isn't for us Dick..." Dick is like "You're so right I'ma leave Beatrice." and Batman is all "Great. So I'm gonna be with Selena and be happy, cause I made that decision, cause I'm Batman." And then the DC Writers go "Alright let's start this whole toxic triangle again and put Dick and Babs together" and it just gets tiring.

Unless you're Superman and Lois whenever the relationship gets to "Oh we're at a place where we can be completely supportive of each other and not cause drama." is hit, the writing goes "what do you wanna do? Um... let's make something happen that causes them both realize they need to take a break, or break them up. So that way we can start the cycle all over again if we want to!" Which is the kind of writing that made me stop caring about BatCat. But again, it's all very tiring at this point. NOT(or rather stopping) getting super invested in comics storytelling and consistency, particularly when it came to how they write relationships and their constant wheels... was the best decision I ever made for my own mental health lol. But each time I check in, I'm immediately reminded of why I stopped reading them consistently in the first place.

[L.H.]

Dick and Kory are not dating.

Taylor is Nightwing's writer, so I think he knows enough.

What happened in TTA was BEFORE Dick went back to Bludhaven, before he knew about Alfred's will and everything else. Months ago, just as Taylor said on Twitter.
As far as we know, that scene could have happened even before the "wedding" in Death Metal. If you need something to blame, blame it on Sheridan, not Dick.

Also, that panel about Shawn is bullshit. She is not blaming him, @Majesty, you know? She is stating what happened. And no, it's not Dick fault he lost his memory.

[Digifiend]

That's true, as the Academy was actually established in the last issue of the previous TT run in November, before the Endless Winter event in December. Future State, where Sheridan took over the Titans, was the following month. Since that means it was published during Death Metal, it could've been before or after it.

[Majesty]

Dick and Kory are not dating.

Taylor is Nightwing's writer, so I think he knows enough.

What happened in TTA was BEFORE Dick went back to Bludhaven, before he knew about Alfred's will and everything else. Months ago, just as Taylor said on Twitter.
As far as we know, that scene could have happened even before the "wedding" in Death Metal. If you need something to blame, blame it on Sheridan, not Dick.

Also, that panel about Shawn is bullshit. She is not blaming him, @Majesty, you know? She is stating what happened. And no, it's not Dick fault he lost his memory.

No it's not Dick's fault he lost his memory. It was the messed up things he said and did to her WHICH HE ADMITTED were messed up and on him.

Dick was the one saying "I screwed up. What I did/said was crappy! It's just my unrealistic standards for myself and everyone else issues. But I can change." speech and Shawn wasn't having it.

Dick was so torn up about it he soon after went and slept with Huntress.

But now it's essentially written at least if we go by King Shark#1 like Shawn puts the blame squarely on herself now.

Biggest problem I have with Babs and Dick relationships the past few years if they are in what could be far more interesting situations and relationships, but the writers never really give them a chance to breathe and are in a rush to hurry things to drama or to an ending(even if it doesn't make any sense).

What he was doing with Shawn? I found that very interesting. But as expected the writers didn't give it that much time to breathe before they had to throw in the 'relationship changing drama' we've all come to accustomed to. But talking about these two(Dick or Babs and how they're written) Dick says its his fault, now time later Shawn says it's all her fault and she takes the blame. All that circling that comics love to do nowadays just makes my head hurt. So I'll just bow out for now lol