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  1. #3106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    but I already mentioned how Nightwing's origin story is so messy.
    "Nightwing Year One" and "Batman Adventures the Lost Years" are both pretty good origin stories imo.

    Btw. there is Nightwing-Deathstroke-story ("Nightwing: Renegade") it is just not a particularly good story.
    Last edited by Aahz; 10-17-2021 at 01:51 PM.

  2. #3107
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    Then why hasn't it worked? I think you have a very hard ceiling of what a Bludhaven can do. A Blockbuster is the best it can create after 25 years and the ecosystem hasn't really elevated the character or put him in a position to succeed like you think it can. If Taylor's run ends with Bludhaven still not really being able to create and hold great villains or supporting characters then maybe you have to start wondering if the setting itself is a problem. Where rather being this place to elevate Nightwing it is acting more like an anchor where writers get stuck in this cycle of retelling the same stories over and over by trying to "fix" Bludhaven with no real solution.
    It has worked for their purposes. They have been regularly producing Nightwing content for decades now. It’s not intended to be what elevates the character. Bludhaven is a middle ground of having a Gotham like establish ecosystem, but with more Nightwing aligned control. Now there are disadvantages and advantages to that. Of course. And it swings toward different ends of its disadvantages and advantages probably too often, but the idea of what it affords production isn’t without its merits. Bludhaven doesn’t create, that’s not its job. It’s job is to make it easier for creators to create. Which it does. Often to Nightwing’s detriment. Cause easy doesn’t mean quality.

  3. #3108
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    I would really love a stand alone Black Label book that pits Nightwing against Deathstroke.

    Being Dick's arch nemesis would be the only context I'd be interested in reading Slade in at this point. Use him there and throw Blockbuster in the trash. Blockbuster being a top tier villain isn't ever going to happen.

  4. #3109
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    I don't think that you really need A-List villains for a stand out story, Batman has several ones with villains that were completely new at the time, like Year One, Court of the Owls or The Cult.

    problem is more that they usually don't do big stand alone stories in the books the Batfamily members other than Batman.
    Sure, but I think Nightwing is now the second longest solo series from the Batman franchise next to Batman? It is at or close to 300 issues. So you figure his book would have a higher chance of having them given the volume of stories we are at now.

  5. #3110
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    It has worked for their purposes. They have been regularly producing Nightwing content for decades now. It’s not intended to be what elevates the character. Bludhaven is a middle ground of having a Gotham like establish ecosystem, but with more Nightwing aligned control. Now there are disadvantages and advantages to that. Of course. And it swings toward different ends of its disadvantages and advantages probably too often, but the idea of what it affords production isn’t without its merits. Bludhaven doesn’t create, that’s not its job. It’s job is to make it easier for creators to create. Which it does. Often to Nightwing’s detriment. Cause easy doesn’t mean quality.
    Yeah none of them as far as I can tell are thinking about elevating/expanding Nightwing beyond the usual Batfam-Titans status quo. Bludhaven itself was created so he has his own playground but can be called back if necessary.

    Only attempt at elevation after Perez Titans I know was the cancelled Nightwing/Starfire wedding where they want them to be the it couple of DCU at the time, since at that time Clark and Lois aren't married yet, and Nightwing wasn't under Batfam editorial yet.

    Since Morrison revealed that he has more stories about Batman Dick and Robin Damian, the next gen Dynamic Duo, I guess we can count that, but I don't know how long it would last even if New 52 didn't happen.

    Grayson doesn't count because they're just lucky with the creative team, and it was the only spy book at that time, so there's no expanded universe to explore.

  6. #3111
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    So this leaves the question where do you anchor Bludhaven. Because they never really give us a find of it unlike Gotham or Metropolis. They really somewhat go back and forth. I feel like the city would make sense if it was a mix of Metropolis and Gotham. Like the skyline and two how it works. Yea in Gotham it should be corrupted but we also see for the most part they are going for a Las Vegas vibe which is fine. I like the idea that the city looks clean and has low crime. but that's not all true they lie about the number and have ways in making the city look clean. That it fits with Grayson's mostly happy personality but also fits the dark origins.

    I hope one day we do get a Starfire/Dick mini series(Even if lt's not cannon) I mean there are fans who would want more Nightwing comics and people who ship those two.

    I'm hoping with an animated movie we might get Nightwing solo one.
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 10-17-2021 at 06:47 PM.

  7. #3112
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
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    It looks like we are likely to get "Robin loves Stargirl" OGN like we got with Raven and Beast Boy.

  8. #3113
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    So this leaves the question where do you anchor Bludhaven. Because they never really give us a find of it unlike Gotham or Metropolis. They really somewhat go back and forth. I feel like the city would make sense if it was a mix of Metropolis and Gotham. Like the skyline and two how it works. Yea in Gotham it should be corrupted but we also see for the most part they are going for a Las Vegas vibe which is fine. I like the idea that the city looks clean and has low crime. but that's not all true they lie about the number and have ways in making the city look clean. That it fits with Grayson's mostly happy personality but also fits the dark origins.

    I hope one day we do get a Starfire/Dick mini series(Even if lt's not cannon) I mean there are fans who would want more Nightwing comics and people who ship those two.

    I'm hoping with an animated movie we might get Nightwing solo one.
    Why do you want a stafire/Dick book? To be a gambit and rouge, mr and mrs X type? Starfire doesnt need a duo she need a solo. She has nothing to herself to anchor her in the world of DC without the Titans and insultingly Nightwing. The way fans demand for him to be with her has started to feel as if they know she cant go anywhere without him. Why has starfire continued to make earth her home ? Becasue she is a titans. But what happens when dc decides they want a teen titans brand instead, where does she go, where does she belong. Nightwing returns to DC head brand of gotham second in command. Cyborg despite live action drama hurting usage of him, would be regulated back to JL. Raven being now an adult, no longer at a constant struggle with her abilities could probably dive deeper into magic and horror genre of of DC along with JLD. But where does starfire go? What does she want? Her only notable antagonist her sister has been pacified over the years and if she is ruling over the planet(if its not blown up) then starfire is forever relived of the responsibility. She may be a 6ft plus orange alien, but doesn't receive fear or discrimination because she is SOOOOOO gorgeous so no adversity their unlike her peers. At times starfire has felt like doesn't always belong on earth but, that is only ever be from not making a life for herself out side of the titans without dick. A book or a relationship between thease two is not equal so much relies on him. People don't ask for her only THEM. Weather or not you find the relationship between Dick and Babs boring, they can be together, work together and still do solo work and lead other teams away from each other. Presently in in titans academy she has become a background character, even with her status elevated to Headmistress(a role that should be Donna's) and her only sideplot is a will she wont she with Nightwing. That can't be all she offers?

  9. #3114
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    It looks like we are likely to get "Robin loves Stargirl" OGN like we got with Raven and Beast Boy.
    I think you meant Starfire, but Robin and Courtney together might actually be kind of cute...although is she closer to Tim or Damian in age?

  10. #3115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think you meant Starfire, but Robin and Courtney together might actually be kind of cute...although is she closer to Tim or Damian in age?
    Pre Flashpoint Courtney was Tim's age, current continuity I have no idea.

  11. #3116
    Extraordinary Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    Why do you want a stafire/Dick book? To be a gambit and rouge, mr and mrs X type? Starfire doesnt need a duo she need a solo. She has nothing to herself to anchor her in the world of DC without the Titans and insultingly Nightwing. The way fans demand for him to be with her has started to feel as if they know she cant go anywhere without him. Why has starfire continued to make earth her home ? Becasue she is a titans. But what happens when dc decides they want a teen titans brand instead, where does she go, where does she belong. Nightwing returns to DC head brand of gotham second in command. Cyborg despite live action drama hurting usage of him, would be regulated back to JL. Raven being now an adult, no longer at a constant struggle with her abilities could probably dive deeper into magic and horror genre of of DC along with JLD. But where does starfire go? What does she want? Her only notable antagonist her sister has been pacified over the years and if she is ruling over the planet(if its not blown up) then starfire is forever relived of the responsibility. She may be a 6ft plus orange alien, but doesn't receive fear or discrimination because she is SOOOOOO gorgeous so no adversity their unlike her peers. At times starfire has felt like doesn't always belong on earth but, that is only ever be from not making a life for herself out side of the titans without dick. A book or a relationship between thease two is not equal so much relies on him. People don't ask for her only THEM. Weather or not you find the relationship between Dick and Babs boring, they can be together, work together and still do solo work and lead other teams away from each other. Presently in in titans academy she has become a background character, even with her status elevated to Headmistress(a role that should be Donna's) and her only sideplot is a will she wont she with Nightwing. That can't be all she offers?
    Wanting a Dick/Starfire book isn't the same as not wanting Kory to get a solo.

    There is tons of lore stuff for Kory to explore from the Vega System, Tamarian culture itself, X'hal, her brother Ryand'r and all that stuff involving the Darkstars and the Omega Men to the LEGION.

    But the relationship with Dick Grayson was a major part of her character and I think most fans feel that it's a loose end that needs to be addressed. I don't think there is any harm in an out of continuity story exploring the two's relationship and maybe bringing Nightstar back in an Elseworlds type setting.

  12. #3117
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think you meant Starfire, but Robin and Courtney together might actually be kind of cute...although is she closer to Tim or Damian in age?
    I'd support Robin-Stargirl. I don't know if Tim has landed on a label for his orientation yet but he's liked girls in the past and what young teenaged man wouldn't find Courtney the most adorable thing ever?

    Courtney is a fantastic character who needs to get more exposure. I'm glad her show seems to be doing well (I don't watch the CW so I haven't seen it) but I wish DC would allow her to go beyond the JSA's sphere of influence (especially since the JSA has been gone for a friggin decade). Let her hang with Young Justice or the Titans, if the JSA is off the board. Or Flash. Or Superman. Or Wonder Woman. Or who the hell ever. Just get her into some book somewhere!

    This is the character that launched Johns' career, really. She's beloved by fans, tied tightly to one of the biggest creators DC has had in decades, and is connected to one of the oldest franchises in comics. Why the f*ck is this kid not a bigger deal by now?
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  13. #3118
    Mighty Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I'd support Robin-Stargirl. I don't know if Tim has landed on a label for his orientation yet but he's liked girls in the past and what young teenaged man wouldn't find Courtney the most adorable thing ever?

    Courtney is a fantastic character who needs to get more exposure. I'm glad her show seems to be doing well (I don't watch the CW so I haven't seen it) but I wish DC would allow her to go beyond the JSA's sphere of influence (especially since the JSA has been gone for a friggin decade). Let her hang with Young Justice or the Titans, if the JSA is off the board. Or Flash. Or Superman. Or Wonder Woman. Or who the hell ever. Just get her into some book somewhere!

    This is the character that launched Johns' career, really. She's beloved by fans, tied tightly to one of the biggest creators DC has had in decades, and is connected to one of the oldest franchises in comics. Why the f*ck is this kid not a bigger deal by now?
    That all sounds good but the problem is that once dc puts you into a franchise you're locked in. So she locked into the jsa. This mind set really hurts characters like vixen and captain Adam or star girl because there locked down to a franchise or don't have one.

  14. #3119
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I'd support Robin-Stargirl. I don't know if Tim has landed on a label for his orientation yet but he's liked girls in the past and what young teenaged man wouldn't find Courtney the most adorable thing ever?

    Courtney is a fantastic character who needs to get more exposure. I'm glad her show seems to be doing well (I don't watch the CW so I haven't seen it) but I wish DC would allow her to go beyond the JSA's sphere of influence (especially since the JSA has been gone for a friggin decade). Let her hang with Young Justice or the Titans, if the JSA is off the board. Or Flash. Or Superman. Or Wonder Woman. Or who the hell ever. Just get her into some book somewhere!

    This is the character that launched Johns' career, really. She's beloved by fans, tied tightly to one of the biggest creators DC has had in decades, and is connected to one of the oldest franchises in comics. Why the f*ck is this kid not a bigger deal by now?
    I'm speaking in regards to the Young Justice cartoon, but I guess they haven't confirmed whether Tim and Cassie are still a thing (dear lord, he has a thing for blondes).

    Probably more viable than Billy or Atom-Smasher for Courtney .

  15. #3120
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    Why do you want a stafire/Dick book? To be a gambit and rouge, mr and mrs X type? Starfire doesnt need a duo she need a solo. She has nothing to herself to anchor her in the world of DC without the Titans and insultingly Nightwing. The way fans demand for him to be with her has started to feel as if they know she cant go anywhere without him. Why has starfire continued to make earth her home ? Becasue she is a titans. But what happens when dc decides they want a teen titans brand instead, where does she go, where does she belong. Nightwing returns to DC head brand of gotham second in command. Cyborg despite live action drama hurting usage of him, would be regulated back to JL. Raven being now an adult, no longer at a constant struggle with her abilities could probably dive deeper into magic and horror genre of of DC along with JLD. But where does starfire go? What does she want? Her only notable antagonist her sister has been pacified over the years and if she is ruling over the planet(if its not blown up) then starfire is forever relived of the responsibility. She may be a 6ft plus orange alien, but doesn't receive fear or discrimination because she is SOOOOOO gorgeous so no adversity their unlike her peers. At times starfire has felt like doesn't always belong on earth but, that is only ever be from not making a life for herself out side of the titans without dick. A book or a relationship between thease two is not equal so much relies on him. People don't ask for her only THEM. Weather or not you find the relationship between Dick and Babs boring, they can be together, work together and still do solo work and lead other teams away from each other. Presently in in titans academy she has become a background character, even with her status elevated to Headmistress(a role that should be Donna's) and her only sideplot is a will she wont she with Nightwing. That can't be all she offers?
    See your point. I actually thought a lot about a solo Starfire idea. Her other enemy can be Mirage. I thought about her actually getting a bit of hate despite being beautiful since being exotic also has it's down sides. I thought maybe Starfire does still have issues with the citdel and uses the Titans to help others be free. Maybe there are aliens tracking humans and other aliens onto Earth and Kori helps free them. We also never get to learn her religion which is important. There is some much her Tamara we don't know. They never fully have us get a grasp of their culture. It would be nice to explore it more

    I had an idea that Starfire thought about having the Titans do a Titan branch in space more specifically in Vega system. Ryand'r is one of the first members.


    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    It looks like we are likely to get "Robin loves Stargirl" OGN like we got with Raven and Beast Boy.


    Really where? Is it the Kami book ?
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 10-18-2021 at 08:36 PM.

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