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  1. #3661
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayson - The Dark Heir View Post
    That's the exact same situation Nightwing is in. It doesn't "take away" potential, because being part of the Batfamily is why we have stuff like Gotham Knights and Wayne Family Adventures, where both Dick and Jason are simply parts of the Batfamily. Both seemingly very popular in their respective mediums, both only existing as they do because both characters have the potential to be tied so heavily to the family, etc.

    You don't have to like it when it comes to Jason or Dick, I usually don't like how Nightwing is treated in Batbooks after all. It's just the thing you're asking for isn't just ignoring Jason's original characterization as Robin, which is what I was talking about earlier, but also all of his character development since 2011. Which is still reasonable, just not something I personally agree with.

    If we're going to talk about limiting characters, the Detective Comics Annual is a good example I think. On first glance, it just looks like an issue where Dick is Bruce's sidekick. Yet, the entire issue is about the impact Dick has on Bruce and on Gotham, and it's real neat. Nothing crazy, but it was nice to see Dick function as not just Bruce's conscience as he usually does, but Gotham's as a whole. Dick doesn't need to be in Gotham, and he doesn't need to be on this case. He's here because he wants to be. At least, that's the in-universe reason. The obvious reason for this is because he's the Batcharacter with the deepest connection with Bruce.

    The thing about the 'Tec Annual is that you could tell the same general story, same bones at least, with any Robin. Or even Batfamily member. I mean, you could even replace Bruce in this too. The story could've been about Dick and Steph, or Kate and Duke, etc. These characters overlap, that's just how it is. That might "limit" what stories you can tell with them, but it doesn't limit you from telling good stories. Dick is the best example really, since he has no business being in Gotham for a story like this. He shouldn't be a Batcharacter. But he is, so this story happened, and it was nice and sets up a great potential event in Shadows of the Bat. If he was a DCU or Titans character through and through, this story probably wouldn't exist.

    So yeah, overall, I don't think throwing out a character's previous characterizations is a bad thing, since it's happened before and people like the reinvented characters, I just like the Nightwing Annual for bringing Dick and Jason's past relationship back to where it used to be. Like, it's kinda sad that outside of some one-off appearances in each other's books and Bat events, the only time that was ever focused on and done even remotely well was a Lobdell issue.
    Dicks not quite in the same situation. He has a plethora of great stories and at least has a sustainable status quo. But yeah, he is part of the Bat franchise so he is going to play a part in crossovers. But at least in his own book he is the focus. Jason has no definable status quo anymore. Even if the same could be said for other characters, great, but that’s why Jason swerving in this direction is so disappointing. He had potential to be more.

    What about the version of Jason that was a clone of Dick? You want to ignore that, right? The original version. But yes your right. I am not a fan of how Jason has developed since the New 52. I feel it’s wasted his potential to be something new and different. To each his own. But to me he has become a much less interesting duller version of himself. Out of curiosity, what are Jason’s best stories since 2011. To my knowledge and everything I’ve read has ranged from mediocre to average-bad.

    I don’t mind him being mellowed out from the Under The Red Hood days but its gone too far. What’s funny is I actually thought the opening of the annual with Jason killing that car was cooler than anything he’s done since 2011.
    Last edited by Iclifton; 12-02-2021 at 09:21 PM.

  2. #3662

  3. #3663
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackJustMetMartin View Post
    Dicks' Robin costume looks better than Jason because Jason's looks too much like the New 52 Robin costume .

    Not a bad update to Discowing but is that supposed to be extra pouches attached to the Batsymbol?

  4. #3664
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    In order for Dick to not be a sidekick he can't get in the family all events without Perez and Wolfman we would never have Nightwing. They dc wanted to kill Dick. Now he is back in Bruce's shadow it's never suppose to be repeat the same line of Dick being in Bruce's shadow. It's all due to Bateditors not wanting Dick to be equal to Bruce. They also make him dumber since all the other Robins steal his skills. He gone to being independent to a sidekic. Despite how many think he is balanced because he has a Titan book means nothin when the titans can't have their own interactions with Dick or have their own big events In his and their own comics. If people actually cared for Nightwing there would be less Batfam and more Dick and titans because without many Books Bruce has they can easily just have Dick show up there with the same storyline because Bruce's storyline messes with his own storyline. So really most Nightwing fans just want want to be a sidekick because he already did the storyline of him getting out for Bruce's shadow and so you guys want the Batfam to show up but the issue is with the number of Batmanevents we can't have the Batfam show up and Dick be events it's causing his comics to mess with his own stories and cuauses him to look like a sidekick. Because we can't have but so many Batman events he can be in if we can't also have the same number of titans events. Dick is both a Titan and Batfam. You can't reject that or take that away. We need both to play apart in his comics not just in TTA or another Titan comics this is why he is all other the place because we need him for every Batman event. We can't have this. We need him to be to have other relations outside of Batfam if he is important. But it's only ever word only with Bateditors and people claiming to be fans since all the money always is Batfam when they cut off Dick starting to get other heroes in his comics. To just having Batfam. It's time to see Dc sees him has a joke and if no one cares it's time to just reboot him as Robin. Why should he be Nightwing when all the writers treat him as Robin. The only reason we got Superman and Jon is because Tom writers. If anyone here cares we need more than just one crossover lien this. We need more titans , and other heroes to crossover. If you want more of Batfam than you want his character to die. Because we already have him showing up in Bruce's books

    Instead of ruining his own comics. The best ways is just having release comics events lien fear event has their own thing so they don't have to stop storyline. Another thing another Tom is it feels Babs is the main character because Dick needs her help for everything Hero related. Also everything first more love story than heartless based. Tom said he wanted Dick to be a A-lister where is that ? We now have another crossover which likely means a pause in the storyline. I don't think Tom cares about Dick even. Dc and Wb cares Dc a low priority and we can tell


    All the Robins steal his skills and he is inept when other bat mains are with him. Y should he be Nightwing. Dick us just going to be bad. And fall into the same thing staying with the Bateditors


    I think this is all I will say. I don't see how many see how too much with one side is bad. He is a Titan respect in his comics too. When are we gonna to see a big event for a crossover with the titans too
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 12-05-2021 at 11:23 AM.

  5. #3665

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    Damn now that's a real long post just to cry about titans at end lol

  6. #3666
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  7. #3667
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    by Tom Reilly (The Thing, Thor: The Worthy)

  8. #3668
    Mighty Member Lady Nightwing's Avatar
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    That's really lovely. I love the facial expression

  9. #3669
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post

    by Tom Reilly (The Thing, Thor: The Worthy)
    Woah, love it. Really looks like the the grown up version of the original 1940s Grayson. I’ve always wanted a Nightwing run that captured the fun of Golden Age comics with a modernized run

  10. #3670
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    It's a Robins' rite of passage...

  11. #3671
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    In order for Dick to not be a sidekick he can't get in the family all events without Perez and Wolfman we would never have Nightwing. They dc wanted to kill Dick. Now he is back in Bruce's shadow it's never suppose to be repeat the same line of Dick being in Bruce's shadow. It's all due to Bateditors not wanting Dick to be equal to Bruce. They also make him dumber since all the other Robins steal his skills. He gone to being independent to a sidekic. Despite how many think he is balanced because he has a Titan book means nothin when the titans can't have their own interactions with Dick or have their own big events In his and their own comics. If people actually cared for Nightwing there would be less Batfam and more Dick and titans because without many Books Bruce has they can easily just have Dick show up there with the same storyline because Bruce's storyline messes with his own storyline. So really most Nightwing fans just want want to be a sidekick because he already did the storyline of him getting out for Bruce's shadow and so you guys want the Batfam to show up but the issue is with the number of Batmanevents we can't have the Batfam show up and Dick be events it's causing his comics to mess with his own stories and cuauses him to look like a sidekick. Because we can't have but so many Batman events he can be in if we can't also have the same number of titans events. Dick is both a Titan and Batfam. You can't reject that or take that away. We need both to play apart in his comics not just in TTA or another Titan comics this is why he is all other the place because we need him for every Batman event. We can't have this. We need him to be to have other relations outside of Batfam if he is important. But it's only ever word only with Bateditors and people claiming to be fans since all the money always is Batfam when they cut off Dick starting to get other heroes in his comics. To just having Batfam. It's time to see Dc sees him has a joke and if no one cares it's time to just reboot him as Robin. Why should he be Nightwing when all the writers treat him as Robin. The only reason we got Superman and Jon is because Tom writers. If anyone here cares we need more than just one crossover lien this. We need more titans , and other heroes to crossover. If you want more of Batfam than you want his character to die. Because we already have him showing up in Bruce's books

    Instead of ruining his own comics. The best ways is just having release comics events lien fear event has their own thing so they don't have to stop storyline. Another thing another Tom is it feels Babs is the main character because Dick needs her help for everything Hero related. Also everything first more love story than heartless based. Tom said he wanted Dick to be a A-lister where is that ? We now have another crossover which likely means a pause in the storyline. I don't think Tom cares about Dick even. Dc and Wb cares Dc a low priority and we can tell


    All the Robins steal his skills and he is inept when other bat mains are with him. Y should he be Nightwing. Dick us just going to be bad. And fall into the same thing staying with the Bateditors


    I think this is all I will say. I don't see how many see how too much with one side is bad. He is a Titan respect in his comics too. When are we gonna to see a big event for a crossover with the titans too
    There’s no DC vendetta against Nightwing. Your reading into it. He just happens to be apart of DCs most profitable franchise, nobody gets as much a push as Bruce. The only comic readers who belittle Dick and say he’s in Bruce’s shadow is other Grayson fans. News flash, 99% of superhero’s are in Batman’s shadow.

    Even in the Wolfman Perez era, your so called “golden age” for the character, he wasn’t a solo hero headlining his own franchise. It was the bat office that made him independent with a monthly book. He’s got a lot more going for him than a lot of other comic chararcters whose fan bases would be lucky to get a book that has a half way decent creative team that goes 12 issues. In fact he’s got alot more going for him than when he was headlining Titans. Now he’s got a monthly book dedicated to him and stars in multiple other monthlies. There’s talk of a solo movie and tv show. He’s one of the main characters in a video game. Our boy is getting exposure. All of this, largely possible because of his ties to Batman.

    Genuinely curious, say what you consider to be an A-list creative team was offered the character, would you prefer they write a Nightwing solo or Titans book with Dick as leader?
    Last edited by Iclifton; 12-07-2021 at 12:31 AM.

  12. #3672
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    The Nightwing annual is doing really well on Comixology and is the 2nd best seller of the week, surpassing fear state omega and the Batman and Joker annuals -
    https://www.comixology.com/comics-best-sellers

    And it seems that last month sales were also pretty good, judging by ICV2 November list -
    https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...-november-2021

    The Robin & Batman #1 and even the Robins #1 had pretty decent debut sales.

  13. #3673
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Looks like Taylor is selling real well these days.

  14. #3674

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    Really glad to see Taylor doing so well in sales, hope that means he'll stay around for the long haul, can't wait to ser his big surprise on #100

  15. #3675
    Extraordinary Member Drako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lal View Post
    The Nightwing annual is doing really well on Comixology and is the 2nd best seller of the week, surpassing fear state omega and the Batman and Joker annuals -
    https://www.comixology.com/comics-best-sellers

    And it seems that last month sales were also pretty good, judging by ICV2 November list -
    https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...-november-2021

    The Robin & Batman #1 and even the Robins #1 had pretty decent debut sales.
    Cool, i didn't expect Robin & Batman to be so high, but the boost of the first issue helps a lot.

    Nightwing was in Batman 118 briefly alongside Barbara.
    DC: Dick Grayson, Wally West, Donna Troy, Yara Flor, Titans

    Some of my favorite Mangas: One Piece, Slam Dunk, Fullmetal Alchemist, HunterXHunter, Vinland Saga, Monster, Berserk, Vagabond.
    Current reading: Jujutsu Kaisen, Chainsaw Man, Spy X Family, Kaiju Nº8, Blue Lock, Dandadan.

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