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  1. #3706
    Mighty Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    Nightwing: The Brave and the Bold

    I think that Bludhaven is in third spot by default since other cities suck even more.
    I don't really care for bludhaven but if it's nightwings home than at least make it feel different. I what to look at a picture of the city and say "oh ah that's bludhaven".

  2. #3707
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Taylor on the Titans would 100% give them the mission statement that both Nightwing and the new Superman book have. Probably paired with saving cats in trees and polar bears.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  3. #3708
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    It's armored. Why is it always armored? I already answered in the past why is it always armored yet I ask anyway.

    Yeah I'm okay with Taylor on Titans, not because I think he's good or fit my preference, but because he knows how to put a book on the map
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 12-08-2021 at 09:12 PM.

  4. #3709
    Mighty Member Avi's Avatar
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    Hmmm, I usually like Capullo's Nightwing but the glimpses of armour... At least there is no chin guard...

    Didn't expect the BL book to even be in the works anymore but if it is, good. I just wonder if it might feel redundant even it's made by Capullo and Snyder because we are basically getting "Nightwing in a Gotham without Batman" in Tec. Though plans might have changed a little, it's been a year since we heard anything.

  5. #3710

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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderNight View Post
    I don't really care for bludhaven but if it's nightwings home than at least make it feel different. I what to look at a picture of the city and say "oh ah that's bludhaven".
    I actually used to believe Bludhaven could work with some tweaks, but honestly, Dixon's and Devin Grayson's concepts for Dick have not aged well and are part of the reason why Bludhaven and many of Nightwing's stories don't work well anymore. Because these writers are operating on a status quo that wasn't even fully fleshed out or given the time to actually be worth something. Every writer comes on claiming to want to make big changes for Nightwing and plunge him towards A-List, but then use the same stories, villains and city to do it in. Bludhaven never had the same thought or time put into it as Gotham did. Dick as Batman had more staying power than Dick as Nightwing in Dixon's and Devin Grayson's run.

    While I love Dick on his own forging his own path, I also have concluded that Bludhaven is just too similar to Gotham and anytime we recycle the late 90s-early 2000 era, we are doing Gotham/Batman Lite. Dick never stays in one place. He grew up in a traveling circus. He should have stories more similar to Batman Inc in that he does globe trotting adventures. I don't mind his home base being Bludhaven, and when he isn't working for something like Spyral or Justice League, he would patrol the streets of Bludhaven, but his major stories shouldn't take place there. I mean Bludhaven doesn't even have a cast of characters. Why Donna, Wally or even Tim Drake can't move to Bludhaven, I have no idea why. Or why couldn't Dick move to some place like Star City or stay in Chicago or New York City?

    Bludhaven is just was never IT for Dick. I don't even know what even is IT for Dick anymore. It's kinda like they just throw ideas at the wall and see if it sticks. He never really grows past the past. Even his retconned past with Babs is constantly thrown in our faces with not much substance. His past with titans is consistently changed to where I question if it even matters anymore. Even his time as Robin is significantly reduced. At the rate Dick is going, I don't think he really works as a character anymore because instead of creating his own unique status quo; they are doing Batman-Lite (Dixon Era) or Spider-Man lite (Tom Taylor now). These Nightwing stories don't feel like Nightwing stories, instead they feel like Batman or Spiderman wearing a Nightwing costume. I really dont know if Nightwing can actually be fixed anymore becuase it just feels like most of the writers and the editorial teams (Titans and Batman) dont care enough about him to push him forward.

  6. #3711

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    This looks like Gotham Knights Nightwing, and given the Owls involvement, I'm guessing that's exactly what it's for.

  7. #3712
    Mighty Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeNightwingGreatAgain View Post
    I actually used to believe Bludhaven could work with some tweaks, but honestly, Dixon's and Devin Grayson's concepts for Dick have not aged well and are part of the reason why Bludhaven and many of Nightwing's stories don't work well anymore. Because these writers are operating on a status quo that wasn't even fully fleshed out or given the time to actually be worth something. Every writer comes on claiming to want to make big changes for Nightwing and plunge him towards A-List, but then use the same stories, villains and city to do it in. Bludhaven never had the same thought or time put into it as Gotham did. Dick as Batman had more staying power than Dick as Nightwing in Dixon's and Devin Grayson's run.

    While I love Dick on his own forging his own path, I also have concluded that Bludhaven is just too similar to Gotham and anytime we recycle the late 90s-early 2000 era, we are doing Gotham/Batman Lite. Dick never stays in one place. He grew up in a traveling circus. He should have stories more similar to Batman Inc in that he does globe trotting adventures. I don't mind his home base being Bludhaven, and when he isn't working for something like Spyral or Justice League, he would patrol the streets of Bludhaven, but his major stories shouldn't take place there. I mean Bludhaven doesn't even have a cast of characters. Why Donna, Wally or even Tim Drake can't move to Bludhaven, I have no idea why. Or why couldn't Dick move to some place like Star City or stay in Chicago or New York City?

    Bludhaven is just was never IT for Dick. I don't even know what even is IT for Dick anymore. It's kinda like they just throw ideas at the wall and see if it sticks. He never really grows past the past. Even his retconned past with Babs is constantly thrown in our faces with not much substance. His past with titans is consistently changed to where I question if it even matters anymore. Even his time as Robin is significantly reduced. At the rate Dick is going, I don't think he really works as a character anymore because instead of creating his own unique status quo; they are doing Batman-Lite (Dixon Era) or Spider-Man lite (Tom Taylor now). These Nightwing stories don't feel like Nightwing stories, instead they feel like Batman or Spiderman wearing a Nightwing costume. I really dont know if Nightwing can actually be fixed anymore becuase it just feels like most of the writers and the editorial teams (Titans and Batman) dont care enough about him to push him forward.
    Yeah I agree with this. One of the main problems is that his core conspet doesn't work. It's make dick into his own Batman. But it should be make nightwing into something unique that fits dicks. Nightwing should be a solo globetrotting dcu centric hero first! The city based street level story's should be for him in Gotham and bat family. Otherwise nightwing always be just another Robin. But I see a lot of what that. So it whatever!

  8. #3713
    Extraordinary Member Badou's Avatar
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    The solution is really simple. Just move Dick back to Gotham and let Gotham be his home and move on from Bludhaven or other cities. Gotham is the only city he has a deep personal connection to that has characters he actually cares about in it and is filled with villains and supporting characters readers are actually interested in. Bludhaven will never be that. It has to drag characters from Gotham to prop itself up because it can't stand on its own. All Bludahven is it a cheap imitation of a Gotham or Hell's Kitchen which makes creators write Nightwing as a cardboard cutout of a generic superhero and creates uninspired stories.

    His solo book should be split between him going on missions around the world and him returning "home" to Gotham for more street level stories. That is putting the character in the best position to succeed. He isn't anchored to a city with nothing in it like Bludahven that writers are constantly struggling to flesh out that he has to "protect" and he is free to travel or stay at home where the writer can pick and choose what they want. It allows the character the most mobility, which should be key to Dick's character. His relationship with Babs isn't impeded because Dick isn't forced to be in another city all the time, and all the fans of Dick doing globetrotting stories can get them because Dick isn't forced to be in a city as the sole hero in it like in Bludhaven. Gotham has plenty of other heroes to take up any slack, but it is also large enough where you can write solo stories for multiple ongoing series.

    The Young Justice show figured this out. They had Dick be based in Gotham while setting up missions to do around the world. They just made Bludhaven a section of Gotham, which it basically has always been anyway. So if you want to write a story where Dick is trying to uncover some mystery of the Court of Owls in Gotham, or fighting the Riddler, you can do that, and if you want to write a story where Dick is chasing Deathstroke around the world or trying to fight against some global crime syndicate you can to that too all without having to try and reformat these concepts to fit with Bludhaven. To me this is just such an easy solution.

  9. #3714
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    The solution is really simple. Just move Dick back to Gotham and let Gotham be his home and move on from Bludhaven or other cities. Gotham is the only city he has a deep personal connection to that has characters he actually cares about in it and is filled with villains and supporting characters readers are actually interested in. Bludhaven will never be that. It has to drag characters from Gotham to prop itself up because it can't stand on its own. All Bludahven is it a cheap imitation of a Gotham or Hell's Kitchen which makes creators write Nightwing as a cardboard cutout of a generic superhero and creates uninspired stories.

    His solo book should be split between him going on missions around the world and him returning "home" to Gotham for more street level stories. That is putting the character in the best position to succeed. He isn't anchored to a city with nothing in it like Bludahven that writers are constantly struggling to flesh out that he has to "protect" and he is free to travel or stay at home where the writer can pick and choose what they want. It allows the character the most mobility, which should be key to Dick's character. His relationship with Babs isn't impeded because Dick isn't forced to be in another city all the time, and all the fans of Dick doing globetrotting stories can get them because Dick isn't forced to be in a city as the sole hero in it like in Bludhaven. Gotham has plenty of other heroes to take up any slack, but it is also large enough where you can write solo stories for multiple ongoing series.

    The Young Justice show figured this out. They had Dick be based in Gotham while setting up missions to do around the world. They just made Bludhaven a section of Gotham, which it basically has always been anyway. So if you want to write a story where Dick is trying to uncover some mystery of the Court of Owls in Gotham, or fighting the Riddler, you can do that, and if you want to write a story where Dick is chasing Deathstroke around the world or trying to fight against some global crime syndicate you can to that too all without having to try and reformat these concepts to fit with Bludhaven. To me this is just such an easy solution.
    This sounds terrible. No one wants so see Dick based out of Gotham. If you want to see international stories, great, have him do those and come back to Bludhaven. He already gets bashed by Nightwing fans for being in Bruce`s shadow and being a sidekick. At least Bludhaven is his own. He can come to Gotham for crossovers but not be tied to it. If people think his book is derailed by Batfamily crossovers now, it is nothing compared to taking place in Gotham. Look how New 52 went. Gotham would cap his potential. At least you can do anything you want with the character and the city when you have him placed in Bludhaven. Younh Justice is an ensemble show. If they made a solo Nightwing show I can guarantee it would not be based out of Gotham with still operational Batman.

    The truth is you just prefer an international Nightwing. Which is fine. But Bludhaven is an equally viable route for the character.
    Last edited by Iclifton; 12-09-2021 at 05:59 PM.

  10. #3715

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    The solution is really simple. Just move Dick back to Gotham and let Gotham be his home and move on from Bludhaven or other cities. Gotham is the only city he has a deep personal connection to that has characters he actually cares about in it and is filled with villains and supporting characters readers are actually interested in. Bludhaven will never be that. It has to drag characters from Gotham to prop itself up because it can't stand on its own. All Bludahven is it a cheap imitation of a Gotham or Hell's Kitchen which makes creators write Nightwing as a cardboard cutout of a generic superhero and creates uninspired stories.

    His solo book should be split between him going on missions around the world and him returning "home" to Gotham for more street level stories. That is putting the character in the best position to succeed. He isn't anchored to a city with nothing in it like Bludahven that writers are constantly struggling to flesh out that he has to "protect" and he is free to travel or stay at home where the writer can pick and choose what they want. It allows the character the most mobility, which should be key to Dick's character. His relationship with Babs isn't impeded because Dick isn't forced to be in another city all the time, and all the fans of Dick doing globetrotting stories can get them because Dick isn't forced to be in a city as the sole hero in it like in Bludhaven. Gotham has plenty of other heroes to take up any slack, but it is also large enough where you can write solo stories for multiple ongoing series.

    The Young Justice show figured this out. They had Dick be based in Gotham while setting up missions to do around the world. They just made Bludhaven a section of Gotham, which it basically has always been anyway. So if you want to write a story where Dick is trying to uncover some mystery of the Court of Owls in Gotham, or fighting the Riddler, you can do that, and if you want to write a story where Dick is chasing Deathstroke around the world or trying to fight against some global crime syndicate you can to that too all without having to try and reformat these concepts to fit with Bludhaven. To me this is just such an easy solution.
    I agree with everything you said except keeping Dick in Gotham. Gotham is the last place I personally want to see him settle in. Main reason goes back to the point about him becoming Batman-lite. I also think it undermines his entire growth into Nightwing and wanting to branch out on his own. I say just give him a city away from Bludhaven and start from there, really. I actually once thought Boston would be great for Dick because of its culture about research in the science fields. It's a hub for tech start-ups, medical/psychology research and charities. You also cant forget the amazing conspiracies surrounding the Kennedy Family. Massachusetts has a really fun history for Dick to play off. Can't forget about it being home to both MIT and Harvard. I think dick would fit right in!

  11. #3716
    Extraordinary Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iclifton View Post
    This sounds terrible. No one wants so see Dick based out of Gotham. If you want to see international stories, great, have him do those and come back to Bludhaven. He already gets bashed by Nightwing fans for being in Bruce`s shadow and being a sidekick. At least Bludhaven is his own. He can come to Gotham for crossovers but not be tied to it. If people think his book is derailed by Batfamily crossovers now, it is nothing compared to taking place in Gotham. Look how New 52 went. Gotham would cap his potential. At least you can do anything you want with the character and the city when you have him placed in Bludhaven. Younh Justice is an ensemble show. If they made a solo Nightwing show I can guarantee it would not be based out of Gotham with still operational Batman.

    The truth is you just prefer an international Nightwing. Which is fine. But Bludhaven is an equally viable route for the character.
    No, I prefer Dick to be in a setting that actually has valuable assets that you can use for stories. Bludhaven is a wasteland of nothing that after 25 years has only produced Blockbuster, which is incredibly pathetic. Gotham is where Dick grew up, is where his actual friends and family are located, is filled with countless villains and characters Dick has a log history with, and can support plenty of solo stories from multiple characters. Robin and Batgirl had ongoings in Gotham at the same time with Batman and no one complained about it, but for Nightwing it is a problem somehow? Even Red Hood had ongoings set in Gotham where as Nightwing only had that small Amusement Mile arc be set in Gotham during the New 52. So he hasn't really been based in Gotham for an extended time in decades but people want to dismiss it.

    This entire notion that Bludhaven allows Dick's character some freedom from Gotham or Batman where you can do anything with him isn't true at all. The stories prove that isn't the case because they don't really use him like you claim they are. Bludahven doesn't protect his character or is allowing him super unique and creative stories. He constantly has to return to Gotham if something happens, or if he doesn't he gets blamed for not being there, and all Bludahven stories are the most generic and uninspired solo hero stories that you can imagine where they have to drag assets from Gotham anyway to try and turn Bludhaven into something useable. There is nothing unique about them. You think Bludhaven gives him separation from Batman, but it limits him more because it forces these writers to write him as being tethered to some city he has no actual deep ties to. So it constantly feels like he is just imitating being Batman or Daredevil all the time. In Bludhaven Nightwing isn't just a Batman knockoff but now he is a Batman knockoff in a Gotham knockoff so the similarities are compounded which makes it even worse.

    Having Gotham be Dick's home and letting him go between globetrotting and street level stories is simplest solution, because Dick's character is at his best when he has mobility. The freedom to go and do anything, but being anchored to some city that has nothing in it will always be a weight holding him back.

  12. #3717
    Mighty Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    No, I prefer Dick to be in a setting that actually has valuable assets that you can use for stories. Bludhaven is a wasteland of nothing that after 25 years has only produced Blockbuster, which is incredibly pathetic. Gotham is where Dick grew up, is where his actual friends and family are located, is filled with countless villains and characters Dick has a log history with, and can support plenty of solo stories from multiple characters. Robin and Batgirl had ongoings in Gotham at the same time with Batman and no one complained about it, but for Nightwing it is a problem somehow? Even Red Hood had ongoings set in Gotham where as Nightwing only had that small Amusement Mile arc be set in Gotham during the New 52. So he hasn't really been based in Gotham for an extended time in decades but people want to dismiss it.

    This entire notion that Bludhaven allows Dick's character some freedom from Gotham or Batman where you can do anything with him isn't true at all. The stories prove that isn't the case because they don't really use him like you claim they are. Bludahven doesn't protect his character or is allowing him super unique and creative stories. He constantly has to return to Gotham if something happens, or if he doesn't he gets blamed for not being there, and all Bludahven stories are the most generic and uninspired solo hero stories that you can imagine where they have to drag assets from Gotham anyway to try and turn Bludhaven into something useable. There is nothing unique about them. You think Bludhaven gives him separation from Batman, but it limits him more because it forces these writers to write him as being tethered to some city he has no actual deep ties to. So it constantly feels like he is just imitating being Batman or Daredevil all the time. In Bludhaven Nightwing isn't just a Batman knockoff but now he is a Batman knockoff in a Gotham knockoff so the similarities are compounded which makes it even worse.

    Having Gotham be Dick's home and letting him go between globetrotting and street level stories is simplest solution, because Dick's character is at his best when he has mobility. The freedom to go and do anything, but being anchored to some city that has nothing in it will always be a weight holding him back.
    Hey I agree with you man, Nightwing needs his freedom. But I find it funny how the people saying dick can't be based in Gotham because it takes away his independence are the same people who wants him around the bat family all the time. Let that make sense?

    Dick didn't leave the place he grew up in to get his independence from a city, he left to get his independence from Bat family!!! Lol

    Plus Bludhaven is already just Gotham with a different name anyway.
    Last edited by WonderNight; 12-09-2021 at 08:25 PM.

  13. #3718
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    We just got done with a three month event that derailed Nightwing because he had to run back to Gotham and people are still saying Bludhaven let’s him get out of Bruce’s shadow?
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  14. #3719
    Mighty Member WonderNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    We just got done with a three month event that derailed Nightwing because he had to run back to Gotham and people are still saying Bludhaven let’s him get out of Bruce’s shadow?
    Yeah can someone tell me why is he even in Bludhaven in the first place? If he isn't going to have any space between him and the family then why did he leave Gotham in the first place! What was even the point of him becoming nightwing in the first place? Was he looking for space from the city itself? Or was it Batman and the bat family!

    This is why nightwing is stuck at b list.

    DC- Dick doesn't want to be Batman, he wants to be his own man!!!

    So let's make him street level, give him a mini Gotham and have bat family as his cast!!! Genius lol.

    But I'm with Gotham and bat family if Nightwing was more unique and was more independent first and foremost.
    Last edited by WonderNight; 12-10-2021 at 12:25 AM.

  15. #3720

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    The thing is, while Gotham and Metropolis are reflections of the respective heroes who patrol the city, Bludhaven has always been a knock off of Gotham. If Nightwing has to have his own city then it has to be *his* city and not like some other characters city and Dick shouldn't locked in to just Bludhaven he should also be going to other cities and traveling abroad for missions.

    If Gotham is a combination of New York and Chicago then Bludhaven should be like a San Francisco, Los Angeles and Las Vegas. Much brighter than Gotham but with an underlying darkness at it's core.

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