Dick Grayson: Robin/ Nightwing/ Agent 37 Appreciation 2021

[Avi]

In fact I'd argue Nightwing the Untouchable by Sam Humphries, is one of the best solo Nightwing stories, which is set in Bludhaven.

Bludhaven is fine as a concept, but it's horrendously underdeveloped. He needs a cast of characters to play off.

I agree. Humphries' story is one of the best. It would be my first recommendation to new Nightwing fans if it had more consistent art.

The Blüdhaven cast is incredibly important, it makes or breaks the city for me. I went from enjoying Nightwing by Dennis O'Neil (not in Blüd) to thinking Nightwing by Chuck Dixon is a snoozefest. The story only got interesting to me again once it really built up Dick's tenants and Dick set out to clean up the BPD and it continued when Devin Grayson introduced the Tevis family.

I wouldn't like Seeley's Blüdhaven arcs at all if not for Blockbuster's new version feeling right and Svoboda.

But when I look at the Dick Grayson stories I enjoy they are still overwhelmingly out of both Gotham and Blüdhaven.

It looks like Higgin's run is retroactively getting good to fit the new narrative that it's better for him to be in Gotham.
Unless he is talking about the time Dick was Batman.

Yeah... Those were my first thoughts + Dick as Robin stories, then I wondered if there is a great obscure story I don't know about.

[...]

Its 100% ok for Dick to interact with Batfam, be in Gotham and consider Batman and co part of his family. Its the same thing with the Titans. Its ok for Dick to interact with the titans, be in Titans tower and consider Titans part of his family. But Dick's home and family was always wherever he was in the moment and whomever he was with at the time. The whole world is his home and anyone living on earth can be considered his family. I really wish writers would lean into this narrative with Dick that was established with his parents being travelers in the circus. He was always on the move since birth. He is robin because he soars the skies like a bird. He is always up in the air and never firmly planted on the ground. Dick doesnt need to be grounded, he needs to be able to fly. His family needs to be able to fly with him or stay grounded without him and understand his decisions. Its not that he is leaving them, but he needs to keep moving. Gotham, Titansfam and Batfam will always be there for him when he gets back, he doesnt always need to be with them or in Gotham.

Preach!

I mean, the city got blown up. I know there has been a few Crisis but it was a missed opportunity to revamp the city into something different. Say, a group of rich landowners bought most of the land to build casinos and sky scrapers and drove out the survivors and grieving family members of the people who originally lived there. Dick fighting a group of rich, corporate elites would be an interesting take on him.

Yep, Bludhaven doesn't need to be abandoned. It just needs to be better developed.

That's a great concept, which ones more makes me sad that the Rebirth Blüdhaven vision seems to have been thrown out of the window.

Considering how much Luthor and Dick have met over the last years, I think he would make a nice guest star among introducing actual Blüdhaveners. I think Badou had a nice idea a few months ago about Dick stepping on Luthor's toes thanks to the money he inherited.

Bludhaven has too cool a name for me to abandon completely... but that's not a city name I'd give to Dick. Bludhaven sounds like a city you give to... Azrael, maybe. The edgier Batman.

It's a very 90s name I feel

I know that it's sometimes called the Bloodhaven and Blüd is supposed to be mean blood but my mind translates it to "blüt" which then transforms into "blühen" the German word for bloom. So, Blüdhaven has less of an edgy 90s connotation for me.

[mib86]

I think the main problem with Blüdhaven is that nothing sticks; every time the lead author changes, it all starts all over again with just a few exceptions or cameos.
The city itself has also changed shape many times.
Unsurprisingly, some see Blüdhaven as superfluous, considering all of Dick's friends and family live outside the city.

I think to make the city feel really important they should start reusing characters and places from other authors runs more, even from the unpopular ones (Ric saga included: where are the other characters who wore the nightwing costume now?)

[Godlike13]

Thats a problem with Nightwing's books in general. They can't follow up on the good runs. Good runs are followed by bad runs and then they then just ultimately blow things up and repeat that cycle. And no, they don't need to reuse anything from Ric. Thats whole run is tainted. You don't need to remind the readers of the very run that drove them away. Revisit what worked and build on that. Don't waste anymore time on what didn't. Unless its to kick its when its down. Like someone is murdering those guys and you find out its Nite-Wing .

[Rac7d*]

Dick Grayson made Robin the most Iconic sidekick in comics and pop culture [I corrected that for U ]

Nightwing isn't a sidekick. He is part of Batman's Franchise yeah but that's not all he is.

It's unrealistic and unwise to divorce him from the Bat franchise when he's such a critical part of mythos.

DC just needs to do better balancing between Gotham, Blud, Titans and the larger dCU.

Nightwing should connected to all 4 just like Dick Grayson once did

What’s is the larger DCU thease days? It looks like everyone is retreating into their respective quadrant and focusing on storytelling within their smaller realms

[John Venus]

IMO, the best take on Nightwing in Bludhaven was in 'Batman Adventures #12' by Ty Templeton and Rick Burchett.








Not a Gotham knock off, no angst, no constant self doubting or comparing himself to Bruce, Dick operates in his own way and he is competent in areas that Bruce isn't. He operates in day light, participates in press conferences, does not use fear as a weapon, knocks on doors and is overall friendly with the people of the city. He is almost like the DCAU Flash in 'Flash & Substance' though I doubt he will be raking anybody's gardens anytime soon.

[Claude]

IMO, the best take on Nightwing in Bludhaven was in 'Batman Adventures #12' by Ty Templeton and Rick Burchett.








Not a Gotham knock off, no angst, no constant self doubting or comparing himself to Bruce, Dick operates in his own way and he is competent in areas that Bruce isn't. He operates in day light, participates in press conferences, does not use fear as a weapon, knocks on doors and is overall friendly with the people of the city. He is almost like the DCAU Flash in 'Flash & Substance' though I doubt he will be raking anybody's gardens anytime soon.

Ha! I hadn't seen that before - Dick In Bludhaven being like the Adam West Batman is hilarious.

[Frontier]

I forget the DCAU even had Bludhaven .

[WonderNight]

Dick Grayson made Robin the most Iconic sidekick in comics and pop culture [I corrected that for U ]

Nightwing isn't a sidekick. He is part of Batman's Franchise yeah but that's not all he is.

It's unrealistic and unwise to divorce him from the Bat franchise when he's such a critical part of mythos.

DC just needs to do better balancing between Gotham, Blud, Titans and the larger dCU.

Nightwing should connected to all 4 just like Dick Grayson once did

Who are all of these people asking for him to be divorced from the bat franchise and family? All I'm asking for is him to be more unique from all the other bats, and more dcu centric.

Nightwing currently is a sidekick, only his fans believes dc's hes his own man hype. Robin is currently more of his own man than nightwing!

[Rac7d*]

Who are all of these people asking for him to be divorced from the bat franchise and family? All I'm asking for is him to be more unique from all the other bats, and more dcu centric.

Nightwing currently is a sidekick, only his fans believes dc's hes his own man hype. Robin is currently more of his own man than nightwing!

Again what is DCU centric? What’s going on in the DCU?

Nightwing ain’t nobody’s sidekick man.

[Spideyvinnegar]

this follow-up to the events of Fear State follows Nightwing around the holiday season, avoiding attending the Bat-Family holiday party before he’s doused with Fear Toxin and forced to relive memories of his past, present, and future shown to him by three ghostly versions of Batgirl – Barbara Gordon, Stephanie Brown, and Cassandra Cain.

Preview for Nightwing's story on Batman: Urban Legends #10 out on december 14
What do you guys think ? Now "everything is canon" I'm kinda afraid they'll be bringing up something from his infamous annual #2
Also why would Dick be avoiding his family's party ?

[WonderNight]

Again what is DCU centric? What’s going on in the DCU?

Nightwing ain’t nobody’s sidekick man.

What's DCU centric? Everything thats awesome about dc comics that's not Batman, batfam or Gotham centric! A place where dick can interact with dozens of different fan favorite heroes, villains, support characters, locations and settings! A place where nightwing can have epic adventures that's not your standard bat style stories. A place where Dick can be more unique than the other two dozen bats! A place where nightwing's best character traits can shine best like Nightwing best leader in the DCU, leader of the next generation of heroes, the heart and most connected in the DCU, the icon and role model of the of the new generation! A place where dick can build his own mythos and corner, that have roots in the bat but is its own thing first!

Should Dick need to be completely disconnected from the bat? No of course not! But dick being a bat should always be secondary to his character not first!!!

If you need some small examples. The current Robin book, red hood and the outlaws and Grayson are all examples of a bat character being more of a DCU centric character first

Just make him the globetrotting team up bat character! I mean why is Bludhaven so important and what does him being so bat centric do for his character?

[Godlike13]

What's DCU centric? Everything thats awesome about dc comics that's not Batman, batfam or Gotham centric! A place where dick can interact with dozens of different fan favorite heroes, villains, support characters, locations and settings! A place where nightwing can have epic adventures that's not your standard bat style stories. A place where Dick can be more unique than the other two dozen bats! A place where nightwing's best character traits can shine best like Nightwing best leader in the DCU, leader of the next generation of heroes, the heart and most connected in the DCU, the icon and role model of the of the new generation! A place where dick can build his own mythos and corner, that have roots in the bat but is its own thing first!

Should Dick need to be completely disconnected from the bat? No of course not! But dick being a bat should always be secondary to his character not first!!!

If you need some small examples. The current Robin book, red hood and the outlaws and Grayson are all examples of a bat character being more of a DCU centric character first

Just make him the globetrotting team up bat character! I mean why is Bludhaven so important and what does him being so bat centric do for his character?

He has that, with the Titans. It’s not the Batbooks fault those books suck though. Dick is part of 2 Titans books right now. So this idea that Batman is keeping him contained isn’t really true. Problem is the place were he’s with other heroes and being a leader, those creators would rather have him job out to those other heroes like Roy Harper and highlight others then do anything with him. Even though he’s pretty much the only one that has to always be there. On the surface at least.

BTW the current Robin book, RHatO, and even Grayson weren’t very DCU centric. Let’s not create a false narrative to make your point. The current Robin book is heavily using Bat mythos, RHatO wasn’t really centric to anything but off in its own corner till the next Bat event or they needed a Batman appearance to boost sales, and even with Grayson Spyral came from Batman. Though it felt bigger I’ll give you that, but I think the formula and approach that was taken in how the stories were told made it seem more unique and outreaching.

[Aahz]

Just make him the globetrotting team up bat character! I mean why is Bludhaven so important and what does him being so bat centric do for his character?

How does Blüdheaven make him Batcentric?

That Dicks own city with his own villains and supporting cast.

Ok he has a lot of Batfamily Batcharacters at the moment, but I think that's is because Taylor is making a lot of call back to Dixons run (proably still the most popular era of Nightwing as a solo character) and because alot of fans like that.

And Globetrotting is usually also not preventing other Batcharacters from returning to Gotham for every big Batman event (Ok they might be occasionally able to skip on event, but they still part of most of them).

And in Blüdheaven there is at least a chance for Dick having at least some long term direction, RHatO got in the end basically a complete new direction every year or so.

[Rac7d*]

What's DCU centric? Everything thats awesome about dc comics that's not Batman, batfam or Gotham centric! A place where dick can interact with dozens of different fan favorite heroes, villains, support characters, locations and settings! A place where nightwing can have epic adventures that's not your standard bat style stories. A place where Dick can be more unique than the other two dozen bats! A place where nightwing's best character traits can shine best like Nightwing best leader in the DCU, leader of the next generation of heroes, the heart and most connected in the DCU, the icon and role model of the of the new generation! A place where dick can build his own mythos and corner, that have roots in the bat but is its own thing first!

Should Dick need to be completely disconnected from the bat? No of course not! But dick being a bat should always be secondary to his character not first!!!

If you need some small examples. The current Robin book, red hood and the outlaws and Grayson are all examples of a bat character being more of a DCU centric character first

Just make him the globetrotting team up bat character! I mean why is Bludhaven so important and what does him being so bat centric do for his character?

Yeah he has that, it’s with the titans, but the book sucks right now. Nothing we can do about that. At least he’s gonna start building a relationship with Superman son so we will see him in metropolis occasionally. Can I ask what is awesome about the DCU presently? Honesty I like how the Aqua and. Wonder family are coming together with their respective characters to build their centric stories the way the bat family does. I wouldn’t send Dick to intrude of their worlds he doesn’t belong their. I might agree with you if there was so big DCU even right now but nothings happening. The last big DC event made him into a damsel. So I’m cool with him being the big dog in Gotham.

[Avi]

As lacking as Taylor's execution of including the Titans and Supes has been in my eyes so far, he is showing Dick has relationships outside the Batfamily.

That said, I still think the Nightwing title should have a Brave-and-the-Bold-style back-up where Dick can team up with a wide array of other characters.

He has that, with the Titans. It’s not the Batbooks fault those books suck though. Dick is part of 2 Titans books right now. So this idea that Batman is keeping him contained isn’t really true. Problem is the place were he’s with other heroes and being a leader, those creators would rather have him job out to those other heroes like Roy Harper and highlight others then do anything with him. Even though he’s pretty much the only one that has to always be there. On the surface at least.

If only this weren't so true. Though Titans United seems surprisingly good to Dick from the previews I have seen considering it is more or less a tie-in to the Titans TV Show.

BTW the current Robin book, RHatO, and even Grayson weren’t very DCU centric. Let’s not create a false narrative to make your point. The current Robin book is heavily using Bat mythos, RHatO wasn’t really centric to anything but off in its own corner till the next Bat event or they needed a Batman appearance to boost sales, and even with Grayson Spyral came from Batman. Though it felt bigger I’ll give you that, but I think the formula and approach that was taken in how the stories were told made it seem more unique and outreaching.

Can't speak for the other books but reducing Grayson to a Bat-adjacent Spyral is equally as false of a narrative.

There's no question that Spyral was originally a concept for Batman, but it had no Bat-visuals or characters except for not-Kathy Kane, Helena, and Dick by the time Grayson came around, but Helena had nothing to do with Gotham or Bruce at that point, and Kathy Kane aka Luka Netz was a completely different character. Seeley and King basically reinvent Spyral.

During the "Grayson phase" Dick interacted with Luthor, Midnighter, Superman, and other Wildstorm and Checkmate characters, plus his own supporting cast while also featuring in Titans Hunt and teaming up with Starfire. That's more DCU-centric than Batman-centric, even with R&B Eternal coming out at the same time.

How does Blüdheaven make him Batcentric?

That Dicks own city with his own villains and supporting cast.

The fact that it has been an easy excuse to put as many Bats into his stories as possible ever since Dick isn't allowed to say "Get out of my city" anymore while also pushing him into Batman Issues for the sake of it instead of truly giving him something to do.

The question is where are these villains and his supporting cast? Even the new support characters Taylondo introduced have been overshadowed by Babs and Tim. Heartless has been twiddling his thumbs for four months but not particularly ominously. The crossover is obviously bat-centric but the Annual used a Bat villain too instead of using a Nightwing foe.

And just some villains and a supporting cast aren't enough. Higgins' Gotham arcs also had those. They even had the same connection to Dick as Taylondo's new characters have: the circus and Zucco.

Ok he has a lot of Batfamily Batcharacters at the moment, but I think that's is because Taylor is making a lot of call back to Dixons run (proably still the most popular era of Nightwing as a solo character) and because alot of fans like that.

And Globetrotting is usually also not preventing other Batcharacters from returning to Gotham for every big Batman event (Ok they might be occasionally able to skip on event, but they still part of most of them).

Well, you answered the problems people see and what might be better with your "Ok"s.

And in Blüdheaven there is at least a chance for Dick having at least some long term direction, RHatO got in the end basically a complete new direction every year or so.

RHatO had a chance to have a long-term direction as well. Hell, every book has. Blüdhaven gets a new direction every year too. It looks different the second a new writer takes over. The exception being Dixon -> Grayson and Seeley -> Humphries.

I don't think Blüdhaven is inherently bad, but it doesn't help Dick as a character either. Not since it blew up.