Dick Grayson: Robin/ Nightwing/ Agent 37 Appreciation 2021

[Konja7]

Talking about their greatest hits, does anyone remember that time they got engaged in the beginning of a crisis and when the world didn't end, she dumped with a letter? I'm misremembering that one?

I remember that story.

Although this story happen in the same comic where it is told that he slept with Barbara just before his wedding with Kori (and Barbara didn't know this either), so I prefer to ignore all that.

[Rakiduam]

I remember that story.

Although this story happen in the same comic where it is told that he slept with Barbara just before his wedding with Kori (and Barbara didn't know this either), so I prefer to ignore all that.

That's kind of the thing, they take turns but they both suck so bad that is better ignore it all.

[SiegePerilous02]

Dick/Kory and Dick/Babs both have their fair share of bad/toxic storylines, but that's no different than Clark/Lois, Bruce/Selina, Hal/Carol, Peter/Mary Jane, Scott/Jean. Comic writers are just shit at romance as a rule, and we'd inevitably get the same if they tried pairing him with someone else.

But the main thing Dick/Kory has going for it is the Wolfman/Perez portion of the Titans run, it's all down hill for the Titans in general once Perez left. Even in there, it doesn't read like a sustainable romance the way they wrote it, even Donna (who loves them both) is all "I don't know how healthy this actually is." The cartoon did a better job with Robin and Starfire than the comic ever did, IMO.

To be fair, I have understood Barbara also slut-shamed Dick when he was raped by Tarantula.

So, that's probably on writers that don't take men being raped by women seriously, not characters being toxic in relationships.

It would be nice

Of course, in B:TAS it kind of fizzled out pretty badly...

This (among many reasons) is why TNBA and Beyond are in "contested sequel" territory for me.

But BTAS is why we even have the romance to begin with, it showed up in Shumacher's much maligned movie, made it over to the comics, YJ in turn utilized it, and now it will be touched upon in the Titans show. It can all be traced back to BTAS, because a serious romance between them did not exist before that.

[John Venus]

But BTAS is why we even have the romance to begin with, it showed up in Shumacher's much maligned movie, made it over to the comics, YJ in turn utilized it, and now it will be touched upon in the Titans show. It can all be traced back to BTAS, because a serious romance between them did not exist before that.

Nope. They teased it in the Batman Family title in the 1970's.

She kissed him to shut him up because he was being patronizing (yes, it doesn't make any sense), then readers wrote in complaining about the age gap between them while others loved the idea. Then there was some mild flirting and infatuation between them. Then in later issue of Bat Fam, Dick confesses his crush to her, comparing it to crushing on a babysitter or teacher but Babs is asleep.

It was B:TAS and Dixon in the comics that picked up and ran with it. Dick confessing to her that one time would revisited in that infamous Nightwing Annual where Dick slept with her while engaged to Kory.

[Superboy-Prime]

Nope. They teased it in the Batman Family title in the 1970's.

She kissed him to shut him up because he was being patronizing (yes, it doesn't make any sense), then readers wrote in complaining about the age gap between them while others loved the idea. Then there was some mild flirting and infatuation between them. Then in later issue of Bat Fam, Dick confesses his crush to her, comparing it to crushing on a babysitter or teacher but Babs is asleep.

It was B:TAS and Dixon in the comics that picked up and ran with it. Dick confessing to her that one time would revisited in that infamous Nightwing Annual where Dick slept with her while engaged to Kory.

He really lives up to his name!

[HsssH]

I cannot understand how people think that Barbara who is equally as strong a pillar of the Bat family the dominating and property brand of DC could ever be detrimental to Dick Grayson.
They make each other stronger. They are matured season individual who are both a force to reckoned with.

People obviously have different opinions and all that, but while you cite it as an advantage of Dick/Babs pairing to me it is a clear disadvantage and main reasons why their relationship should be axed for good as fast as possible.

In my opinion characters that lead different brands shouldn't be in relationships unless they are planning to merge those brands into one. Fact that Kory does not really exist without Dick is a good thing. It means that Nightwing writer can do what he wants with their pairing and progress it without wondering about what the other people want to do with her. For an extreme example lets assume that someone decides that Dick should get a kid. You can easily sideline Kory for a year or two. Can you do the same with Barbara? Not really, she is likely to either have her own book or be part of a team book. Then maybe someone from animation (or movies) division comes in and says wait no, we are doing a movie with her and don't want her pregnant at the same time in comics.

[Godlike13]

There is good and bad to throwaway characters. Not the Starfire is a throwaway character. Yes there is more flexibility, but at the same time they are easily thrown away and so don’t garner much investment from readers. Thing is with Babs, and Dick for that matter, they are constants, and sister/brother brands for lack of a better term. They’ll be around regardless of each other but at the same time are always on hand when the other need a quick love interest or supporting character readers actually care about.

[Pohzee]

Man, Ex-Positions was a gut-punch. “Uh, sorry Kory. I can’t date you because I’m tied down to Gotham.” Absolute state of this whole thread’s conversation. lmao

[Frontier]

Nope. They teased it in the Batman Family title in the 1970's.

She kissed him to shut him up because he was being patronizing (yes, it doesn't make any sense), then readers wrote in complaining about the age gap between them while others loved the idea. Then there was some mild flirting and infatuation between them. Then in later issue of Bat Fam, Dick confesses his crush to her, comparing it to crushing on a babysitter or teacher but Babs is asleep.

It was B:TAS and Dixon in the comics that picked up and ran with it. Dick confessing to her that one time would revisited in that infamous Nightwing Annual where Dick slept with her while engaged to Kory.

I wonder if B:TAS impacted Dixon's writing of the pair at all, because I feel like his pushing and developing it so much in the comic is why it feels as strong of a pairing as it is.

Man, Ex-Positions was a gut-punch. “Uh, sorry Kory. I can’t date you because I’m tied down to Gotham.” Absolute state of this whole thread’s conversation. lmao

Kory deserves better.

[km_sus]

Honestly female "love interests" are the biggest detriment to most of the Nightwing books. Tarantula, Babs, Helena, Cheyenne Freemont - they all take a very domineering role in his books. It drives the narrative that Dick is a highly capable dumbass who needs to be pointed in the right direction by a "commander" in order to actually achieve anything. Not only does it result in Dick playing second fiddle in his own book, but the portrayal of these women come across as overtly stereotypical and sexist when most of their personality traits default to "bossy" and "smart". It devalues Dick's skills and just adds a negative portrayal to otherwise very well rounded characters.

[SiegePerilous02]

Nope. They teased it in the Batman Family title in the 1970's.

She kissed him to shut him up because he was being patronizing (yes, it doesn't make any sense), then readers wrote in complaining about the age gap between them while others loved the idea. Then there was some mild flirting and infatuation between them. Then in later issue of Bat Fam, Dick confesses his crush to her, comparing it to crushing on a babysitter or teacher but Babs is asleep.

It was B:TAS and Dixon in the comics that picked up and ran with it. Dick confessing to her that one time would revisited in that infamous Nightwing Annual where Dick slept with her while engaged to Kory.

IDK, I'm aware of the Bronze Age flirting, but a lot of it seems one sided on Dick's part with his crush, but not something Babs seriously reciprocates. In terms of Bronze age, their respective main love interests are Jason Bard and Starfire. Maybe BTAS picked up on it, but I also wonder if they (and Shumacher) were doing a composite of Babs and Betty Kane with making her the same age as Dick (if not slightly younger).

[Frontier]

Honestly female "love interests" are the biggest detriment to most of the Nightwing books. Tarantula, Babs, Helena, Cheyenne Freemont - they all take a very domineering role in his books. It drives the narrative that Dick is a highly capable dumbass who needs to be pointed in the right direction by a "commander" in order to actually achieve anything. Not only does it result in Dick playing second fiddle in his own book, but the portrayal of these women come across as overtly stereotypical and sexist when most of their personality traits default to "bossy" and "smart". It devalues Dick's skills and just adds a negative portrayal to otherwise very well rounded characters.

I think Dick is a romantic but he doesn't need to be bossed around by the women in his life.

[Rac7d*]

Titans academy was a blur no answer just hints to lead up to what looks like another bad end

[Dzetoun]

Titans academy was a blur no answer just hints to lead up to what looks like another bad end

Sheridan is one of the few Future State writers to continue with the regular book next month. He was obviously using Future State: Titans Academy to set up his run. Which is fine, as far as that goes. Certainly he is playing off Titans history, both written and animated (which fits his background as a TV writer). It was a downer, but that's the nature of the world they gave him to work with, so he had no choice but to fit his story into that frame. The objection I had was that the three layers of chronology were very confusing, and the multiple characters (many of whom we haven't really met) meant we could not get very invested in any of them and the story lacked emotional impact.

One hopes that he won't be using the time jumps in his regular run. Also, one hopes he takes time to really introduce the characters and get us invested in their personalities and relationships. One hopes, but there are no guarantees.

[John Venus]

I wonder if B:TAS impacted Dixon's writing of the pair at all, because I feel like his pushing and developing it so much in the comic is why it feels as strong of a pairing as it is.

Kory deserves better.

A chicken/egg situation. Timm/Dini were very much influenced by what was going on in the comics as much as the comics were influenced by them. B:TAS adapted some of Dixon's stories, O'Neill also consulted on the show and even wrote some of the episodes. He knew they were introducing Renee Montoya on the show and was able to incorporate her in the comics early.

IDK, I'm aware of the Bronze Age flirting, but a lot of it seems one sided on Dick's part with his crush, but not something Babs seriously reciprocates. In terms of Bronze age, their respective main love interests are Jason Bard and Starfire. Maybe BTAS picked up on it, but I also wonder if they (and Shumacher) were doing a composite of Babs and Betty Kane with making her the same age as Dick (if not slightly younger).

Here is a good break down of their relationship from the Bronze Age: https://thebatmanuniverse.net/batgirl-34/

It definitely wasn't one sided. Bronze Age Babs and 90's Babs were much stronger characters than the versions we've gotten since.

Schumacher's Batgirl was a composite of Barbara and Julia Pennyworth.