Tim Drake: Robin, Red Robin, Drake Appreciation 2021

[Veni]

"I mean with huntress wasn't her being Italian in a sense a big part of her origin?I didn't know there was another crisis event ? What is this one about."

It will lead into a bigger event in 2023
https://bleedingcool.com/comics/dc-c...event-in-2023/

[AmiMizuno]

"I mean with huntress wasn't her being Italian in a sense a big part of her origin?I didn't know there was another crisis event ? What is this one about."

It will lead into a bigger event in 2023
https://bleedingcool.com/comics/dc-c...event-in-2023/

I wonder if they are going to try and go somewhat more for Post Crisis world. Because it feels like it. I just hope this means Diana isn't going to be the Daughter of Zeus anymore

[Veni]

I wonder if they are going to try and go somewhat more for Post Crisis world. Because it feels like it. I just hope this means Diana isn't going to be the Daughter of Zeus anymore

Me too. I want her clay origin back.

[AmiMizuno]

Me too. I want her clay origin back.

It seem the only reason why is because Brian said she was not relatable without a father. So you mean to tell me I woman who got a child finally isn't relatable. This is 21 century not all kids have a mom and dad. Some have single parents have have two moms and dads.

[Konja7]

It seem the only reason why is because Brian said she was not relatable without a father. So you mean to tell me I woman who got a child finally isn't relatable. This is 21 century not all kids have a mom and dad. Some have single parents have have two moms and dads.

To be fair, Diana doesn't have a dad either. She has a glorified sperm donor.

So, Zeus could be Diana's father, but Hypolita is still a single mother.

[AmiMizuno]

To be fair, Diana doesn't have a dad either. She has a glorified sperm donor.

So, Zeus could be Diana's father, but Hypolita is still a single mother.

True. I still don't like the idea of her powers coming from Zeus.


I'm curious does John Constantine have any iconic relationships with men? We know the most popular is with Zatanna but there has to be one or two with men.

Going back to Tim. Does Tim have a type? Because that could tell us what kind of character they could make for him to date overall whether that be male or female

[VolcanikTiger86]

If the "LGBT mob" (Did that not sound homophobic in your head?) were that powerful then we would have a lot better representation instead of celebrating for the crumbs we get.

I think overall its a bit of a disservice to say its crumbs, i mean on the small screen you are overrepresented or just under depends on who you ask. Comics may not be near the small screen but i would say that crumbs was maybe the wrong word but i understand what you are getting at.
As for your question - it seems to me at times that they are people who are looking to get offended so they can dismiss what i say to serve their own ends and label them as unimportant because i'm homophobic and i'm wrong so i thought that i would make sure, if it was homophobic I'm sorry what would you prefer i say

The "LGBT mob" doesn't stir up nearly as much as the "GetwokeGoBroke/Rage/Call all representation pandering woke garbage" mob.

I think its a disservice to say that the straight crowd are the problem when both are maybe the straight crowd are a problem for the companies but the lgbt crowd are a problem for creators as discussed previously.

The LGBT don't send destructive hate mobs after comic creators months before their comics are released because they 'don't feel pandered too' that's the 'getwokegobroke' mob.

Maybe not on as large a scale but they do report stories on fanfiction sites and have them removed because they are offensive for the sole reason that they don't align with their version of what should happen

The LGBT don't have 5-6 dedicated youtubers with large followings dedicated to stirring up hatred towards anything with representation and calling it "pandering" simply for existing, that's the 'getwokegobroke' mob.

LGBT people online have caused a stir before i have a feeling that we are going to have to agree to disagree on this.

The people that ACTUALLY on a consistent basis terrorize and send hate mobs after people and stir up toxicity aren't the "LGBT" mob. It's the 'getwokegobroke' mob.

Maybe i should stop but LGBT can be as toxic as the GWGB crowd i personally believe that both are in the wrong

The same people you already know have likely made 2-3 dedicated youtube videos in a span of a few hours so they can bash the heck out of Tim Drake coming out as bisexual(or non-het at least) and send their troves of followers that get their rocks off bashing any and all representation as 'pandering', and bashing a characters existence while pretending like they actually care about it "being done right."

Some do care about it being done right for example i don't care about iceman coming out as gay I'm not a fan of the character but i would have liked that story to be about Bobby discovering it, funny enough if the story was similar to Tim's i wouldn't have a problem but no they had Jean Grey out him to me personally i would be mad AF if that happened to a friend their life their choice or another example is William clayton who came out in a scene that IMO didn't require it his half sister was suggesting that he was dating his step mom his reply god no I'm gay she is my mom, step mom, to me that scene didn't need the I'm gay comment and would have had the conversation between ollie and William more powerful as the first coming out we see on screen but no the fangirls and lgbt fans wouldn't have accepted that or the vocal ones anyway. See both crowds have moments that can be problematic

These are the people that go "Just create a new LGBT character! Stop changing established(popular) characters." but they'll have a series of videos where they bash comics that HAVE 'original new LGBT characters' and call them 'pandering/woke/nonsense' and spread a message to not support it. That is the game they play and all the while they want other people to believe that there's this "LGBT mob" that's GONNA GET YA if you don't have representation in your stories....

Haters are going to hate, no matter what side you land on that is a consistent

They get off on being the ones actually causing terror, while pointing the finger at people that don't. Meanwhile they call everybody else snowflakes while they're the ones that will make a 40 minute video within 24 hours on why it's 'wrong' for Tim Drake to be bisexual and how horrible comics are and "why manga is so much better!" essentially their argument is "Representation and the gays have ruined American Comics." and they get their legions to buy into their strawman's and have a mob mentality of hatred.

Snowflakes seems to be a universal name now, however the GWGB don't halt conversation by saying straight privilege or telling people to check their bias or calling people homophobic and or Biphobic

The fact that companies STILL DO pander to these types of people, to the extent that whenever they get something that isn't hetero they throw a temper tantrum shows how much they've been catered to by the industry in general. The fact they feel they 'lost' something because a central character isn't straight speaks volumes.

Can we agree all pandering is wrong, can that be a thing we agree on pretty please

Trust, if the LGBT mob was "so powerful and horrifying", then there'd be a LOT MORE representation than we actually get.

One i never said it was either of those things (powerful and horrifying) i mentioned fear due to a lack of creative freedom because they is a vocal portion of the LGBT/Female fanbase that will also want Tim with a guy moving forward even if he is bi he will have to have a boyfriend or the implications will be that the right girl can turn you straight because they have no idea how to write it another way.

The fact that people whom have had comics pandering to them 98% of the time feel the need to go on hate spewed rampages all over social media simply because a character of importance isn't het, speaks volumes about who the real "horrifying/hateful/toxic mob" is. And trust, it isn't the LGBT one.

That can be done as well, an example if i may before endgame i saw people say that the mcu existing for ten years and we never had a gay characetr was a disgrace that they would accept even a off hand comment anything, endgame give them a offhand comment about a gay character was their good respectful dialogue about what would come next! nope it wasn't enough a throw away comment from a throwaway character wasn't enough.
I think both 'mobs' are wrong, i have seen some of those videos and most of what they say is crap, the two points i think are right is that a small portion of people only believe that established white characters are legimate and the fact that DC will more than likely right Tim as if he is gay if he doesn't come out as gay. I also think the GWGB crowd target the company while the other side(LGBT/Female) target fans - i feel both are destructive in their own ways.

Honestly, straight girls that like "boys love" stories seem to have more power to demand same sex relationships than the "LGBT mob".

When i say this i update some of my points because it could be true.

Writers have to learn how to use the block tool and tht twitter is a very small pool.

recently Marcio Takara stopped posting DC women mini drawing he was making because some fans wanted him to draw trans characters that wasn't on his list

If you can, i still think that its bad that you can't just write your story and judge it on what it is.

Bi Constantine's most popular love interest is a woman Zatanna.
Bi Daken's current love interest is a woman Aurora.
Bi Wonder Woman and Catwoman will never have more iconic love interests than Steve Trevor and Batman.
Bi Loki came out on his show and then kissed his woman self 3 episodes later.

There's been zero backlash against any of these bisexual characters dating opposite sex members (okay maybe Loki but that was majorly because he was kissing himself). The Daken/Aurora pairing has actually been well received and Constantine/Zee is still very popular too.

Follow up if i may pretty sure we have never seen wondorwoman or catwoman date other woman, Constantine is complicated and isn't trusted not what i would call a role model and Draken is proven to be a sociopath and Loki is the actual god of lies last i checked has that changed.
Maybe its changing, maybe their is hope

Anyway my big point is to me in my headcanon unless i get hit with a bolt of creative inspiration my Tim and that is important my Tim is going to be straight and with Steph if that is okay with anyone then as i said before DC can do their thing, i will do mine and every other creator can do what they want
Don't like don't read because i will never intend to offend people but i have to go with my head canon

[Celgress]

Meh, the way I look at it, they might as well make Tim bisexual nothing else has made the guy relevant in years. Poor Tim nothing they try works. I still vividly remember how much Terry fans (myself included) were angered when Tim "stole" Terry's spot in the future. The introduction of Damian really did Tim dirty, IMO.

[AmiMizuno]

Just so you guys know there are lgbt people who dislike Tim being bi thinking it's pandering only and not being taken seriously. So it's not really only the straight crowd

[Vakanai]

Just so you guys know there are lgbt people who dislike Tim being bi thinking it's pandering only and not being taken seriously. So it's not really only the straight crowd

Do they wish that he hadn't changed, or do they wish he was fully gay instead?

[AmiMizuno]

Do they wish that he hadn't changed, or do they wish he was fully gay instead?

Wish Dc hadn't changed him. Because they feel like Dc is only pandering for money not being real about it. But they are willing to give this a chance but they still wish this didn't happen

[Veni]

Tim and Stephanie by Maru Davalos
maru_davalos_art_20210813_155534_0.jpg
maru_davalos_art_20210813_155534_1.jpg

[Triniking1234]

No clue how either point could even be taken that way. it was pretty straight forward.

1) Tim Drake has never been confirmed as straight, and him dating/being attracted to women doesn't mean he isn't bisexual. Pretty simple.
'So past stories don't matter!' unless you have a comic panel of Tim Drake going "I'm so straight! I'm 100% straight. I'm only into women no matter what people say!" then the only evidence to be stood on that he wasn't bi was "he's dated girls" which means nothing in terms of disproving someone's bisexuality. It wouldn't disprove anyone being gay/lesbian either. People get married in hetero relationships for 20+ years and have kids, but still come out as gay/lesbian later in life when they have come to terms with their sexuality.

It's why the old saying goes "It doesn't matter how much of the 'opposite sex' you dated before you came out." Lesbians have had boyfriends and husbands, Gay men have had girlfriends and wives. And it didn't mean they 'weren't really gay' when they came out.

However this isn't even the case with Tim, because he's bisexual, him dating Stephanie doesn't mean he wasn't. <--- the TLDR version for you. Don't know how you interpreted that as "past stories don't matter!".

2) There were hints and subtext given to Drake that hinted at his sexuality. And his bond with Connor was just an example of a few moments where there was a lot of that.

Can two guys can be friends without romantic feelings? Of course. Even when one or both of those guys are gay/bi. Just like a guy and a girl can be just friends no matter the orientations, and just like two girls can be. And there can also be romantic feelings or attraction between the exact same scenarios. It would be nice though if the people that scream so loud about "Two guys/girls can be super close and affectionately close without there being romantic implications!!" were as up in arms about why 95% of the time a(straight/bi) woman is in a scene with a shirtless male it's portrayed with some kind of sexual tension, even if they'd just been extremely hostile towards each other 30 seconds earlier. Oh well.

All depends on how you wish to interpret the context and the subtext. There were people that caught onto the subtext of characters like Kitty Pryde, and then there was a group of people that refused to see it as anything other than friendship because they hadn't 'outright said it'. The people that ignore that subtext existed because it was all we were allowed to have, and simplify it down to essentially 'lol shippers' whenever subtext/framing that isn't straight is potentially called out as potentially anything other than straight. Tim Drake's feelings for Connor can be interpreted as best friendship, romantic, or anything in between. But Tim's bisexuality being confirmed also means that people that read into the hints/clues/subtext about Tim Drake over the years weren't 'overthinking' and that there isn't much argument anymore that it is impossible to perceive things that way. Hurray...we might be able to finally say "There may be more to this." without having "Why must you make everything gay?! Stop reading so much into it!!" yelled at us for now. Oh joy!!

Another essay of doom and my point still isn't disproven. After decades of stories of only being romantically interested in one gender, you can still make a character gay/bi since the character never said "I'm so straight! I'm 100% straight. I'm only into women no matter what people say!" and " People get married in hetero relationships for 20+ years and have kids, but still come out as gay/lesbian later in life when they have come to terms with their sexuality."

So Kal-El who has been pining after the same Earth girl since before we were born and Hawkman who's been chasing after the same woman since Ancient Egypt can still be written as gay or bi.

What's all this "hints and subtext" nonsense with Tim and Conner?

These are comic books and you can actually see what's going on. Tim interactions with Conner, Bart and Dick or nowhere similar to what he has with Steph, Rose and Cassie. Damian's interactions with Jon is different from what he had with Djinn. There's Dick with Barbara, Helena and Starfire compared to Jason, Wally and Roy. It's pretty easy to tell in a comic book the difference between romance and friendship.

[Digifiend]

Titans is the first live action media adaptation to feature multiple Robins. Most of the general public who know the character only by the '66 show and films think there's just one Robin.

The BBC weren't the only ones to screw up either. The Sun newspaper thought they were being smart using part of the cover of Batman Urban Legends #6. Problem is, Tim's story was one of the backups and the Robin on the cover was Jason Todd!

To be fair, Stephanie in that show is really just Barbara with Stephanie's name.

She's a composite. Steph didn't skip grades and go to MIT in the comics. Steph's smart, but she's not a super-genius who would skip grades at school. The introduction to the Bat family involving her father Cluemaster is all Steph though.

[Hypo]

BATMAN: URBAN LEGENDS #9
Written by BRANDON THOMAS, ALYSSA WONG, DAN WATTERS, and SAM JOHNS
Art by CIAN TORMEY, VASCO GEORGIEV, NIKOLA ČIŽMEŠIJA, and KARL MOSTERT
Cover by KHARY RANDOLPH
$7.99 US | 64 PAGES | PRESTIGE
Variant by FRANCESCO FRANCAVILLA and RICCARDO FEDERICI
ON SALE 11/9/21

Outsiders story: “FEAR STATE” TIE-IN! The Fearful has turned the Outsiders against each other! Tim Drake has entered the fray to save the manipulated team, but it won’t be enough. The future of the Outsiders depends on the Signal, but he’ll need help…from the world of Future State. Signal, meet Future State Duke Thomas, and listen to every warning he has to deliver!

Batwoman story: “FEAR STATE” TIE-IN! Batwoman now has the help of her sister, Beth, who is currently disguised as Red Alice to hit the underground network of villains in order to trace where the Anti-Oracle is. The only problem is, all of this is too familiar for Beth…and as old habits die hard, so might this be for Beth in keeping Red Alice at bay.

Azrael story: Dead criminals are walking the streets of Gotham City, and Azrael’s faith is shaken. Is the rapture truly upon us, and will this avenging angel be called home? Or is there a more sinister and human force at work, and what warrior has been stalking Jean-Paul Valley without him noticing? Threats to Azrael’s body and soul are here, and he’ll need more than a flaming sword to stop them.

Tweedledee and Tweedledum story: After their last job with the Mad Hatter, Tweedledee and Tweedledum took their money and decided to live a quiet life…but a quiet life can be just as dangerous. Tweedledee has fallen ill, and Tweedledum will find out quickly that a pile of stolen money isn’t enough to survive in Gotham City. Will his wickeder ways prevail and see him turn to a life of crime to save his cousin’s life?

BATMAN: URBAN LEGENDS #10
Written by MEGHAN FITZMARTIN, TINI HOWARD, DAN WATTERS, and SAM JOHNS
Art by ALBERTO JIMENEZ ALBUQUERQUE, CHRISTIAN DUCE, NIKOLA CIZMESIJA, and KARL MOSTERT
Cover by BELEN ORTEGA
Variant cover by RICCARDO FEDERICI and BECKY CLOONAN
$7.99 | 64 PGS | Prestige Format
ON SALE 12/14/21

Tim Drake goes to make peace with Batman before he leaves Gotham. Superstar writer Tini Howard makes her DC debut on a Nightwing, Oracle, and Batgirls holiday spectacular. Azrael faces down the new villain THE POOR FELLOW. And Tweedle Dum has to make a grave decision.