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  1. #1291
    Ultimate Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    I’m still confused he had both parents in Batman and Robin eternal where did they go?
    That was imposter Tim the witness protection kid who disappeared halfway through Rebirth Tec.

    Everything being canon doesn't work. Moreso for characters like Tim.

    His age and past are hazy as is but one could complicate matters more by asking where did that kid go and highlight where did he go and when did he swap with real Tim?

    The Zatanna plot where he remembers everything doesn't work since the Tim that went off with Steph to find YJ was the imposter.

    I guess fans have to pick, choose and build their own preferred backstory for Tim till we are told the details. [doubt we will though]

  2. #1292
    Mighty Member KrustyKid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    That was imposter Tim the witness protection kid who disappeared halfway through Rebirth Tec.

    Everything being canon doesn't work. Moreso for characters like Tim.

    His age and past are hazy as is but one could complicate matters more by asking where did that kid go and highlight where did he go and when did he swap with real Tim?

    The Zatanna plot where he remembers everything doesn't work since the Tim that went off with Steph to find YJ was the imposter.

    I guess fans have to pick, choose and build their own preferred backstory for Tim till we are told the details. [doubt we will though]
    Yep, pretty much all of this. Pre-52 Tim, New-52 Tim, and current Tim all feel like different characters. I just treat it as such.

  3. #1293
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    That was imposter Tim the witness protection kid who disappeared halfway through Rebirth Tec.

    Everything being canon doesn't work. Moreso for characters like Tim.

    His age and past are hazy as is but one could complicate matters more by asking where did that kid go and highlight where did he go and when did he swap with real Tim?

    The Zatanna plot where he remembers everything doesn't work since the Tim that went off with Steph to find YJ was the imposter.

    I guess fans have to pick, choose and build their own preferred backstory for Tim till we are told the details. [doubt we will though]
    This is ridiculous

  4. #1294
    Ultimate Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    This is ridiculous
    It is and it's not not just Tim. I'm guessing everyone who had their history changed in during the New 52 has contradictions.
    Some like Nightwing had their history detangled thanks to a new writer on his title giving us a recap of his past.

    That's why I've given up working out ages and such. Good stories are far more important honestly.

  5. #1295
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPSparkles View Post
    Yes they were. Jason was the very 1st one to be adopted of all the the bat kid. He was adopted even before Tim. Dick was a ward but Bruce adopted him later as a n adult in Nightwing. even in Rebirth when Jason became a foster kid and Tim became a ward. Tick was still adopted

    Tim said specifically that he only took on the Wayne name because of the events with Ra's in RR so that the people at WE would accept him.
    He is talking about Pre-Crisis, Dick definetly wasn't adopted back then, there is even a scene in New Teen Titans when Bruce actually laments that he never got around doing that, plus is part of DC sort of flipfloping about the tone of Dick and Bruce relationship, if they are more like brothers or father/son. Dick adoption happened in Gothan Knights, way into Post-Crisis. Not sure about Jason, he definetly was adopted at some point, but i can't really pintpoint when.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
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    Nobody does it better by Jeff Loveness

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  6. #1296
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    That was imposter Tim the witness protection kid who disappeared halfway through Rebirth Tec.

    Everything being canon doesn't work. Moreso for characters like Tim.

    His age and past are hazy as is but one could complicate matters more by asking where did that kid go and highlight where did he go and when did he swap with real Tim?

    The Zatanna plot where he remembers everything doesn't work since the Tim that went off with Steph to find YJ was the imposter.

    I guess fans have to pick, choose and build their own preferred backstory for Tim till we are told the details. [doubt we will though]
    The Tim that remembers was not New 52 Tim. His origin has already been altered at that point to return to A Lonely Place of Dying instead of New 52.

    The concept of Rebirth-Metal-Doomsday Clock is that they're all the same characters, from Golden Age to today, that have been through reboots in story. The reboots are canon in story. Zatanna's magic just allows him to see through his past before the reboots, something that won't be possible if he just try to remember stuffs normally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    I’m still confused he had both parents in Batman and Robin eternal where did they go?
    As of now, they've been archived on Earth-52 to live with New 52 Tim and other New 52 characters and stories.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 09-22-2021 at 04:18 PM.

  7. #1297
    Ultimate Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    The Tim that remembers was not New 52 Tim. His origin has already been altered at that point to return to A Lonely Place of Dying instead of New 52.

    The concept of Rebirth-Metal-Doomsday Clock is that they're all the same characters, from Golden Age to today, that have been through reboots in story. The reboots are canon in story. Zatanna's magic just allows him to see through his past before the reboots, something that won't be possible if he just try to remember stuffs normally.



    As of now, they've been archived on Earth-52 to live with New 52 Tim and other New 52 characters and stories
    Are we sure about that? Bruce says Tim is his ward when he was in hospital after remembering with Oz. Which is true of new52 Tim not pre crisis Tim.

    We started Rebirth with New52 Tim so what happened to him?

    That guy wasn't a Tim who forgot but a different person. Did he Merge with Pre crisis Tim?
    What about Bunker? Is new 52 TT and stealing from Penguin now part of current Tim's past?

    I'm confused.

  8. #1298
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    Are we sure about that? Bruce says Tim is his ward when he was in hospital after remembering with Oz. Which is true of new52 Tim not pre crisis Tim.

    We started Rebirth with New52 Tim so what happened to him?

    That guy wasn't a Tim who forgot but a different person. Did he Merge with Pre crisis Tim?
    What about Bunker? Is new 52 TT and stealing from Penguin now part of current Tim's past?

    I'm confused.
    Superman Reborn did it.

    Superman Reborn retconned a good amount of things (like New52 Superboy and New52 Teen Titans). That's why Bunker was so confused when he appeared in Red Hood.

    Now, Death Metal makes everything more confusing with "everything is canon" (even things that contradict each other). Of course, writers are just cherry picking what they want.
    Last edited by Konja7; 09-22-2021 at 08:31 PM.

  9. #1299
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    Are we sure about that? Bruce says Tim is his ward when he was in hospital after remembering with Oz. Which is true of new52 Tim not pre crisis Tim.

    We started Rebirth with New52 Tim so what happened to him?

    That guy wasn't a Tim who forgot but a different person. Did he Merge with Pre crisis Tim?
    What about Bunker? Is new 52 TT and stealing from Penguin now part of current Tim's past?

    I'm confused.
    His history was already altered to A Lonely Place of Dying, but he's still only a ward, because at that point, that is Rebirth Tim. He's neither Pre-Flashpoint Tim nor New 52 Tim.

    The New 52 Tim was transformed into Rebirth Tim by cosmic interference (this can be different things like Dr. Manhattan, Mr. Mxyptlk, or any Crisis). Same with Bunker. Same with everyone.

    It's like this.

    There is one single timeline encompassing all of DC publications from 1938 to today.
    Within that, the timeline is broken up by reboots or Crisis, changing the people living in it and the world they live in.
    In story. Not just out of story.

    So Tim was first the 80s version, then a cosmic interference turned him into the Tim of 2011, then there's another interference turned him into the Rebirth version.

    They're different versions of a person every time that happened, but they're still one person within one single big timeline.

    Every time that interference happened, Tim remembers different things, and what actually happened is also different, since a cosmic interference alters not just memory but the physical as well.

    Normally people don't know that they have a past version since normally they wouldn't know that they've been rebooted.

    So if at one point current Tim looks at his old family picture, he'll probably see the thin and old Jack Drake instead of the chubby younger one from New 52, and he won't remember that he used to steal Penguin's money. He only remembers A Lonely Place of Dying version of his origin. There won't be a house where he keep chubby Jack Drake safe, but instead, there's probably gravestones of both Drakes. (This is just an example)

    The memory of the other versions have been locked away. Tim won't be able to remember it on his own.
    The physical part is already transformed. Tim was 17, then he's 16, then he's... whatever he is now.

    However, there are powers that can breach that limitation.

    Zatanna's magic seems to be like that, it can breach that physical limit so that Tim can look to his previous versions, something he won't be able to do if he's just remembering things like normal people.

    Then at the end of Metal, Gold Wonder Woman, who's a higher being than the Greek Gods, can unlock that memory about their past versions buried deep inside them, so they remember that they were all rebooted and transformed.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 09-23-2021 at 01:26 AM.

  10. #1300
    Mighty Member witchboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    His history was already altered to A Lonely Place of Dying, but he's still only a ward, because at that point, that is Rebirth Tim. He's neither Pre-Flashpoint Tim nor New 52 Tim.

    The New 52 Tim was transformed into Rebirth Tim by cosmic interference (this can be different things like Dr. Manhattan, Mr. Mxyptlk, or any Crisis). Same with Bunker. Same with everyone.

    It's like this.

    There is one single timeline encompassing all of DC publications from 1938 to today.
    Within that, the timeline is broken up by reboots or Crisis, changing the people living in it and the world they live in.
    In story. Not just out of story.

    So Tim was first the 80s version, then a cosmic interference turned him into the Tim of 2011, then there's another interference turned him into the Rebirth version.

    They're different versions of a person every time that happened, but they're still one person within one single big timeline.

    Every time that interference happened, Tim remembers different things, and what actually happened is also different, since a cosmic interference alters not just memory but the physical as well.

    Normally people don't know that they have a past version since normally they wouldn't know that they've been rebooted.

    So if at one point current Tim looks at his old family picture, he'll probably see the thin and old Jack Drake instead of the chubby younger one from New 52, and he won't remember that he used to steal Penguin's money. He only remembers A Lonely Place of Dying version of his origin. There won't be a house where he keep chubby Jack Drake safe, but instead, there's probably gravestones of both Drakes. (This is just an example)

    The memory of the other versions have been locked away. Tim won't be able to remember it on his own.
    The physical part is already transformed. Tim was 17, then he's 16, then he's... whatever he is now.

    However, there are powers that can breach that limitation.

    Zatanna's magic seems to be like that, it can breach that physical limit so that Tim can look to his previous versions, something he won't be able to do if he's just remembering things like normal people.

    Then at the end of Metal, Gold Wonder Woman, who's a higher being than the Greek Gods, can unlock that memory about their past versions buried deep inside them, so they remember that they were all rebooted and transformed.
    Thanks for summarizing that.
    Even understanding the "rules" I think it's a terrible way to tell a story and develop characters. The sooner this status quo is changed the better for me.

  11. #1301
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    anyway I liked Tim more today then I did last time
    but them trying to push that hes 16 makes me laugh

  12. #1302
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    The Salacious Crumbles (Leigh Tyberg and Metricula) released their song to Tim Drake not so long ago: One (1) Sidekick in Desperate Need of a Nap.

    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  13. #1303
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    anyway I liked Tim more today then I did last time
    but them trying to push that hes 16 makes me laugh
    Reminds me of Keiynan Lonsdale's Wally West.

  14. #1304
    Extraordinary Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    His history was already altered to A Lonely Place of Dying, but he's still only a ward, because at that point, that is Rebirth Tim. He's neither Pre-Flashpoint Tim nor New 52 Tim.

    The New 52 Tim was transformed into Rebirth Tim by cosmic interference (this can be different things like Dr. Manhattan, Mr. Mxyptlk, or any Crisis). Same with Bunker. Same with everyone.

    It's like this.

    There is one single timeline encompassing all of DC publications from 1938 to today.
    Within that, the timeline is broken up by reboots or Crisis, changing the people living in it and the world they live in.
    In story. Not just out of story.

    So Tim was first the 80s version, then a cosmic interference turned him into the Tim of 2011, then there's another interference turned him into the Rebirth version.

    They're different versions of a person every time that happened, but they're still one person within one single big timeline.

    Every time that interference happened, Tim remembers different things, and what actually happened is also different, since a cosmic interference alters not just memory but the physical as well.

    Normally people don't know that they have a past version since normally they wouldn't know that they've been rebooted.

    So if at one point current Tim looks at his old family picture, he'll probably see the thin and old Jack Drake instead of the chubby younger one from New 52, and he won't remember that he used to steal Penguin's money. He only remembers A Lonely Place of Dying version of his origin. There won't be a house where he keep chubby Jack Drake safe, but instead, there's probably gravestones of both Drakes. (This is just an example)

    The memory of the other versions have been locked away. Tim won't be able to remember it on his own.
    The physical part is already transformed. Tim was 17, then he's 16, then he's... whatever he is now.

    However, there are powers that can breach that limitation.

    Zatanna's magic seems to be like that, it can breach that physical limit so that Tim can look to his previous versions, something he won't be able to do if he's just remembering things like normal people.

    Then at the end of Metal, Gold Wonder Woman, who's a higher being than the Greek Gods, can unlock that memory about their past versions buried deep inside them, so they remember that they were all rebooted and transformed.
    Where did you get all this and how everything works? Did Metal explain it all or are your personal interpretation of how continuity works?

  15. #1305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Reminds me of Keiynan Lonsdale's Wally West.
    He’s a very good actor
    But Tim, is so stupid and I hate that
    He was so reckless and doesn’t seem to register that he was

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