Tim Drake: Robin, Red Robin, Drake Appreciation 2021

[The World]

If growing up means becoming deceitful, then yeah.

Pretty much. He's been getting less and less mature as time has gone on, the kid has been going backwards in life. I think one of the more understated issues with modern comics is how the viewpoint of what it means to be a great hero and what it means to be a man transferred from Superman to Batman.

[Konja7]

I really liked Tim as the schemer in Red Robin. I find that aspect pretty interesting on the character.

Maybe it's because I don't have any attachment to Tim as the everyman.

[Dataweaver]

I wholeheartedly agree it's a character flaw in the same way Bruce's distrust is a character flaw.

Seeing Tim deal with that and grow beyond that was extremely interesting.

He was a foil to Bruce in many ways.

It was a character flaw that was totally out of character from his previous portrayal. But then, a lot of stuff that happened in the 2000s involved people acting out of character.

[godisawesome]

To me, a Tim who has schemer tendencies is better than a tech-genius Tim, especially if it’s played as a flaw, and as a counterpoint to still-present problem solver portrayal - the two elements can work as being a “in balance” and “out of balance” portrayal of the same tendencies and strengths.

Part of the reason I like Nicieza’s run on Red Robin is because it wasn’t *all* scheming: Tim’s indecision and leap of faith choice with Lynx II was intriguing and hopeful, while his more diplomatic approach to Promise was a stark contrast to the manipulations he was putting in Red Star, and while Lonnie-Machin-in-and-iron-lung was clearly limiting to OG Anarchy... the character wasn’t doing anything before hand, and Tim was diplomatic with him as well.

Of course, it didn’t hurt at all to have Yost start the Red Robin book either - though he *is* still scheming there as well, albeit in a way that works out.

Times always been a bit cunning and wary - and I’d prefer those traits over trying to make him much of a tech guy. Cunning and wariness require imagination and creativity on the part of the writer. Tech-tech abilities just allow lazy writers to pull gadgets from nowhere and have Tim “front” like a genius and creative thinker without showing it.

[Frontier]

4) He broke with Steph off-panel (seriously?) and is meeting an old friend everyone forgot of. It is a gay turn upcoming? I think it may be. If you want to have a gay Robin Tim is the best candidate.
That's really incredible thinking back to the previous millenium where DC tried his best to avoid the theory of Batman & Robin as a gay relationships.
Tim himself, when was created, was immediately associated to Ariana for the avoidance of doubt. Times are changed now and maybe we are ready for this. Tim's bromance with Kon has been one of his past favorite traits and could lead to a definitive turn for the character.

I dunno, he's had enough passionate romances with women to where I would call foul, but even if he turns out to be Bi...like, will that suddenly matter? Like, the only romance people are really invested in is with Steph and Tim and Kon isn't going to happen.

They made Selina Bi and she's still pretty much Batman-sexual.

[Pohzee]

I feel like Jason and Damian could have easily been made to be gay or bi and it would've worked better than Tim given that they've had less notable female love interests. But I guess that is their way of trying to make Tim stand out.

[Dataweaver]

I find myself thinking of the first and third Robin miniseries. Recall that the narration is first person, from Tim's point of view; that is, we have an inside track to what he is thinking and feeling. And his reactions to Lynx and Lady Shiva in the first one, and to Ariana in the third, are clear indications that he likes girls: not that he pretends to like girls in order to hide his sexuality; but that he genuinely likes girls.

He's not gay; as Pohzee pointed out, at most he's bisexual. And even that has an extreme shortage of supporting evidence: compared to the number of times I've seen him think things like “she's hot” or “looking at her takes my breath away”, the closest thing you get to stuff that might possibly be interpreted as sexual interest in a guy are things like smiling when Kon makes a joke or hugging an old friend that he hasn't seen in a while.

And as Frontier said: turning him into an LGBT+ character won't help his sales. If the only thing you find interesting in a character is his or her sexuality, is not going to help.

[Lady Nightwing]

I could see Tim as bisexual but I can't see DC making a bisexual Robin in the main universe. It would help Tim stand out from his brothers though and it would probably get a lot of media attention but I don't think it would translate into sales.

[Will J.]

I find myself thinking of the first and third Robin miniseries. Recall that the narration is first person, from Tim's point of view; that is, we have an inside track to what he is thinking and feeling. And his reactions to Lynx and Lady Shiva in the first one, and to Ariana in the third, are clear indications that he likes girls: not that he pretends to like girls in order to hide his sexuality; but that he genuinely likes girls.

He's not gay; as Pohzee pointed out, at most he's bisexual. And even that has an extreme shortage of supporting evidence: compared to the number of times I've seen him think things like “she's hot” or “looking at her takes my breath away”, the closest thing you get to stuff that might possibly be interpreted as sexual interest in a guy are things like smiling when Kon makes a joke or hugging an old friend that he hasn't seen in a while.

And as Frontier said: turning him into an LGBT+ character won't help his sales. If the only thing you find interesting in a character is his or her sexuality, is not going to help.

The problem is that the current crop of writers might be fans of the characters they're writing, it's possible they're bigger fans of the characters they imagine them to be in their heads. Because, really, this is all just published fan fiction at this point.

Which is the case with Tim, in my opinion.

When Yost and Nicieza wrote Tim in Red Robin, they maintained the consistency in the character across the board while evolving him in directions they felt he would go in naturally, which is subjective. Since then, he's been handled by writers who, maybe subconsciously, write a version of the character closer to their fanon one. Which is where his sexuality comes into play. The current writer might be a fan of his as a whole, but she's clearly, at the least, toying with fanon theories that started up with Geoff Johns' TT.

You can't lay them on Dixon or Kesel.

Fixing Tim isn't a hard thing to do, either.

Get him away from the Bat Universe.

Return some of the qualities that were stripmined from him, like a family(Dana is still around, I think). Jack was an archaeologist, so maybe Tim should visit Hawkman's world. Reunite him with Shiva, and if he stays in the tights business, give him a name like Red Dragon or something due to his association with Shiva. Whether the audience buys it or not is hard to say.

For me, thanks to this Omniverse deal, the end of Red Robin continued on from there in another universe, because that was cancelled in the build up to the New 52.

[Frontier]

I could see Tim as bisexual but I can't see DC making a bisexual Robin in the main universe. It would help Tim stand out from his brothers though and it would probably get a lot of media attention but I don't think it would translate into sales.

Honestly I feel like there's better ways for Tim to stand out than being bisexual.

Like, is being bisexual going to matter more than his character? His relationship with his family? With Steph?

[Kid Devil]

I could see Tim as bisexual but I can't see DC making a bisexual Robin in the main universe. It would help Tim stand out from his brothers though and it would probably get a lot of media attention but I don't think it would translate into sales.

Honestly, Tim has always been a straight icon to me. I read the Robin series growing up and even though I wouldn't have admitted it as a kid I loved it when Tim would go out on his crime fighting dates with Stephanie and was a big shipper of those two. Just can't imagine him being bi.

[Aahz]

I feel like Jason and Damian could have easily been made to be gay or bi and it would've worked better than Tim given that they've had less notable female love interests. But I guess that is their way of trying to make Tim stand out.

I think Jason had enough female love interest at this point that gay is of the table.

And since in Jasons case it would be pretty likely just another source of angst, or would than suddenly become he reason why he is the "angry one", I think he is probably the worst character to do this.

[Aahz]

I could see Tim as bisexual but I can't see DC making a bisexual Robin in the main universe. It would help Tim stand out from his brothers though and it would probably get a lot of media attention but I don't think it would translate into sales.

It would probably also create in a massive backlash...

[dietrich]

It would probably also create in a massive backlash...

Or it might generate interest. Hopefully the latter.

From the solicits for the rest of the story I'm willing to bet Tim is coming out. [likely why Tynion is so excited]

Sadly i don't think it'll do much to boost his popularity.
Gay doesn't = interesting and that's me speaking honestly as a gay man.

DC shou;d forego the gimmicks and take Tim back to basics.

Someone here said that Dc is ashamed of him and don't see him as cool but that's subjective. An entire generation grewup thinking tim was cool. A lot of that generation still stan him.

Update him sure, tweek him fine but don't forget what his fans liked about him in the 1st place.

[Lady Nightwing]

Honestly I feel like there's better ways for Tim to stand out than being bisexual.

Like, is being bisexual going to matter more than his character? His relationship with his family? With Steph?

He's been floundering for years. I'd prefer a more sustainable and thought out approach but it would be maybe the quickest boost to his profile that DC could do. Tim's been mentioned more times on my social media because of those panels than he has in years. It's not ideal, a bit reminiscent of Babs Burnside costume. Upped her public profile, wasn't particularly great for character development.

Honestly, Tim has always been a straight icon to me. I read the Robin series growing up and even though I wouldn't have admitted it as a kid I loved it when Tim would go out on his crime fighting dates with Stephanie and was a big shipper of those two. Just can't imagine him being bi.

Huh, Tim has always come off a bit misogynistic to me. He's pretty condescending to Stephanie at times and I remember he had a bit of a melt down when Arianna dyed her hair. I mean, you make allowances for the time period and the writer but I never picture him as particularly good with women. Full disclosure, I haven't read his entire run though.

It would probably also create in a massive backlash...

I could easily see that happening too. There wasn't much backlash when they made the Sirens bi but it would be different for a male character. To a large, vocal contingent of fans anyway