Tim Drake: Robin, Red Robin, Drake Appreciation 2021

[Light of Justice]

Tim Drake by Travis Moore

[Restingvoice]

I wanna... wait, when was that drawn?

[batnbreakfast]

Was there an in-story reason for Tim not going after Black Mask post Wargames?

[godisawesome]

Was there an in-story reason for Tim not going after Black Mask post Wargames?

Well, his dad was killed almost immediately afterwards, and he wound up in Blüdhaven with Cass after that, before things deteriorated even further before he could react; Infinite Crisis comes in right behind that and sees his best friend killed as well, before a Bruce goes on a year-long sabbatical with him and Dick, before coming back to find Cass both evil *and* hitting on him.

I suppose in-universe, it could be seen as him simply being too busy, because out of universe, the Bat-family was being ragdolled a bit by the wider DCU editorial.

[Konja7]

Well, his dad was killed almost immediately afterwards, and he wound up in Blüdhaven with Cass after that, before things deteriorated even further before he could react; Infinite Crisis comes in right behind that and sees his best friend killed as well, before a Bruce goes on a year-long sabbatical with him and Dick, before coming back to find Cass both evil *and* hitting on him.

I suppose in-universe, it could be seen as him simply being too busy, because out of universe, the Bat-family was being ragdolled a bit by the wider DCU editorial.

Also, I've understood Black Mask was killed at the end of War Games.

[godisawesome]

Also, I've understood Black Mask was killed at the end of War Games.

Not quite; Black Mask made it past Wargames and through the Under the Hood arc in Batman. He then got killed by Catwoman somewhere around the time of Infinite Crisis.

So, I guess you could say he was too busy, and by the time he had the freedom to pursue his own interests, Sionis was dead.

[Digifiend]

I think it's the Rebirth Red Robin suit.

Jason, Damian and Steph are all also in outdated costumes - I would imagine this is set during Seeley's Nightwing run.

[Dataweaver]

Not quite; Black Mask made it past Wargames and through the Under the Hood arc in Batman. He then got killed by Catwoman somewhere around the time of Infinite Crisis.

So, I guess you could say he was too busy, and by the time he had the freedom to pursue his own interests, Sionis was dead.

And deservedly so. I mean, what he did to Stephanie was bad enough as is; what he did to Selina's family made that pale in comparison.

All that said, the Doylean reason was that the writing than didn't want to dwell on Stephanie any longer than they had to. Oddly, the man who tends to get the most blame for what happened to her, the writer for Robin, actually was one of the few in the Bat department to actually go to bat for her. The guy at the top (Didio, I believe) had it out for her.

As such, right after War Games and Identity Crisis decimated Tim's supporting cast, almost nothing was done in terms of Tim coping with his losses; instead, he immediately launched into a (short-lived) story arc involving him joining a paramilitary group headed by a guy calling himself the Veteran (IIRC) which lasted right up to Infinite Crisis and the obliteration of Bludhaven and the last traces of Tim's family (his stepmother).

And yes, this was then followed up by One Year Later, where Cass was recast as evil and chatty. Tim didn't revisit anything involving the losses he had suffered (other than a one-panel shot of him in the immediate wake of Bart's death; let's see: at that point, his recent personal death tally was Stephanie, Jack, his stepmother, Conner, and Bart) until Chuck Dozen came back to the title and brought Stephanie back. I think that this was after Didio had left the Bat office to spread his policy of “controversy sells” to the whole of the DCU.

Where was I? Oh yeah; it wasn't until Dixon's return that Stephanie's existence was even acknowledged again; and by then, Black Mask was long since gone. As I said at the start of this rant, the death that he got was well deserved. I'd say that it would have been better if Tim had gone after him right away, thus indirectly saving Selina's sister and brother-in-law; but what would have been better still would have been is the writing team had gone with Willingham's suggestion and not killed Stephanie off to begin with.

Of course, then you would have had the tension of Tim and Stephanie competing for the role of Robin. A competition that Stephanie would have lost at the time, as she was still mostly seen as “Tim's girlfriend” rather than a heroine in her own right.

[godisawesome]

And deservedly so. I mean, what he did to Stephanie was bad enough as is; what he did to Selina's family made that pale in comparison.

All that said, the Doylean reason was that the writing than didn't want to dwell on Stephanie any longer than they had to. Oddly, the man who tends to get the most blame for what happened to her, the writer for Robin, actually was one of the few in the Bat department to actually go to bat for her. The guy at the top (Didio, I believe) had it out for her.

As such, right after War Games and Identity Crisis decimated Tim's supporting cast, almost nothing was done in terms of Tim coping with his losses; instead, he immediately launched into a (short-lived) story arc involving him joining a paramilitary group headed by a guy calling himself the Veteran (IIRC) which lasted right up to Infinite Crisis and the obliteration of Bludhaven and the last traces of Tim's family (his stepmother).

And yes, this was then followed up by One Year Later, where Cass was recast as evil and chatty. Tim didn't revisit anything involving the losses he had suffered (other than a one-panel shot of him in the immediate wake of Bart's death; let's see: at that point, his recent personal death tally was Stephanie, Jack, his stepmother, Conner, and Bart) until Chuck Dozen came back to the title and brought Stephanie back. I think that this was after Didio had left the Bat office to spread his policy of “controversy sells” to the whole of the DCU.

Where was I? Oh yeah; it wasn't until Dixon's return that Stephanie's existence was even acknowledged again; and by then, Black Mask was long since gone. As I said at the start of this rant, the death that he got was well deserved. I'd say that it would have been better if Tim had gone after him right away, thus indirectly saving Selina's sister and brother-in-law; but what would have been better still would have been is the writing team had gone with Willingham's suggestion and not killed Stephanie off to begin with.

Of course, then you would have had the tension of Tim and Stephanie competing for the role of Robin. A competition that Stephanie would have lost at the time, as she was still mostly seen as “Tim's girlfriend” rather than a heroine in her own right.

Yeah, a lot of that was just pure chaos caused by the whims of the editors, but, uh, was Didio ever specifically in charge of the Batman books at the time, or was he in charge of multiple “families?”

[Dataweaver]

I know that Didio's name hit the covers of the Robin title as the editor starting with Bill Willingham's first issue. I don't know what other titles there were where he was credited as editor; I wasn't paying that much attention to the editors at the time. But he was definitely directly responsible for Robin at the time of the War Games fiasco.

[batnbreakfast]

Where was I? Oh yeah; it wasn't until Dixon's return that Stephanie's existence was even acknowledged again; and by then, Black Mask was long since gone. As I said at the start of this rant, the death that he got was well deserved. I'd say that it would have been better if Tim had gone after him right away, thus indirectly saving Selina's sister and brother-in-law; but what would have been better still would have been is the writing team had gone with Willingham's suggestion and not killed Stephanie off to begin with

He wouldn't have saved Selina's family (a small nitpick) since that happened earlier. Black Mask vs Catwoman was what made BM popular to begin with and set him up as villain for Wargames and Under the Hood.

The IdentityCrisis/Wargames mess killed Tim for me but I still love his earlier stories. At the same time over in Rucka's Wonder Woman... another great run ruined. There are so many unresolved and intriguing ideas set up in WW then Omac happens. If I would have been aware of the behind the scenes stuff back then I had stopped reading DC after Infinite Crisis/One Year Later

[Darkcrusade25]

If anyone here was interested in what Tim will look like in Urban Legends #4, here's a WIP by the artist for his story: https://twitter.com/BelenOrtega_/sta...083968/photo/1

[KrustyKid]

If anyone here was interested in what Tim will look like in Urban Legends #4, here's a WIP by the artist for his story: https://twitter.com/BelenOrtega_/sta...083968/photo/1

Surprised he even has a suit, thought he'd be in some civilian clothes for the story

[godisawesome]

I’m generally someone who likes Red Robin as an ID if he has the cowl, and I hated Drake... but has anyone ever thought about Rook?

[scary harpy]

I’m generally someone who likes Red Robin as an ID if he has the cowl, and I hated Drake... but has anyone ever thought about Rook?

Yes.

Rook is a good name. There is a minor older villainess called Rook...but she could always be renamed Black Rook or something.