Tim Drake: Robin, Red Robin, Drake Appreciation 2021

[dietrich]

Question is if Tim will stay Robin for the foreseeable future of if he takes up a new identity once Damian returns to Robin.

Tim would have been high profile if they had done it pre flashpoint, but you see that's not really the case if you compare what they did with him in comparison to Jason in Urban Legends.

Jason got for a story that boils in terms of character development down to getting rid of the guns and a new costume, a for 6 issues the ~20 page "cover story", written by a relatively well known writer.

Tim got for his coming out for 3 issues the second backup story with roughly 10 ages per issue written by completely new writer.

Imagine some potential readers hearing that Robin is now part of the community and they decide to check out a current comic with Robin or the Robin comic?

They are going to be left hanging [or they might get the wrong Robin if the buy/order the actual Robin series].

That's going to hurt the initial curiosity. Hopefully some picked up the issue of UB.

However even those who picked up that issue of Urban Legends will still be forced to wait for the follow up.

DC didn't plan this out well enough.

[Aahz]

Imagine some potential readers hearing that Robin is now part of the community and they decide to check out a current comic with Robin or the Robin comic?

That the current comic stars a completely different Robin also doesn't help.

Those potential readers could of course also pick up the trades of Chuck Dixon's run

[Daedalus]

John Constantine is the most high profile LGBTQ male DC character.

I would say this isn't exactly true. Tim has been Robin in much of Batman media meant for the general audience, including BTAS and the Arkham games. If you ask a random person to think of a Robin, there's a solid chance they'll think of Tim, even if not consciously.

John Constantine had a brief TV show and some appearances in the Arrow-verse, but aside from that, I don't think he has any name recognition in the general public. I would say random person is much more likely to know Tim Drake than John Constantine.

Within DC's publishing division, I agree with you that John Constantine is more prominent.

[Lal]

I would say this isn't exactly true. Tim has been Robin in much of Batman media meant for the general audience, including BTAS and the Arkham games. If you ask a random person to think of a Robin, there's a solid chance they'll think of Tim, even if not consciously.

John Constantine had a brief TV show and some appearances in the Arrow-verse, but aside from that, I don't think he has any name recognition in the general public. I would say random person is much more likely to know Tim Drake than John Constantine.

Within DC's publishing division, I agree with you that John Constantine is more prominent.

As someone who didn't read comics until about a year ago I can tell you that the person on the street would think of Dick when asked about Robin. Possibly Damian or Jason if they've seen the newer animated movies. Tim was definitely the last one I learned of.

[Digifiend]

I would say this isn't exactly true. Tim has been Robin in much of Batman media meant for the general audience, including BTAS and the Arkham games. If you ask a random person to think of a Robin, there's a solid chance they'll think of Tim, even if not consciously.

John Constantine had a brief TV show and some appearances in the Arrow-verse, but aside from that, I don't think he has any name recognition in the general public. I would say random person is much more likely to know Tim Drake than John Constantine.

Within DC's publishing division, I agree with you that John Constantine is more prominent.

Some appearances? John's a regular in Legends of Tomorrow and has been for the past three years.

[Rac7d*]

Some appearances? John's a regular in Legends of Tomorrow and has been for the past three years.

Right a live action movie with Keanu reeves
One of the few dc characters to have his own solo animated movie

John gettin a new live action show on HBOMAX…. He doing better then most

[Majesty]

Additionally Tim isn’t DCs most high profile queer character. That is Harlee Quinn. And that was done in organic manner.

Yet even with Harley and Ivy. In the comics they STILL aren't in an actual committed relationship that's treated with any kind of seriousness. It's always "Oh it was a clone" or "Ivy's mad with me.." or "We're taking a break" or something to that effect.

I'd actually like to see Harley and Ivy treated with a bit of seriousness and actually turned into a serious relationship between the two. A lot of people seem to come in thinking it is, but then it always turns out that it isn't. Not outside of Elseworld stories.

So eventhough Harley is DC's highest profile queer character, her relationship with Ivy is STILL not a committed one that is treated with actual seriousness. They keep it in this safe space where we know they have physical intimacy with each other, but we don't exactly see them acting like they're in a relationship with each other. And whenever they do, something off-sets it.

Give us Ivy/Harley in a committed serious relationship for a bit, and then give us this kind of panel between the two of them in MAIN CONTINUITY.. not an Elseworld (one where we already know that they wind up on opposing sides by the time the game happens).

injustice-year-zero-8-harley-quinn-poison-ivy-wedding-1242570.jpg

Once DC does this with them in main continuity and DOESN'T break it up or have it foreshadow a future breakup. Then we'll see. But the fact that Harley is their most famous high profile queer character, and her and Ivy's relationship still isn't really treated like a serious one in main continuity, is the problem.

[Iclifton]

Yet even with Harley and Ivy. In the comics they STILL aren't in an actual committed relationship that's treated with any kind of seriousness. It's always "Oh it was a clone" or "Ivy's mad with me.." or "We're taking a break" or something to that effect.

I'd actually like to see Harley and Ivy treated with a bit of seriousness and actually turned into a serious relationship between the two. A lot of people seem to come in thinking it is, but then it always turns out that it isn't. Not outside of Elseworld stories.

So eventhough Harley is DC's highest profile queer character, her relationship with Ivy is STILL not a committed one that is treated with actual seriousness. They keep it in this safe space where we know they have physical intimacy with each other, but we don't exactly see them acting like they're in a relationship with each other. And whenever they do, something off-sets it.

Give us Ivy/Harley in a committed serious relationship for a bit, and then give us this kind of panel between the two of them in MAIN CONTINUITY.. not an Elseworld (one where we already know that they wind up on opposing sides by the time the game happens).

injustice-year-zero-8-harley-quinn-poison-ivy-wedding-1242570.jpg

Once DC does this with them in main continuity and DOESN'T break it up or have it foreshadow a future breakup. Then we'll see. But the fact that Harley is their most famous high profile queer character, and her and Ivy's relationship still isn't really treated like a serious one in main continuity, is the problem.

Wrong. Yes, they have been confirmed as a serious couple in comics. Pretty sure Harley refers to Ivy as her girlfriend in Heroes in Crisis.

[Majesty]

Wrong. Yes, they have been confirmed as a serious couple in comics. Pretty sure Harley refers to Ivy as her girlfriend in Heroes in Crisis.

I remember what happened in Heroes in Crisis. I remember thinking they were finally going to commit to the two of them and do something serious.

But we all know how that turned out with the "That Poison Ivy you've been doing all that stuff with isn't really meeeee!!" stupid storyline they used to break them up afterwards.

RCO007_1581513256.jpg


Like I said above "It's always "Oh it was a clone" or "Ivy's mad with me.." or "We're taking a break" or something to that effect." Gets tiring.

They had a 6 issue series, one that DC decided midway through that they just weren't gonna do Harley and Ivy as a couple so we got the "double Ivy" story that everyone that was thinking DC was finally going to do something or give both characters what they deserved, universally hated and was frustrated by.

Oh and we won't talk about that "emotional dramatic goodbye/I love you" kiss they gave us after ALL the culmination of years before "good Ivy" was destroyed/merged.

BC captured my same disappointment...

So we need a kiss goodbye. A kiss that will sum up these characters feelings for each other, even as they part for what may be the last time, a kiss that will last the decades, that will express their loss, their pain, their lives, their longing, and something that they can hold onto as long as they are apart, a kiss that will…
RCO018_1581513256.jpg

riveting.... just what they deserved right...?
https://bleedingcool.com/comics/dele...on-ivy-couple/

Want worse? It goes deeper: https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/...-relationship/

They had been also trying to sabotage Harley and Ivy's relationship during Heroes in Crisis but due to miscommunications the ending we got was able to happen.
THEN the same thing in the Harley/Ivy comic series where halfway through they put in wheels the motion to do just that.

All because SINCE Heroes in Crisis the higher ups at DC didn't want Harley and Poison Ivy as a couple, they wanted to try to throw her with Booster Gold.... that heteronormativity in main continuity....
Then just after they allowed Ivy to "kiss Harley's forehead" in an emotional goodbye that was supposed to culminate everything them...

They then follow that with having Booster Gold and Harley sing karaoke and kiss on the lips...

Seriously... screw...the heads in charge of these comics and decisions. What they allow in main continuity will ALWAYS speak volumes over what they allow in Elseworld.

Ugh.. again, tiring. wish it wasn't this way, but disappointment is usually just around the corner.

And Harley is their biggest and most popular representation as an LGBT character. So if they treat her this way in the comics? I don't want to imagine.


(BUT AT LEAST WE FINALLY GOT AN ON THE LIPS KISS In Urban Legends in a flashback sequence)

and currently Ivy is dealing with amnesia (the age old trope), or something akin to DID from PTSD of being used as a drug mule that has completely changed/split her personality. Wasn't Harley(whose entire reason of staying in Gotham was to find Ivy) that found her, but Catwoman. Now we get to see what they do with THAT.

That + Urban Legends flashback, they are doing a lot of teases. But now that Poison Ivy is... just Ivy(for now) and staying with Catwoman.. who knows.

What I WILL say however is New Roots was probably one of the best Harley/Ivy panels they've ever done in main continuity.

[signalman112]

Sasha from Casually Comics give an overview of Tim Drake.

[Dr.Octagon]

Imagine some potential readers hearing that Robin is now part of the community and they decide to check out a current comic with Robin or the Robin comic?

They are going to be left hanging [or they might get the wrong Robin if the buy/order the actual Robin series].

That's going to hurt the initial curiosity. Hopefully some picked up the issue of UB.

However even those who picked up that issue of Urban Legends will still be forced to wait for the follow up.

DC didn't plan this out well enough.

If we setup a poll on here I guarantee you that 90% of DC comics fans would have chosen for Tim Drake to remain straight.

DC needs to realize that Twitter ‘likes’ do not equate to Sales.

[Restingvoice]

If we setup a poll on here I guarantee you that 90% of DC comics fans would have chosen for Tim Drake to remain straight.

DC needs to realize that Twitter ‘likes’ do not equate to Sales.

I guess if it's Twitter, it's gonna end up number #1 in Comixology instead of just #5

[Dr.Octagon]

I guess if it's Twitter, it's gonna end up number #1 in Comixology instead of just #5

#5 Temporarily purely for it’s shock factor.
No doubt soon to plumet down the sales charts and burn.

[John Venus]

If we setup a poll on here I guarantee you that 90% of DC comics fans would have chosen for Tim Drake to remain straight.

DC needs to realize that Twitter ‘likes’ do not equate to Sales.

They don't have to make a poll to decide his sexuality.

That's not how story telling works. The writers wanted to tell a story about Tim realizing he was bi sexual and DC was okay with it. That's all there is to it. It does not taint any previous stories told with the character.

[Darkspellmaster]

They don't have to make a poll to decide his sexuality.

That's not how story telling works. The writers wanted to tell a story about Tim realizing he was bi sexual and DC was okay with it. That's all there is to it. It does not taint any previous stories told with the character.

Tim being Bi isn't the issue for me, the issue is were getting into Charlie Cooper territory.

So we were talking about how much Steph and Tim are like MJ. Because Steph and Tim are a pretty well established pairing (even Dick/Babs is the most known), them breaking up and him dating Bernard is very much akin to Peter ending up with Charlie Cooper in Spider-Man.

Basically Charlie was billed as a Peter's one true love, to the point where MJ was Basically telling him to date Charlie.

I do not want Steph to be relegated to a mouth peice for that pairings, what's going to taint the stories is if they use her to be his stepping stone for this relationship.