Tim Drake: Robin, Red Robin, Drake Appreciation 2021

[phonogram12]

I mean, Dixon's reaction could've been just summed up as: "I created a character called "Alt-Hero."

[Dataweaver]

If you want to be dismissive of him, sure. What it definitively says, though, is that any argument to the effect of “Tim was originally envisioned to be bisexual, but the industry at the time wouldn't permit it” is bogus. Tim's bisexuality has no precedent in how he was written in the past, nor in how he was envisioned by the guy who was most responsible for shaping him. This is a new development that came completely out of the blue.

[phonogram12]

If you want to be dismissive of him, sure.

Thanks! I will! As I would anyone who would go ahead and name a superhero Alt-Hero without the slightest bit of irony!

What it definitively says, though, is that any argument to the effect of “Tim was originally envisioned to be bisexual, but the industry at the time wouldn't permit it” is bogus. Tim's bisexuality has no precedent in how he was written in the past, nor in how he was envisioned by the guy who was most responsible for shaping him. This is a new development that came completely out of the blue.

There have been a lot of developments about characters that have had no precedent in the past and seemingly came "out of the blue." The only reason certain people take issue with this one is the same reason Dixon doesn't see the issue in creating a character called Alt-Hero with actual sincerity.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

If you want to be dismissive of him, sure. What it definitively says, though, is that any argument to the effect of “Tim was originally envisioned to be bisexual, but the industry at the time wouldn't permit it” is bogus. Tim's bisexuality has no precedent in how he was written in the past, nor in how he was envisioned by the guy who was most responsible for shaping him. This is a new development that came completely out of the blue.

Thanks! I will! As I would anyone who would go ahead and name a superhero Alt-Hero without the slightest bit of irony!



There have been a lot of developments about characters that have had no precedent in the past and seemingly came "out of the blue." The only reason certain people take issue with this one is the same reason Dixon doesn't see the issue in creating a character called Alt-Hero with actual sincerity.

I have enjoyed Dixon's writing since I was a teen, but I don't agree with his views on politics. The site the quote came from seems to be quite right leaning and the comments to the interview give an idea of the kind of people that visit it.

That aside, I do agreed with Chuck on some points, but this is also not the same Tim (unfortunately) that he wrote. This is Rebirth Tim, a character struggling to find an identity. I think DC should have spent the pages coming up with a new superhero identity for Tim since Damian isn't going anywhere.

I don't really care if Tim is bi, though I prefer him with Steph, it just seems like there were bigger things needed to be done to Tim before this.

[Restingvoice]

They're very similar, yes.

That's part of it. But the existence of debris from the original Multiverse clashes with the ending of Convergence; I'll get to that shortly.

Similar to? No. Telos said that he picked the cities out of “dead timelines”, just before they died. That means that the cities that were picked from the pre-Crisis Multiverse were picked from Multiverse-2. So far, so good. However:


This is where the problem arises. Convergence ends with Telos declaring that the heroes succeeded, that the Multiverse was saved, and that it went on to mutate into the current Multiverse. Furthermore, all of the heroes from that mission arguably moved to the post-Flashpoint Earth-0: during the following year, Hal Jordan had a run-in with the Zero Hour Parallax, and Superman: Lois and Clark detailed what happened to the pre-Flashpoint Kents after they stopped the Crisis. Jon Kent exists because they were successful.

I see. So what happened from then is, once Rebirth hit, all of that was rewritten to the new version.

There's only one Super family, the Rebirth version just separated into two by Mxy, then they're rewritten again by Mxy so they've never been separated, but Mxy only change those two things within Earth-0. He didn't change the Multiverse's state.

Dr. Manhattan's reality warping that caused the whole state of New 52 and DC Universe Rebirth where Alan Scott never becoming Green Lantern, the Justice Society never existed in Earth-0 (although Johnny Thunder remembered). This rewritten history of Earth-0 became the history of New 52 and Rebirth.

That was the only things he changed though. He didn't change the state of Crisis. He only started meddling Post Crisis History, and once it's restored, it became the new Rebirth History.

So at this point, the Crisis should still be canceled.

Above Dr. Manhattan is Perpetua, who used Crisis energy to release herself from The Source Wall. Even after the Crisis was erased by Convergence, she already got her energy since Anti-Monitor did it in 1984. The change of the past does not affect the energy she already got.

However, once she got involved with Batman Who Laughs who later become The Darkest Knight, Hypertime was affected. This is when all timelines seem to be canon at the same time.

It was the work of Batman Who Laughs and Perpetua that unraveled everything Convergence did. The Crisis lives again, as Perpetua needs constant Crisis energy (I forget what for, to delete more universes, to keep in power, or to be prepared for The Hands, but the point it, they revive Crisis so they can perpetually power Perpetua)

Only after they're both defeated did Hypertime healed, Multiverse healed, history is restored and Crisis still happened as part of this one long history timeline.

It is in this new long history timeline that Earth-Flash-1 is created.

[KrustyKid]

I agree however their recent decisions and actions indicates they still have plans for the character.

Dc seems to be putting effort into making sure there's some content for all the family. They seem to be trying harder, listening more and getting creative.

Well Tim is in semi-limbo right now. So we shall see.

[Konja7]

There's only one Super family, the Rebirth version just separated into two by Mxy, then they're rewritten again by Mxy so they've never been separated, but Mxy only change those two things within Earth-0. He didn't change the Multiverse's state.

It seems the fact that Superman family was never separated has changes in the timeline too.

This caused that New52 Superboy was never created by Harvest, which caused that New52 Teen Titans stories never happened.

[KrustyKid]

It seems the fact that Superman family was never separated has changes in the timeline too.

This caused that New52 Superboy was never created by Harvest, which caused that New52 Teen Titans stories never happened.

No one is going to lose sleep over that fact

[Aahz]

If you want to be dismissive of him, sure. What it definitively says, though, is that any argument to the effect of “Tim was originally envisioned to be bisexual, but the industry at the time wouldn't permit it” is bogus. Tim's bisexuality has no precedent in how he was written in the past, nor in how he was envisioned by the guy who was most responsible for shaping him. This is a new development that came completely out of the blue.

I agree when it comes to how he was written till the early 2000s.

After that there are some scenes that could be seen as precedent, and some writers from that era might have pushed for it. But most of these writers only had pretty short runs with the character, and non them really made any contribution to the character on the level of what Dixon did.

[witchboy]

I didn't expect Dixon to be supportive, but it is disappointing he had to complain about Tim being gay "introduced sexual aspects" in a way that hetero romance doesn't. He seems completely oblivious to that being hypocritical and a double standard.
Saying create a new character isn't helpful when every comic reader knows that new characters struggle to build a fan base. I loved Bunker and where is he now?
If they had created a new gay Robin - or any new teen character in the Bat books playing that same sidekick role - fans would've been just as vocally against creating a new Robin when there's already so many and they want to read about the characters they're already familiar with.
There's no way to have a gay character brought in that's going to please people opposed to it.

[Restingvoice]

It seems the fact that Superman family was never separated has changes in the timeline too.

This caused that New52 Superboy was never created by Harvest, which caused that New52 Teen Titans stories never happened.

The New 52 Teen Titans still happened, or at least a part of it, with Beast Boy still mourning Tim when Damian kidnapped him and Bunker existing, but this time there was no New 52 Superboy, replaced with Rebirth Conner.

So even though New 52 Superboy did use the name Connor the first time he tried to live a civilian life, by the time Rebirth Tim talked to his future self, he has no memory of any Conner. Then once he remembered and they're reunited, reality has been altered to the Rebirth version, where Conner disappeared into Gemworld after he started attending Smallville High, and so never joined Tim's New 52 Teen Titans.

[Konja7]

The New 52 Teen Titans still happened, or at least a part of it, with Beast Boy still mourning Tim when Damian kidnapped him and Bunker existing, but this time there was no New 52 Superboy, replaced with Rebirth Conner.

So even though New 52 Superboy did use the name Connor the first time he tried to live a civilian life, by the time Rebirth Tim talked to his future self, he has no memory of any Conner. Then once he remembered and they're reunited, reality has been altered to the Rebirth version, where Conner disappeared into Gemworld after he started attending Smallville High, and so never joined Tim's New 52 Teen Titans.

Teen Titans where Beast Boy was still mourning Tim happened before Superman Reborn (where the timelines merged).

In Red Hood and the Outlaws #32, Bunker mentioned the confusion about his situation due to this reboot.

[Morgoth]

Tim once again calls himself Red Robin in Clownhunter back-up.

[Lal]

Tim once again calls himself Red Robin in Clownhunter back-up.

Maybe because Damian reclaimed the Robin mantle in front of the batfamily in Robin 5?

It would have been nice if there was any explanation as to why he changed his name again, other than the lack of communication between the writers.

I don't like the direction he seems to be heading in the last Clownhunter backup.

[Fergus]

Maybe because Damian reclaimed the Robin mantle in front of the batfamily in Robin 5?

It would have been nice if there was any explanation as to why he changed his name again, other than the lack of communication between the writers.

I don't like the direction he seems to be heading in the last Clownhunter backup.

The writers are in communication. One of the key positives since Abernathy became group editor and Tynion took over Batman.

We need an explanation as this was addressed in UL. Tim at times cover's for Robin [Damian] when he's away. Red Robin or temp Robin is pretty much the same. A bat sidekick who's not an independent hero like Nightwing or Red Hood.

The name saga had gone on for too long even the web series took a pop at it with the 'no sense of direction' line in the Red Robin character info.