Barbara Gordon: Batgirl/Oracle Appreciation 2021

[Pohzee]

Why? Dick does the exact same thing no matter what costume he dons. The Robins do too, but they get their own books ‘cos they’re -extra special.- Now Dick? Clearly he was more important as Agent 37!

More Robins dilutes the importance of the mantle and diminishes’s Dick’s historical significance. I did enjoy Agent 37 a lot while it lasted tho

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

More Robins dilutes the importance of the mantle and diminishes’s Dick’s historical significance. I did enjoy Agent 37 a lot while it lasted tho

Can’t tell if you’re being serious or sarcastic but either way I do agree. That much feels clear enough with how they were quick to abandon the ‘we are Robin’ approach and multiple Nightwings, but somehow this is A-Ok.

[Pohzee]

Can’t tell if you’re being serious or sarcastic but either way I do agree. That much feels clear enough with how they were quick to abandon the ‘we are Robin’ approach and multiple Nightwings, but somehow this is A-Ok.

Oh I even mean Jason, Tim, and Damian. Four is too many

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Oh I even mean Jason, Tim, and Damian. Four is too many

Yeah but see: they aren’t all Robin at the same time. And they all do the same thing, except Jason gets guns. They change costumes and names but they don’t really change what they do (except maybe Jason, but even then.)

[Godlike13]

I'm confused.
I originally said:You then quoted me and responded with:Am I missing something?

Is it now July 2021 where you are?
How do you come up with "It's been like five months" in response to my question of "How much have we seen of Babs in the Oracle position since the start of March?"
And my whole point of what I wrote was that we're just starting to see what will happen from Infinite Frontier, so maybe it's premature to say that just because she's been a bit idle since Batgirl #50 that things will necessarily continue as they were prior to Infinite Frontier #0?

Again though your trying to argue what could be to defend what is. Oracle has been back for months now, we have been seeing what she has been doing, we have seen the hints they have been laying ground work for. Just wanting to count March misses my whole point as to which you responded to. That eventually some maybe might do something doesn’t excuse what she’s currently doing. Which was she was no better in March’s Batman btw. The most it looks like she can hope for is a bigger support role in a possible Batgirls series among the other ones we already know about.

[Frontier]

His emphasis is on why Babs shouldn’t be Batgirl: he thinks two more crime fighters are enough to fill the role, not caring for what she brought to the role or even what the other two do. His emphasis is on downplaying her accomplishments as Batgirl, i.e “I could never be everywhere,” except that, yes, technology is remote enough for you to be able to do that on the go. You can fix it so it -can- happen.

I feel like your extrapolating a bit too much from certain dialogue and sequences.

Tech is useful yes, but there's also an importance for more on-hand field resources as well.

And this isn’t about Babs proving herself, she’s more than done that (even if Tynion thinks differently) it’s about her getting her due. Her getting to actually be and -succeed- as Batgirl in equal measure as Oracle.

I don't think Tynion thinks otherwise. I think fans just have a very different opinion about what is due Babs as a character.

Again though your trying to argue what could be to defend what is. Oracle has been back for months now, we have been seeing what she has been doing, we have seen the hints they have been laying ground work for. Just wanting to count March misses my whole point as to which you responded to. That eventually some maybe might do something doesn’t excuse what she’s currently doing. Which was she was no better in March’s Batman btw. The most it looks like she can hope for is a bigger support role in a possible Batgirls series among the other ones we already know about.

I feel like she's still going to be a lead in the Batgirls book.

[Gaius]

[Frontier]

Of course the Burnside half is taking a selfie .

[sorboares]

I really miss seeing Babs as Batgirl. Its feels like so long ago since we saw her in Batgirl issue 50.
It sucks we have only seen tiny bits of her as Oracle and nothing as Batgirl.
If they do release a Batgirls book I hope Babs suits up often as Batgirl and not just on rare occasions.
Babs deserves to be a main character not a supporting character that you hardly see.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

I really miss seeing Babs as Batgirl. Its feels like so long ago since we saw her in Batgirl issue 50.
It sucks we have only seen tiny bits of her as Oracle and nothing as Batgirl.
If they do release a Batgirls book I hope Babs suits up often as Batgirl and not just on rare occasions.
Babs deserves to be a main character not a supporting character that you hardly see.

Exactly. I can’t stand all these ‘fans’ pushing for ‘once in a while.’ Like. No. She’s Batgirl: she deserves to show that. We love her for a reason.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

I feel like your extrapolating a bit too much from certain dialogue and sequences.

Tech is useful yes, but there's also an importance for more on-hand field resources as well.

I don't think Tynion thinks otherwise. I think fans just have a very different opinion about what is due Babs as a character.

I feel like she's still going to be a lead in the Batgirls book.

‘Lead’ in this case mean two very different things. If you mean ‘lead’ as in: coordinate from the side lines, yeah, that’s a given. But it’s still only support, and still means Babs gets diminished as Batgirl because she isn’t -being- Batgirl. Just supporting the other two. Which isn’t remotely fair or interesting tbh.

[atomicbattery]

‘Lead’ in this case mean two very different things. If you mean ‘lead’ as in: coordinate from the side lines, yeah, that’s a given. But it’s still only support, and still means Babs gets diminished as Batgirl because she isn’t -being- Batgirl. Just supporting the other two. Which isn’t remotely fair or interesting tbh.

Yep.

I have great empathy for what Stephanie and Cassandra fans have been through for the last several years, and think that a ‘Batgirls’ book is a tremendous idea. But that would be with Barbara as Batgirl leading the team. Barbara sitting at a computer as the disembodied voice, being soooo much more ‘interesting’ as a character and soooo much more ‘important’ in the Batuniverse?
I’m sure I’d buy it, just to be reading a monthly Barbara Gordon book, but it wouldn’t be with great enthusiasm.

[spatterdasher]

Someone besides me has probably already said this but I'm baffled at the idea that making Barbara act as Oracle means she's a weaker and less important character. If anything, it shows off how much more capable she is than the other Batgirls. I mean, sure, a bad writer who wants to sideline her could probably do that by relegating her to exposition, but I've seen no evidence that Tynion is intending to do this. She's got more screentime than Cass and Steph so far. That says 'lead' to me, even if she's not physically on the field. It also says to me that Tynion might be more interested in looking into the 'investigative' side of crimefighting rather than the 'fighting' side of crimefighting, and I'm always up for putting more detective stories back into Batman.

There really isn’t a need for Bruce to prove himself as Batman.
He should probably just sit in the cave at the Batcomputer and direct others. He would probably be more important, and more at the center of the Batuniverse than ever. Or simply use his wealth, position, and power to create a better Gotham. I’m sure that if there were a passionate fanbase that wanted to see another- or maybe two other- characters as Batman, that they would agree that that would make him a far more interesting character.

Unironically, yes. Sounds different and intriguing. But I'm of the opinion that a main character doesn't have to punch stuff to be a main character.

[Frontier]

I'm assuming Batgirls will end up featuring all three of them in leading roles and Babs will still be appearing as Batgirl in the book, personally.

[Gaius]