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  1. #196

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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    To be fair, Barbara in a supporting role isn't really because Stephanie and Cassandra.

    Barbara/Batgirl comic wasn't selling good anymore. So, DC needs a new direction for the brand.


    I still think wee will see Barbara in street fights in the future.
    It wasn’t selling good because of DC’s mismanagement and lack of respect for the Batgirl writers. Something which Tynion hardly seems to be rectifying, just doubling down on his own blind nostalgia.

    And cut it whatever way you want: Barbara was a support role then and she’s an extra-super-duper support role now by Tynion’s own admission.

    Yeah right, wouldn’t hold my breath with how this is going.

  2. #197
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Tynion’s Oracle is a secretary. He has her make references to pander, but the actual use is for exposition and organization. He’s leaning hard on all the traps of Oracle, and the motivation behind Oracle’s return seems rather concerning. Cause it’s certainly not to reintroduce Oracle into a new generation.

  3. #198
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I'm willing to see how they approach it moving forward before I judge how well they're using Babs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Tynion’s Oracle is a secretary. He has her make references to pander, but the actual use is for exposition and organization. He’s leaning hard on all the traps of Oracle.
    So we're going with the sexy secretary trope?

    I feel like we just have two very different perspectives on what Oracle does though.

  4. #199

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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Tynion’s Oracle is a secretary. He has her make references to pander, but the actual use is for exposition and organization. He’s leaning hard on all the traps of Oracle, and the motivation behind Oracle’s return seems rather concerning. Cause it’s certainly not to reintroduce Oracle into a new generation.
    Thankyou, this right here!! What exactly is she doing other than just sitting behind a screen playing red-light, green light? What detective work is she doing any better that she didn’t do as Batgirl. Worse: what are the other, supposedly ‘better’ Batgirl doing any better than Babs? Why should Babs be devalued when they’re doing less? Or how she’s going right back into another shade of stagnation?

  5. #200

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I'm willing to see how they approach it moving forward before I judge how well they're using Babs.

    So we're going with the sexy secretary trope?

    I feel like we just have two very different perspectives on what Oracle does though.
    They’re hardly using her at all. Just to act as exposition or an ear for other characters to figure things out for. She’s a sound-board.

  6. #201
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    Thankyou, this right here!! What exactly is she doing other than just sitting behind a screen playing red-light, green light? What detective work is she doing any better that she didn’t do as Batgirl. Worse: what are the other, supposedly ‘better’ Batgirl doing any better than Babs? Why should Babs be devalued when they’re doing less? Or how she’s going right back into another shade of stagnation?
    Computer detective work? Being in multiple places at once? I just don't see the devaluing other people do.

    I thought some of her depictions as Batgirl were honestly devaluing her.
    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    They’re hardly using her at all. Just to act as exposition or an ear for other characters to figure things out for. She’s a sound-board.
    I agree Oracle can be much more than that.

  7. #202

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Computer detective work? Being in multiple places at once? I just don't see the devaluing other people do.

    I thought some of her depictions as Batgirl were honestly devaluing her.

    I agree Oracle can be much more than that.
    What computer detective work has she done, exactly that she hasn’t done as Batgirl (WITH a computer, might I add!) The devaluing is as follows: she isn’t getting her own story or POV. She is literally being tech support, doing what Batman and Batgirl could easily have done on their own time and with their own skills.

  8. #203
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    What computer detective work has she done, exactly that she hasn’t done as Batgirl (WITH a computer, might I add!) The devaluing is as follows: she isn’t getting her own story or POV. She is literally being tech support, doing what Batman and Batgirl could easily have done on their own time and with their own skills.
    I assume a Batgirls book will be as much about her as Steph and Cass.

    We'll have to see what her role in Nightwing is like.

  9. #204

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I assume a Batgirls book will be as much about her as Steph and Cass.

    We'll have to see what her role in Nightwing is like.
    Her behind the scenes, not as Batgirl. Maybe commenting on wanting to be Batgirl, maybe not: she’ll be there, but she won’t be active. Cass and Steph fans will get what they’ve been pissing and moaning for at last and Barbara will suffer for it.

  10. #205
    Mighty Member Drako's Avatar
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    Taylor already said that Barbara will act as Oracle and Batgirl in the Nightwing book.


  11. #206

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drako View Post
    Taylor already said that Barbara will act as Oracle and Batgirl in the Nightwing book.

    For how long and how competently? This could well be the vehicle Tynion approved to reason out why she’s ‘not good’ as Batgirl, hence the partner-position in someone else’s book rather than her own solo.

  12. #207
    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    What computer detective work has she done, exactly that she hasn’t done as Batgirl (WITH a computer, might I add!) The devaluing is as follows: she isn’t getting her own story or POV. She is literally being tech support, doing what Batman and Batgirl could easily have done on their own time and with their own skills.
    Much as I'm a fan of Barbara-as-Batgirl, there is also a value to her operating behind-the-scenes as Oracle.

    You talk about "literally being tech support, doing what Batman and Batgirl could easily have done on their own time and with their own skills", but that's only for prep work. When things are going down on the field, it's good to also have a behind-the-lines general who can view the whole field from afar without the distraction of being shot at / fighting hand-to-hand. That person has more space / breathing room to connect all the dots when they're not personally in hand-to-hand combat or are trying to quietly / unobtrusively observe something up-close without being noticed.

    Both Batgirl and Oracle can be important roles, and it sounds like Barbara may have the opportunity to perform both in a way that could enhance some situations.

  13. #208

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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Much as I'm a fan of Barbara-as-Batgirl, there is also a value to her operating behind-the-scenes as Oracle.

    You talk about "literally being tech support, doing what Batman and Batgirl could easily have done on their own time and with their own skills", but that's only for prep work. When things are going down on the field, it's good to also have a behind-the-lines general who can view the whole field from afar without the distraction of being shot at / fighting hand-to-hand. That person has more space / breathing room to connect all the dots when they're not personally in hand-to-hand combat or are trying to quietly / unobtrusively observe something up-close without being noticed.

    Both Batgirl and Oracle can be important roles, and it sounds like Barbara may have the opportunity to perform both in a way that could enhance some situations.
    You’re a fan of Babs as Batgirl? Hardly seems that way at all. What value do you see then, hm?

    And go on then: what work has she done now that’s somehow beyond simple field prep work? She’s coordinating people, is that what you mean? With technology as it is, that can easily be done on the field as well. Technology has come so far with drones and such, Babs doesn’t need to be saddled to a computer screen to do the same job. She can unobtrusively observe only any network on a rooftop using miniaturised tech. She can recall the Batfam and coordinate everyone into secure zones to listen on the go. It’s old fashioned to think that can only be done from a ‘war room.’

  14. #209
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Much as I'm a fan of Barbara-as-Batgirl, there is also a value to her operating behind-the-scenes as Oracle.

    You talk about "literally being tech support, doing what Batman and Batgirl could easily have done on their own time and with their own skills", but that's only for prep work. When things are going down on the field, it's good to also have a behind-the-lines general who can view the whole field from afar without the distraction of being shot at / fighting hand-to-hand. That person has more space / breathing room to connect all the dots when they're not personally in hand-to-hand combat or are trying to quietly / unobtrusively observe something up-close without being noticed.

    Both Batgirl and Oracle can be important roles, and it sounds like Barbara may have the opportunity to perform both in a way that could enhance some situations.
    Here's the the thing though, when things are going down in the field they write plot armor so that she can't do anything. Ghost Maker had un-hackable tech for example. Her doing behind the scene things, despite being potentially effective, they don't actually want it to be that effective as its lacks visual flair and at the end of the day she's not the true hero of these stories. As to detective work at one point she called in others to literally just read for her. The vision of what she potentially could be, is just not what she currently is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    So we're going with the sexy secretary trope?

    I feel like we just have two very different perspectives on what Oracle does though.
    And I think your confusing what Oracle could do with what she actually is doing. Which is little more the dumping exposition and organizing appearances.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 03-04-2021 at 02:37 PM.

  15. #210
    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    . . . And I think your confusing what Oracle could do with what she actually is doing. Which is little more the dumping exposition and organizing appearances.
    How much have we seen of Babs in the Oracle position since the start of March?

    Isn't it a little too early to judge how she'll function in the is role under the Infinite Frontier launch?

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