Barbara Gordon: Batgirl/Oracle Appreciation 2021

[MajorHoy]

. . . I don't think they need to outright state she's the lead Batgirl for her to be the lead Batgirl, and again I don't see a new costume existing for just promotion and lip-service. That just doesn't really make sense, otherwise why not just stick with the previous suit?

Because a Batgirl outfit without the cowl is lame?

[Gaius]

[Rac7d*]

This was a cute Easter eggB4E83CA5-6308-4012-BC06-CCFF587DE4D1.jpg

[Frontier]

Except, that wasn’t what started all this? You’re assuming Babs will get to be Batgirl at all in this new book, when solicitations and clues to what has been stated has played out as predicted. You enjoy these stories individually…but you don’t defend the characters equally. You say you’d like to see all three as Batgirl, but you defend her being a chronic support character as if it’s the best thing ever; any time anyone points this out, you try to argue that she isn’t just support, or that she isn’t in a starring role…but she isn’t. Where’s her story? Her opportunity to be Batgirl? It doesn’t exist and you just defend that in favour of a hypothetical that we can predict isn’t going to happen. And either way, it doesn’t affect you, because you got what you wanted either way.

I guess I just have a different expectations of the solicits than you do.

If someone is criticizing Babs unfairly, I would defend her. I was never defending her as a chronic supporting character because I don't view her that way and expect her to take a lead role moving forward. Her opportunity to be Batgirl again is coming in Fear State and I assume it will continue from here. If that doesn't happen, I won't have gotten at all what I wanted.

You say I’m reading too deeply into those lines: but I’m not wrong. Supposedly, Babs has been both Batgirl and Oracle…but only been depicted as one identity, with excuses being made as to why she can’t be the other. That’s so obviously a mandate at play, especially when considering Tynion’s careful wording. You don’t understand office-politics-speak, but that is literally the plainest way he could say “**** off and get back behind the screen, Babs.”

Right now she hasn't made an appearance as Batgirl yet since Joker War, but she will for Fear State, mandate or otherwise.

You accept them as Batgirls in a meta sense. In story, I don’t: I would have if all three were operating together and Babs hadn’t been so shafted, but as only two of them get to actually be active Batgirls then, no, they aren’t. They’re pale imitations who can’t hold a candle to Babs.

I accept them as Batgirls because...they are. Like, literally I can go to my local library and pick up a Steph Batgirl trade alongside a Babs Batgirl trade.

Now that Babs has suited up I assume her activity with the other Batgirls will step up. No imitation going on at all, especially when they have distinctive suits.

It's not a competition between three great characters.

And the thing you still aren’t hearing me out on? STEPH AND CASS CAN BE ANYONE. They change a name and get to do the same thing over and over. Babs gets shut off behind a screen being supposedly ‘important.’ Right, yeah, important exposition. THAT is what I take issue with mostly, but ya know what? Steph and Cass can **** right off thanks to ‘fans’ like you.
Because you’ve ensured that nothing CAN be done with the three of them. Only two of them can be out at one time because the third is so special she has to be inside propping them up! God forbid Babs get to be an active mentor! Noooo. Can’t have that; and we won’t thanks to the signals you sent DC!

Steph and Cass can be anyone as much as Babs can be, but being Batgirl is still a significant aspect to their character now. Changing their name misses the point.

I think it's DC's fault for treating their handling of characters more than it's the fans'...unless the fans demanding the girls come back were wrong, which I don't believe that.

And if you don’t think advertising and money had anything to do with this after the financial slump DC’s been in? Well I think you’re just playing dumb. But I haven’t spent a penny on them since Tynion, so I’m proud to say that if they weren’t getting the figures they thought they were for this move then I was part of it. As were many other Batgirl fans (and I mean THE Batgirl: not the blandgirls.)

I'm not playing dumb, I just don't think there's a correlation to coming up with a new costume just for covers and not actually using it at all in the interiors for vague promotional reasons. Even I don't think comics work like that.

Hopefully a Batgirls book won't write the trio in a bland way.

[sorboares]

Some comments I have read on here I agree with. Like the whole Nightwing series was advertised as Babs would Batgirl & Oracle but we have NOT seen her as Batgirl at all. Hopefully in the next 2 month we will with issue 86 being released and Batgirl is on the cover in her new costume. But I have been disappointed that it's been a year since The Jokers War and we have not seen Batgirl at all.
As for Fear State, by the look of the covers so far Batgirl looks to be a main character in it which I hope is correct and I hope after Fear State she will continue to be Batgirl for a large part but also helps out as Oracle too.
When someone on here wrote BABS was mentioned in the solicitation but not Batgirl, where was this from? For what book? I think I missed this.
We still don't have any confirmation of a Batgirls book yet do we? I hope it happens and I really hope Babs will lead as Batgirl and Oracle.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Some comments I have read on here I agree with. Like the whole Nightwing series was advertised as Babs would Batgirl & Oracle but we have NOT seen her as Batgirl at all. Hopefully in the next 2 month we will with issue 86 being released and Batgirl is on the cover in her new costume. But I have been disappointed that it's been a year since The Jokers War and we have not seen Batgirl at all.
As for Fear State, by the look of the covers so far Batgirl looks to be a main character in it which I hope is correct and I hope after Fear State she will continue to be Batgirl for a large part but also helps out as Oracle too.
When someone on here wrote BABS was mentioned in the solicitation but not Batgirl, where was this from? For what book? I think I missed this.
We still don't have any confirmation of a Batgirls book yet do we? I hope it happens and I really hope Babs will lead as Batgirl and Oracle.

Babs has been differentiated from “The Batgirls” in the November solicitations. They read along the lines of “Oracle
Orders the Batgirls wait at the Clocktower while Oracle and Nightwing investigate” and “Babs and Nightwing with The Batgirls and Tim Drake(Robin) in tow.” Really specific **** like that.

[sorboares]

Babs has been differentiated from “The Batgirls” in the November solicitations. They read along the lines of “Oracle
Orders the Batgirls wait at the Clocktower while Oracle and Nightwing investigate” and “Babs and Nightwing with The Batgirls and Tim Drake(Robin) in tow.” Really specific **** like that.

Hmmm I don't like the sounds of that but lets wait and see coz why would they create a new Batgirl costume and do publicity for it if she wasn't Batgirl? Seems like a waste of time and energy.
What books were these solicitations for?

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Hmmm I don't like the sounds of that but lets wait and see coz why would they create a new Batgirl costume and do publicity for it if she wasn't Batgirl? Seems like a waste of time and energy.
What books were these solicitations for?

For exactly that: publicity. Because Tynion at the time had no intention of using her as Batgirl and probably planned to take her out of the role: but they still had the movie coming up and needed the advertising. False or not it creates the impression that Babs is still Batgirl; like how she was depicted as such on the Nightwing books but never on the pages proper? Even despite Taylor swearing that she would be acting in both roles equally…before suddenly she wasn’t. Because Tynion’s mandate. Now suddenly he’s leaving after making all these grand promises, never referring to Babs as Batgirl either, and giving the distinct impression that he didn’t have as much control as he wanted.

And for multiple books: Nightwing and Tec mostly. She’s never referred to as Batgirl in ANY of these solicitations.

[RedQueen]

I'm not gonna deny that Cass and Steph fans like to use Barbara's thread just to rag on her and and emphasize why their fave should be Batgirl.

I stay the hell out of it cause I've read the essays over and over again in the thread, when I just care about good solid content for Babs. The Batgirl debate rages on just like the Oracle vs Batgirl debate. DO I think their should be a consistency in Babs character/codename? Yes. Though the current situation I do not find confusing and I'm they will find a more permanent role for her. I'll honestly admit, I never really cared about Steph and Cass, except really Cass and Barbara relationship. And nothing to do with them being Batgirls, but because as characters they just aren't my thing. So I'm not advocating for a Batgirls book, just like I don't care about all the Robins. I'm not really a fan of team books unless it's a tiny team, like BoP and aren't fudged together because of a codename debate.

The thing is I think a lot of people think being "Batgirl" is the only way for their favorite character to stay relevant, and I think that's why people are intense about the debate.

Anyways there is a Babsgirl movie, which means she's not going anywhere and she'd going to suit up again.

I just hope to see her get a solo again soon, but in the meantime I am enjoying her content in Nightwing.

[JackJustMetMartin]

He never gets his stories compromised for anyone else can but Babs does. Neither does Dick as Nightwing.

I mean, Dick was literally shot in the head and called himself Ric for two years because he was a plot point in Bruce's book, because it was a quick way to take out Bruce's right hand.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

I mean, Dick was literally shot in the head and called himself Ric for two years because he was a plot point in Bruce's book, because it was a quick way to take out Bruce's right hand.

The point still stands.

[MajorHoy]

from Birds of Prey Secret Files 2003 (August 2003)

[billee0918]

Anyway, Barbara Batgirl is awesome and I’m crazy excited to see her in action, in her new uniform, in Fear State.

[Frontier]

Anyway, Barbara Batgirl is awesome and I’m crazy excited to see her in action, in her new uniform, in Fear State.

We also have Babs showing up in:

- Titans (as Commissioner)

- Gotham Knights (as Batgirl)

- DC Super Hero Girls (as Batgirl)

- Her own solo movie (as Batgirl)

- Likely Young Justice season 4 (as Oracle).

[Rac7d*]

Anyway, Barbara Batgirl is awesome and I’m crazy excited to see her in action, in her new uniform, in Fear State.

In film
In video games
She may even come back in YJ since Steph and Cass are not batgirl their either