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  1. #181
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Batman #106 preview is out on Graphic Policy featuring Oracle and her gamer chair
    BM_106-5.jpg

  2. #182
    Secretive Member GSman's Avatar
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    Holy F#%*king s$$t. Jimenez is too good. Like DC's best artist right now good. Damn. Dudes grown a hell of a lot since Smallville season 11. Barbara under his pen for the forseeable future will be a great.

  3. #183
    Mighty Member Drako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSman View Post
    Holy F#%*king s$$t. Jimenez is too good. Like DC's best artist right now good. Damn. Dudes grown a hell of a lot since Smallville season 11. Barbara under his pen for the forseeable future will be a great.
    Jimenez is awesome indeed.

    With he in Batman and Dan Mora in TEC, this is the best duo drawing Batman at the same time that i can remember.

  4. #184
    Spectacular Member sorboares's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Batman #106 preview is out on Graphic Policy featuring Oracle and her gamer chair
    BM_106-5.jpg
    Great art, I love it. Would love to see what Babs looks like as Batgirl with this awesome art.

  5. #185
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drako View Post
    Jimenez is awesome indeed.

    With he in Batman and Dan Mora in TEC, this is the best duo drawing Batman at the same time that i can remember.
    I won't argue with that .

  6. #186
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    She will be in Harley Quinn season 2 right ?

  7. #187
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    She will be in Harley Quinn season 2 right ?
    I think you mean season 3.

    As for Babs? Probably. I just hope she's less conciliatory towards Harley and moves on from the Burnside costume.

  8. #188
    Incredible Member RedQueen's Avatar
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    Being both Batgirl and Oracle is just so incredibly lazy at this point. Abled bodied Oracle doesn't work and still having her chip work so she can still be Batgirl, most likely when her movie comes out and they can capitalize..... This is not a case when you can get the best of both worlds....

    But honestly, at least with Oracle art coming out now she doesn't look like a teenager anymore and looks a lot more mature.


    I read somewhere that Babs was gonna get dosed with the Man-Bat serum and become sort of meta a few weeks ago and get her own mantel, I thought the article was rubbish and now can no longer find it but has anyone heard any credence to this rumor? The concept is dumb but kinda like a change for the character.

  9. #189
    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedQueen View Post
    . . . Abled bodied Oracle doesn't work and still having her chip work so she can still be Batgirl, most likely when her movie comes out and they can capitalize..... This is not a case when you can get the best of both worlds...
    But as had been previously suggested in her Batgirl series, and as now mentioned in Infinite Frontier #0, the spinal implant that allowed her to walk again has been having issues, so this way Barbara can still aid in the fight against crime without going into physical action all the time.
    It's probably the best compromise available at present: she can still be back in an Oracle role without totally giving up being Batgirl every now and then.

  10. #190

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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    But as had been previously suggested in her Batgirl series, and as now mentioned in Infinite Frontier #0, the spinal implant that allowed her to walk again has been having issues, so this way Barbara can still aid in the fight against crime without going into physical action all the time.
    It's probably the best compromise available at present: she can still be back in an Oracle role without totally giving up being Batgirl every now and then.
    Genuine question: what does ‘now and then’ mean, exactly to you and fans of a similar view?

    Because, as far as I’m concerned? It isn’t good enough.

    Tynion’s line “It’s not like this city is going to go wanting for a Batgirl” seems to tear down not just Babs in the role, but Cass and Steph as well. It makes them seem disposable, that the role doesn’t really matter...except it obviously does because everyone wants their absolute fave in the role.

    And even then: yes there’s two batgirls now. But they aren’t the same character. They aren’t interchangeable. Often, a lot of Batfam members only stick around for their favourite and that’s totally fine; but the thing is? Cass and Steph can do the exact same thing under any name.

    Barbara doesn’t get that luxury. She’s either stuck behind a screen, acting as exposition and commentating on characters who, in my opinion, do what she does less interestingly, or she gets to go out there and actually have her own story.

    This isn’t a compromise. This is Tynion misunderstanding what makes Barbara as Batgirl, Cass and Batgirl and Stephanie as Batgirl so special: what they bring to the role and how they operate. And the line about her only using the ‘costume’ so ‘judiciously?’

    Why does that feel like code for “We have the option because the higher ups made me and to shut Babsgirl fans up, but I’m never going to use it because I don’t see the value.”

    And if we’re gonna talk in terms of what’s a more ‘useful’ role...really? Tynion adding two or three or so more characters to fill these imaginary ranks automatically disqualified Babs from being able to do both Batgirl and Oracle work on the go? We can buy that Batman is the greatest detective ever, and Babs is the smartest and most capable woman in the world; but -only- if she’s permanently fixed to a screen? There is literally no other way to show this?

    And don’t even get me started on this able-bodied nonsense: Babs can be Batgirl or Oracle (preferably Batgirl to me though because it isn’t a sidekick role and means something completely different to Robin) in a wheelchair. We have adaptive technology, we’ve even been shown her doing wheelchair parkour AND wheelchair basketball: so how come we don’t get the idealised status that other athletes and strongmen get through Batman and Superman?

    Why can’t Batgirl be a paralysed identity? Why is it so important that she’s ‘behind the scenes’? Because it’s a ‘realistic’ portrayal? Or enabling of ableist views; because it’s so much easier to shut us away indoors than try to figure out how we move. Pretend it’s nobler that we act through our able-bodied counterparts than ever be offered the option of being just as valued on the field. We’re an invisible community, that’s true: but Barbara Gordon is a character who wouldn’t stand for it. She’s broken boundaries as Batgirl and Oracle, and this is -definitely- one she would be perfect to tackle. So, no. I don’t buy that this is the -only- compromise: I think Tynion just cares more about his nostalgic preferences than trying to really understand what makes Batgirl, all the Batgirls, soecial.

    They aren’t soldiers, they’re characters, an nobody’s getting their due being used like this.

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    Genuine question: what does ‘now and then’ mean, exactly to you and fans of a similar view?

    Because, as far as I’m concerned? It isn’t good enough.

    Tynion’s line “It’s not like this city is going to go wanting for a Batgirl” seems to tear down not just Babs in the role, but Cass and Steph as well. It makes them seem disposable, that the role doesn’t really matter...except it obviously does because everyone wants their absolute fave in the role.

    And even then: yes there’s two batgirls now. But they aren’t the same character. They aren’t interchangeable. Often, a lot of Batfam members only stick around for their favourite and that’s totally fine; but the thing is? Cass and Steph can do the exact same thing under any name.

    Barbara doesn’t get that luxury. She’s either stuck behind a screen, acting as exposition and commentating on characters who, in my opinion, do what she does less interestingly, or she gets to go out there and actually have her own story.

    This isn’t a compromise. This is Tynion misunderstanding what makes Barbara as Batgirl, Cass and Batgirl and Stephanie as Batgirl so special: what they bring to the role and how they operate. And the line about her only using the ‘costume’ so ‘judiciously?’

    Why does that feel like code for “We have the option because the higher ups made me and to shut Babsgirl fans up, but I’m never going to use it because I don’t see the value.”

    And if we’re gonna talk in terms of what’s a more ‘useful’ role...really? Tynion adding two or three or so more characters to fill these imaginary ranks automatically disqualified Babs from being able to do both Batgirl and Oracle work on the go? We can buy that Batman is the greatest detective ever, and Babs is the smartest and most capable woman in the world; but -only- if she’s permanently fixed to a screen? There is literally no other way to show this?

    And don’t even get me started on this able-bodied nonsense: Babs can be Batgirl or Oracle (preferably Batgirl to me though because it isn’t a sidekick role and means something completely different to Robin) in a wheelchair. We have adaptive technology, we’ve even been shown her doing wheelchair parkour AND wheelchair basketball: so how come we don’t get the idealised status that other athletes and strongmen get through Batman and Superman?

    Why can’t Batgirl be a paralysed identity? Why is it so important that she’s ‘behind the scenes’? Because it’s a ‘realistic’ portrayal? Or enabling of ableist views; because it’s so much easier to shut us away indoors than try to figure out how we move. Pretend it’s nobler that we act through our able-bodied counterparts than ever be offered the option of being just as valued on the field. We’re an invisible community, that’s true: but Barbara Gordon is a character who wouldn’t stand for it. She’s broken boundaries as Batgirl and Oracle, and this is -definitely- one she would be perfect to tackle. So, no. I don’t buy that this is the -only- compromise: I think Tynion just cares more about his nostalgic preferences than trying to really understand what makes Batgirl, all the Batgirls, soecial.

    They aren’t soldiers, they’re characters, an nobody’s getting their due being used like this.
    I don't understand the ableist issue in your text.

    The complaints I usually read are that Barbara in the wheelchair as Oracle is representation, so Barbara as Batgirl fighting in the streets takes away that representation.


    The Batgirl role matter because it is a popular brand name. However, the name isn't so important in-story, since there are many street fighter in Gotham.

    Honestly, I think Barbara could be a popular street fighter even with a new identity (in Future State Nightwing, she was Oracle and fights). However, it could be a risk.


    PS: It's true that Batgirl as identity doesn't born as a Batman's sidekick (although Bat-Girl was a sidekick) . However, the identity has been associated a lot with that aspect.
    Last edited by Konja7; 03-04-2021 at 11:28 AM.

  12. #192

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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    I don't understand the ableist issue in your text.

    The complaints I usually read are that Barbara in the wheelchair as Oracle is representation, so Barbara as Batgirl fighting in the streets takes away that representation.


    The Batgirl role matter because it is a popular brand name. However, the name isn't so important in-story, since there are many street fighter in Gotham.

    Honestly, I think Barbara could be a popular street fighter even with a new identity (in Future State Nightwing, she was Oracle and fight). However, it could be a risk.


    PS: It's true that Batgirl as identity doesn't born as a Batman's sidekick (although Bat-Girl was a sidekick) . However, the identity has been associated a lot with that aspect.
    The disabled community is it a monolith and more often than not those clamouring for the ‘representation’ are well meaning able-bodied fans who have no actual intention with following through with such representation: they just want Babs out of the way for their fave to take her place. Disingenuous as fuck. Don’t try to speak over us: a lot of us want more than to be shuttled off indoors, denied even the option to take on a costumed identity.

    And as to your other point: if Batgirl doesn’t matter then NONE of them matter. Nightwing matters less because he’s just a Batman lite. Signal doesn’t matter because he’s doing nothing different to Robin or Nightwing. Spoiler especially doesn’t matter because she offers nothing of value.

    You see how that logic reads?

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    The disabled community is it a monolith and more often than not those clamouring for the ‘representation’ are well meaning able-bodied fans who have no actual intention with following through with such representation: they just want Babs out of the way for their fave to take her place. Disingenuous as fuck. Don’t try to speak over us: a lot of us want more than to be shuttled off indoors, denied even the option to take on a costumed identity.

    And as to your other point: if Batgirl doesn’t matter then NONE of them matter. Nightwing matters less because he’s just a Batman lite. Signal doesn’t matter because he’s doing nothing different to Robin or Nightwing. Spoiler especially doesn’t matter because she offers nothing of value.

    You see how that logic reads?
    Well, the anti-Batfamily people wil agree with that logic.

    My point wasn't to dismiss Batgirl, but to mention that the main attractive why fans want the Batgirl identity is the brand name.

    I think Tynion was trying to imply Batgirl only offer another street fighter in-universe. That said, you could say most Batfamily members offer little variety in-universe.

    At the end, most people in comics follow the characters they like, not what they offer to the franchise.
    Last edited by Konja7; 03-04-2021 at 11:45 AM.

  14. #194

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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    Well, the anti-Batfamily people wil agree with that logic.

    My point wasn't to dismiss Batgirl, but to mention that the main attractive why fans want the Batgirl identity is the brand name.

    I think Tynion was trying to imply Batgirl only offer another street fighter in-universe. That said, you could say most Batfamily members offer little variety in-universe.

    At the end, most people in comics follow the characters they like, not what they offer to the franchise.
    Exactly and, unfortunately, seeing Babs in only a supporting role from here on out to two arguably less interesting characters isn’t good enough for her fans. Let them get their own identities, the only reason Batgirl is as big a name as it is is because of what Babs brought to it: a plucky, indomitable will with the utter drive to do what she believed was right.
    Last edited by Domino_Dare-Doll; 03-04-2021 at 11:49 AM.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    Exactly and, unfortunately, seeing Babs in only a supporting role from here on out to two arguably less interesting characters isn’t good enough for her fans. Let them get their own identities, the only reason Batgirl is as big a name as it is is because of what Babs brought to it: a plucky, indomitable will with the utter drive to do what she believed was right.
    To be fair, Barbara in a supporting role isn't really because Stephanie and Cassandra.

    Barbara/Batgirl comic wasn't selling good anymore. So, DC really needs a new direction for the brand in comics.


    I still think wee will see Barbara in street fights in the future.
    Last edited by Konja7; 03-04-2021 at 11:57 AM.

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