Barbara Gordon: Batgirl/Oracle Appreciation 2021

**Wingin' It** · 03-12-2021, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by Restingvoice

https://www.dccomics.com/reader/#/comics/468030

Babs and Dick's first meeting and the first time Babs saw Wayne Manor

I don't know if they ever portrayed the first time Babs saw the Manor. Info, Babs vet?

Hah! This is super cute.

**prepmaster** · 03-12-2021, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by Wingin' It

Is Batman a failed hero because he didn't try and kill the Joker? Babs holds the same no-kill rule as he does, and I'm pretty sure at this point Bruce has been, collectively, personally victimized more than Barbara was.

Batman goes on to stop the Joker more than Barbara has ever done. Even her dad put much more efforts to go after the Joker than she does. Barbara is a failed hero. She didnt even put that much effort to stop the Joker. She is the reason why her father has to go after the Joker.

Simple art speaks louder than thousands words. If you make her to be this empowering female figure and i give you this art as a reply, your reaction to the pic alone is hilarious. It shows how much it ticks you off. The thing about Batman is that he comes back to eventually fight against Bane. Barbara just comes back to be Batman's underling.

**Wingin' It** · 03-12-2021, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by prepmaster

Batman goes on to stop the Joker more than Barbara has ever done. Even her dad put much more efforts to go after the Joker much more than she does. Barbara is a failed hero. She didnt even put that much effort to stop the Joker. She is the reason why her father has to go after the Joker.

Simple art speaks louder than thousands words. If you make her to be this empowering female figure and i give you this art as a reply, your reaction to the pic alone is hilarious. It shows how much it ticks you off. The thing about Batman is that he comes back to eventually fight against Bane. Barbara just comes back to be Batman's underling.

I get that you only like Batman and none of his underlings, but if you've read any Batgirl or even BOP, you'd know Barbara has faced the Joker plenty of other times and kicked his ass.

Again, your arguments are pretty nonsensical because part of any hero's journey is to get back up when they are pushed down. It's what gives a story stakes. I know that Babs' injury wasn't made about her in TKJ, because it was a story about Batman and the Joker. That was more symptomatic of the editorial environment at the time "cripple the bitch", still can't believe those words were ever uttered. How is that reflective of Babs herself as a hero? "She is the reason her father has to go after the Joker" oh, so it's just that and not the hundreds of other people he's killed or maimed? Lol.

If you're gauging a hero's "failure" on letting their enemies escape/live another day, then Batman is the biggest failure there is. But who cares? Not a single fan in their right mind expects these stories to truly take interesting villains off the map for a prolonged period of time, the default is always status quo because these stories/characters never end.

**prepmaster** · 03-12-2021, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by Wingin' It

I get that you only like Batman and none of his underlings, but if you've read any Batgirl or even BOP, you'd know Barbara has faced the Joker plenty of other times and kicked his ass.

None of which is getting adapted. Her most popular story is where she got crippled. You run with one movie with her being so capable as a hero and then another movie where she gets crippled.

Besides what happens in Batgirl and BOP books is not gonna affect the mainline Batman books. Joker doesnt remember Batgirl kick his asses in those times. Its just mental masturbation for Batgirl fans. Giving her fans some cookies.

Im gauging the hero failure by the efforts they put into something and the results from those efforts. Batgirl didnt put that much efforts in comparision to the likes of Batman, Jason and her father.

**Wingin' It** · 03-12-2021, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by prepmaster

None of which is getting adapted. Her most popular story is where she got crippled.

TKJ isn't really "her" story though, is it? It never was intended to be. She was just used to kick off the plot/set the stakes.

If you're implying that her sum total character worth is represented by her notoriety from TKJ story, clearly many fans and DC disagree with you. She's one of DC's most popular female characters, and a new generation of girls are going to grow up watching cartoons like DCHSG and become Batgirl fans too. Older fans will see things like Oracle in the YJ animated series and newer comics and maybe connect with one of the few disabled heroines in comics.

Really, as a fan of Batman/DC, why does another character under that umbrella becoming popular threaten you? Shouldn't it be a good thing that something else DC is going/a character they're promoting is connecting with their target audience? It's just about "stepping on Batman's" toes for you it seems. Nevermind that Batgirl, all of the Robins, etc., have more than justified their existence by selling.

**prepmaster** · 03-12-2021, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Wingin' It

why does another character under that umbrella becoming popular threaten you? Shouldn't it be a good thing that something else DC is going/a character they're promoting is connecting with their target audience? It's just about "stepping on Batman's" toes for you it seems. Nevermind that Batgirl, all of the Robins, etc., have more than justified their existence by selling.

She is not even disabled so it just lessen the tragedy that the character suffers. She would have been way more compelling if she had stayed disabled but whats done is done. Putting her back on a chair isnt gonna fix it. Tynion just has the wrong approach. Its time to move on from Oracle and does something else with the character.

Its not that i dont want them to be popular but when i see their presence in Batman comics does not contribute something significant, i see them more as a burden that Batman has to carry. Batman stories have centered around the conflict between him and his villains. Batman is a good protagonist while his villains are good antagonists to the guy. When you add more into the mix, the story just loses its main focus.

Batgirl itself is a mess where 3 people are competing for the same mantle. They are stepping on each other's toes before stepping on Batman's. Batfam members books are not as sustainable as Batman's because they dont have villains that create good conflicts for these characters as protagonists. Sure on their own they could be interesting characters but when there is no good conflict, people would be less invested.

Rac7d* · 03-12-2021, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by prepmaster

She is not even disabled so it just lessen the tragedy that the character suffers. She would have been way more compelling if she had stayed disabled but whats done is done. Putting her back on a chair isnt gonna fix it. Tynion just has the wrong approach. Its time to move on from Oracle and does something else with the character.

Its not that i dont want them to be popular but when i see their presence in Batman comics does not contribute something significant, i see them more as a burden that Batman has to carry. Batman stories have centered around the conflict between him and his villains. Batman is a good protagonist while his villains are good antagonists to the guy. When you add more into the mix, the story just loses its main focus.

Batgirl itself is a mess where 3 people are competing for the same mantle. They are stepping on each other's toes before stepping on Batman's. Batfam members books are not as sustainable as Batman's because they dont have villains that create good conflicts for these characters as protagonists. Sure on their own they could be interesting characters but when there is no good conflict, people would be less invested.

Sounds like it’s time for you to walk away from the character and Batgirl brand

Babs isn’t going anywhere, she will be batgirl and Oracle
She is going to have a live action movie, continue appearing in animated series and games

She is beloved and will continue to be so

**Restingvoice** · 03-12-2021, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by Frontier

I wonder what she wants to tell him...

It's in one of the interview. About a new threat coming to Bludhaven. Don't remember the details, and I don't think they spoiled it, but I think it's also the reason why she's staying. The new enemy will take both of them to handle.

**prepmaster** · 03-12-2021, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Rac7d*

Sounds like it’s time for you to walk away from the character and Batgirl brand

Babs isn’t going anywhere, she will be batgirl and Oracle
She is going to have a live action movie, continue appearing in animated series and games

She is beloved and will continue to be so

Be Batman's underling and Joker's iconic victim.

Rac7d* · 03-12-2021, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by prepmaster

Be Batman's underling and Joker's iconic victim.

If that’s all you see her as the problem lies within you

**prepmaster** · 03-12-2021, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by Rac7d*

If that’s all you see her as the problem lies within you

How is it a problem? Barbara is the problem. They have her have sex with or kiss Batfam male characters so that when she suffers from tragedy, it would become a motive for the men to take action.

**MajorHoy** · 03-12-2021, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by prepmaster

How is it a problem? Barbara is the problem. They have her have sex with or kiss Batfam male characters so that when she suffers from tragedy, it would become a motive for the men to take action.

Can you remind me why you're spending so much time in a "BARBARA GORDON: BATGIRL/ORACLE APPRECIATION" thread?

**godisawesome** · 03-12-2021, 06:50 PM

This isn’t my idea, but rather someone I usually argue with about Star Wars, but I think you guys would love it, and I love it to.

You know what would have been better than Robin John Blake in TDKR?

Making it a grown up Barbara Gordon. She has a better reason to have quickly deduced who Batman was without it being awkward, greater reason to admire Batman, and to immediately seek his help when Commissioner Gordon gets hurt - mostly stemming from the climax of TDK.

What do you guys think?

**prepmaster** · 03-12-2021, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by MajorHoy

Can you remind me why you're spending so much time in a "BARBARA GORDON: BATGIRL/ORACLE APPRECIATION" thread?

Because appreciation thread should not be limited to just fangirling or mental masturbation. The thread should have engaging discussions where valid criticism is allowed.

**Pohzee** · 03-12-2021, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by godisawesome

This isn’t my idea, but rather someone I usually argue with about Star Wars, but I think you guys would love it, and I love it to.

You know what would have been better than Robin John Blake in TDKR?

Making it a grown up Barbara Gordon. She has a better reason to have quickly deduced who Batman was without it being awkward, greater reason to admire Batman, and to immediately seek his help when Commissioner Gordon gets hurt - mostly stemming from the climax of TDK.

What do you guys think?

I really actually love that idea. But I also think John Blake Robin was dumb

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