Barbara Gordon: Batgirl/Oracle Appreciation 2021

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

You do have a point I suppose. But in the case of Tim, he's still operating as a 'Robin'. So perhaps will have Babs operating as a 'Batgirl'. We'll have to wait and see how things turn out.

See, I’d believe you…if Tynion had been using her as Batgirl. But he hasn’t: even his mandate had Taylor cite her spinal implant for not using her as Batgirl in Nightwing, despite his promises that she’d “Be two active heroes.” Except that she hasn’t been. She’s just been behind the screen ordering the replacements to do things that she can easily do herself, better and with better plot.

[KrustyKid]

See, I’d believe you…if Tynion had been using her as Batgirl. But he hasn’t: even his mandate had Taylor cite her spinal implant for not using her as Batgirl in Nightwing, despite his promises that she’d “Be two active heroes.” Except that she hasn’t been. She’s just been behind the screen ordering the replacements to do things that she can easily do herself, better and with better plot.

Hopefully we see her in a more active role in FS

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Hopefully we see her in a more active role in FS

We won’t. It’s obvious.

[Godlike13]

We might, but probably not in Batgirls.

[Frontier]

I mean, she's got a new Batgirl suit now so it would be weird if she's the only one who doesn't wear it in Batgirls.

Although Tynion's leaving so probably any mandates he had (if there were any, I kind of doubt it) will go with him.

[Rac7d*]

We won’t. It’s obvious.

Is it ? Is it really ?

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Is it ? Is it really ?

Yes. How is it not to you? Between Tynion insisting that Babs is ‘better’ behind the computer in universe, and the constant citing of her spinal implant keeping her out of action despite everyone swearing up and down in interviews that “No! She’s still Batgirl!…Except we haven’t used her because x,y,z.” And only featuring Cass and Steph as “The Batgirls.” Then yeah; I’d say it’s obvious.

[Drako]

Barbara will suit up as Batgirl in the Fear State crossover, Bruno Redondo didn't design a new suit just for the covers.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Barbara will suit up as Batgirl in the Fear State crossover, Bruno Redondo didn't design a new suit just for the covers.

“For the fear state crossover.”

And after that? Given how the solicitations don’t refer to Babs as Batgirl, instead cite only Steph and Cass as “Batgirls”, it’s fair to say that this suit is only going to be making the covers, just like how Babs has only appeared on Nightwing covers as Batgirl, despite Taylor swearing up and down that she totally -was- going to be appearing as two active heroes. That turned out to be a crock of ****, eh?

That’s it. That is the extent of the action we’ll see. From here on out, say hello to supporting character Barbara: so important that she has to act as a background to two bantering twits.

[KrustyKid]

“For the fear state crossover.”

And after that? Given how the solicitations don’t refer to Babs as Batgirl, instead cite only Steph and Cass as “Batgirls”, it’s fair to say that this suit is only going to be making the covers, just like how Babs has only appeared on Nightwing covers as Batgirl, despite Taylor swearing up and down that she totally -was- going to be appearing as two active heroes. That turned out to be a crock of ****, eh?

That’s it. That is the extent of the action we’ll see. From here on out, say hello to supporting character Barbara: so important that she has to act as a background to two bantering twits.

Technically Steph is still Spoiler, not just in look, also that's what most people refer to her in story across the line. I disagree on the last part, Babs doesn't come off as a support character, she is just as main as the others/ even if she hasn't jumped into action as much as the others have recently. I have a good feeling that will change for the upcoming event.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Technically Steph is still Spoiler, not just in look, also that's what most people refer to her in story across the line. I disagree on the last part, Babs doesn't come off as a support character, she is just as main as the others/ even if she hasn't jumped into action as much as the others have recently. I have a good feeling that will change for the upcoming event.

She’s been exposition and that’s it. Support for other people, a means to tell other character’s stories rather than to facilitate her own. Yeah, she’ll be in action for the event: and the after it’ll be straight back to propping up other people.

Wouldn’t be surprised if Tynion wanted to use this as a way to push Babs’ implant to its’ fictional limits as a way for him to declare “Oh no! She can never be Batgirl again, even in a specialised wheelchair, she has to be immobile behind the desk forever while other people take over…”

Whether he gets his way or not remains to be seen, but that’s what the solicitations seem to pointing to—plus his emphasis on her ‘being in pain,’ apparently; and the contrast between Taylor promising her being active as Batgirl in his Nightwing run, but then making an excuse for why she couldn’t be. It’s obvious.

[Godlike13]

We’re all biased here.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Were all biased here.

Weirdly, you seem very objective. Good for you, I mean that.

[Frontier]

You absolutely did imply that: your go-to response was similar to here: “I don’t think Taylor would advertise her as Batgirl if he wasn’t going to do it.” And look what happened? A year in, an excuse later and we’re still waiting for her first appearance. You don’t seem to understand: this isn’t good enough, because it isn’t equal.

Emphasis on "think" because that's what I was assuming at the time. I'd have to read Fear State to gauge how she'll end up being used.

If Cass, Steph and Babs were treated like Tim and Robin, I.e, both getting to use the name and share it on their own adventures, then this would be fine. But as it is, you just echo a sentiment that’s so prevalent amongst Cass and Steph fans that even the head writer at DC shared it: that Barbara needs to step back.

Tim Drake is his own quagmire that I don't think really reflects on the situation. I don't think Babs needs to step back either and we'll see what they do once she gets in her suit.

For you, it’s ‘good enough’ that she’s a support character. Because that’s probably what you thought Batgirl was anyway; just support, rather than an independent entity all her own.

Uh...I've read all three of their solo books, though? Not sure where I gave that impression.

Because I didn't really take issue with Steph and Cass' use as Batgirl operatives for Barbara? I assumed that was building up to an actual series about them all together.

Babs absolutely can do both Oracle and Batgirl work…but she wasn’t being allowed by the head writer’s mandate. That’s the issue. And he even treated her time as Batgirl disrespectfully; he has Babs refer to it as “The costume” while Steph is badgering her to be called it, because it is that important, except not when Babs wants to use it. Then it’s a step down for some reason, despite the other two having their own names and doing **** all with them.

I never argued she couldn't do both. I understand Tynion's preferences even if I don't think he meant disrespect towards Barbara as Batgirl (although Steph called her Batgirl Prime, so...) or for her to be stepping down.

We don't mention Cass' other name.

Which is the point I’m making: this IS what Tynion has done and wanted to do. He paid lip-service to the idea of her still being Batgirl…except not really, because there was x, y and z wrong; she was never ‘needed’ when it would have been just as easy to write her coordinating on the go rather than being trapped behind a screen. And yet, you seem to either ignore this or just don’t care. You seem to constantly have an excuse for “Oh, it’s coming! It’ll TOTALLY happen…!” When all evidence points to the contrary?

I'm an optimist?

And yes. You are 100% biased; you don’t appreciate what Barbara stands for as Batgirl and seem to view it as an interchangeable role.

I appreciate Barbara Gordon and what she stands for as Batgirl. I have bought, read, and consumed numerous comics, books, and media with Barbara Gordon as Batgirl or Barbara Gordon-lead titles. So I think I appreciate her just fine even if I also appreciate her successors and what they brought to the table and their worth as Batgirls.

Additionally: what evidence do you have that supports the idea for Barbara being Batgirl AFTER Fear State? Especially when all “Batgirls” titled one-shots have only featured Cass and Steph being called and considered Batgirl? Why write the solicitation descriptions like that, differentiating Barbara, rather than calling all three Batgirl in one sentence?

They just debuted her new costume and it seems like we're finally getting a Batgirls book? They're probably differentiating Barbara because she's in charge and the lead.

[Rac7d*]

The war for batgirl is really heating up in here