Barbara Gordon: Batgirl/Oracle Appreciation 2021

[phonogram12]

I'm down with Ted Kord as her beau. Pre-52, I always thought they made a better couple than Babs and Dick, anyway.

[MajorHoy]

I'm down with Ted Kord as her beau. Pre-52, I always thought they made a better couple than Babs and Dick, anyway.

How old would Ted be these days, and how old would Babs be?

[Starrius]

IIRC, there were two Tamarannean characters. The other had hots for somebody so the relationship didn't work.

I think Roy and Starfire fit together. I don't think Roy's relationship with Cheshire is a big deal outside of Lian and his relationship with Donna Troy certainly isn't as big as Dick/Kory or Wally/Linda.



I know one other guy so that makes two. lol Yeah, it was casual sex between the two but I think with time it could have been something bigger. REBELS has to be one of the most underrated DC titles.

It's the adaptations that's kept Dick/Kory alive; the popular 2003 show and the Nu52 Titans movies. But the adaptations have also given equal love for Dick/Babs as well. So the fires keep burning.

I actually converted from being a Dick/Babs fan to being a Dick/Kory fan after reading the 1980-1996 Wolfman run comics and the The Judas Contract movie back in 2018 which led me to create a thread on them for Comic Vine.
Before that, I was a Dick/Babs fan for almost 20 years as the result of the Batman animated series.
Now I strongly dislike the pairing.

Dick/Kory is my 2nd favorite comic book pairing after Peter/Mary Jane. My 3rd favorite is Bruce/Selina. My 4th favorite is Scott/Jean. My 5th favorite is Clark/Lois.


I really like Barbara in the Titans show, but I definitely prefer Dick with Barbara as just a friend and Kory as his love interest.

[Restingvoice]

How old would Ted be these days, and how old would Babs be?

How old were they at the end of Post Crisis? Add 4 years.
Except Babs is now the same age as Dick.

[Majesty]

I actually converted from being a Dick/Babs fan to being a Dick/Kory fan after reading the 1980-1996 Wolfman run comics and the The Judas Contract movie back in 2018 which led me to create a thread on them for Comic Vine.
Before that, I was a Dick/Babs fan for almost 20 years as the result of the Batman animated series.
Now I strongly dislike the pairing.

Dick/Kory is my 2nd favorite comic book pairing after Peter/Mary Jane. My 3rd favorite is Bruce/Selina. My 4th favorite is Scott/Jean. My 5th favorite is Clark/Lois.


I really like Barbara in the Titans show, but I definitely prefer Dick with Barbara as just a friend and Kory as his love interest.

Everywhere else but the comics, that's how they've been portrayed essentially.

[Daedalus]

Everywhere else but the comics, that's how they've been portrayed essentially.

That is not exactly true - we’ve seen Babs and Dick together many times in other media: Young Justice, BTAS, Batman & Robin, the kid-oriented Lego Batman show and so on. Even Teen Titans Go references a future marriage between Nightwing and Batgirl. Jury is still out on Titans.

Their romance is part of each character’s mythology. If they’re around each other in the same adaptation, they’re usually paired up.

[Rac7d*]

That is not exactly true - we’ve seen Babs and Dick together many times in other media: Young Justice, BTAS, Batman & Robin, the kid-oriented Lego Batman show and so on. Even Teen Titans Go references a future marriage between Nightwing and Batgirl. Jury is still out on Titans.

Their romance is part of each character’s mythology. If they’re around each other in the same adaptation, they’re usually paired up.

That animated series from 2005 has a chokehold on some

[Majesty]

That is not exactly true - we’ve seen Babs and Dick together many times in other media: Young Justice, BTAS, Batman & Robin, the kid-oriented Lego Batman show and so on. Even Teen Titans Go references a future marriage between Nightwing and Batgirl. Jury is still out on Titans.

Their romance is part of each character’s mythology. If they’re around each other in the same adaptation, they’re usually paired up.

BTAS Barbara goes on to say that her love for Grayson was puppy love and she eventually grew out of it. And in Batman & Robin if we're talking about the movie, they aren't depicted as a couple.. and that's probably also a version of Batgirl that will never be seen or spoken of again

[Micael]

They should definitely let Babs have her age back. Don't know why they keep insisting in de-aging her, doesn't even make since since she was always supposed to be the grown independent woman that Batman couldn't just send home early because it's school night.

[ohfellow]

Starfire is just a weird case. Her and Dick don't really interact that much anymore. The Teen Titans Academy book is the first book and team that both Starfire and Dick have been on together since the New 52. The last time they were on a team together was when Dick was running around as Batman in that awful Titans series where Roy was taking super drugs and Deathstroke lost both of his eyes, lol.

Side note: Dick and Kory will be on the same team in Titans United (mini-series starting 9/14), though that's probably not set in continuity. I don't think it's a side adventure of the current Academy leadership, since it will include Superboy and Red Hood, and won't include Cyborg.

[Daedalus]

BTAS Barbara goes on to say that her love for Grayson was puppy love and she eventually grew out of it. And in Batman & Robin if we're talking about the movie, they aren't depicted as a couple.. and that's probably also a version of Batgirl that will never be seen or spoken of again

That is Batman Beyond Barbara - of course, I know it is all set in the same continuity, but the fact that Batman Beyond Barbara was not paired with Dick (who was nowhere to be seen in the cartoon) does not erase the fact that they were each other's main love interest in BTAS. It was also a plotpoint in the animated Mr. Freeze movie.

The quote you cite comes from the tie-in comics, if I'm not mistaken. The tie-in comics also go out of their way to show that, at least for Dick, it wasn't puppy love. He was going to marry her before she got pregnant with Bruce's child (which I don't think she had? What a nightmare of a storyline). In fact, Bruce characterizes Dick's relationship with Starfire (who is never mentioned by name) that way, saying to Barbara something along the lines of (am paraphrasing from memory): "[Dick]'ll come back [to you]; the thing with the alien won't last", as a brief allusion to Starfire. Either way, Dick is shown to have become a sad and bitter man because of the whole affair, which is understandable, considering this is evidently a sad and bitter timeline that got way out of hand.

I haven't seen Batman & Robin in over 15 years, but I remember some flirtation between the two characters, which is as much characterization as anyone in that movie got, but I guess your mileage may vary. And yes, I wholeheartedly agree, no one will ever miss this Barbara.

The other examples (Young Justice, Teen Titans Go, the kid-friendly Lego Batman shows) all depict the relationship as indisputably romantic, even when it's a meaningless D-plot.

Your post stated that they were usually depicted as platonic friends in other media. I meant to disagree with that impression, because we've seen them depicted in romantic relationships plenty of times. I did not mean and do not mean get into a shipping argument, since those things are personal preference. Besides, I think this is much more a function of which corner of the DC-universe Dick is in than anything else.

They should definitely let Babs have her age back. Don't know why they keep insisting in de-aging her, doesn't even make since since she was always supposed to be the grown independent woman that Batman couldn't just send home early because it's school night.

Babs has been the same age as Dick for a long time by now. I remember a storyline pre-New 52 in which Jim Gordon off-handedly mentions driving Barbara and Dick to prom together (maybe it was in Black Mirror?).

Besides, we know Bruce has been Batman since Babs was a child. There's only so much time that can pass before he gets old.

[Micael]

Babs has been the same age as Dick for a long time by now. I remember a storyline pre-New 52 in which Jim Gordon off-handedly mentions driving Barbara and Dick to prom together (maybe it was in Black Mirror?).

Besides, we know Bruce has been Batman since Babs was a child. There's only so much time that can pass before he gets old.

I think the story you're remembering is "The Black Mirror" and that was published in 2011 which in comics isn't really "a long time ago". Barbara was always at least a couple of years older than Dick but DC started to get uncomfortable with the idea of them two having a serious romantic relationship and her being that old so they started to gradually de-age her. It also happened to coincide with the de-aging of her dad, Jim Gordon who no longer had white hair and started to shy away from being an older almost father figure to Batman and steered towards being a younger less experienced partner to Batman.

Still even in the new 52 they still showed us that Gordon was at least old enough to be Bruce's father so we can assume that Barbara would most likely be in her teenage years when Bruce first put on the costume.

why-bruce-wayne-doesnt-trust-jim-gordon-new-52-1-e1574523658889.jpg

[Restingvoice]

I think the story you're remembering is "The Black Mirror" and that was published in 2011 which in comics isn't really "a long time ago". Barbara was always at least a couple of years older than Dick but DC started to get uncomfortable with the idea of them two having a serious romantic relationship and her being that old so they started to gradually de-age her. It also happened to coincide with the de-aging of her dad, Jim Gordon who no longer had white hair and started to shy away from being an older almost father figure to Batman and steered towards being a younger less experienced partner to Batman.

Still even in the new 52 they still showed us that Gordon was at least old enough to be Bruce's father so we can assume that Barbara would most likely be in her teenage years when Bruce first put on the costume.

Yeah it was Black Mirror, and in New 52 both Dick and Babs are already the same age. They were 15 in Zero Year, with James Jr. also aged up to be only about 2 years younger than them.

The current timeline is unclear. We just know that Dick and Babs are the same age, with Jim Gordon having red hair when Dick and Babs first met, but white hair in the present.

[Frontier]

I think the story you're remembering is "The Black Mirror" and that was published in 2011 which in comics isn't really "a long time ago". Barbara was always at least a couple of years older than Dick but DC started to get uncomfortable with the idea of them two having a serious romantic relationship and her being that old so they started to gradually de-age her. It also happened to coincide with the de-aging of her dad, Jim Gordon who no longer had white hair and started to shy away from being an older almost father figure to Batman and steered towards being a younger less experienced partner to Batman.

Still even in the new 52 they still showed us that Gordon was at least old enough to be Bruce's father so we can assume that Barbara would most likely be in her teenage years when Bruce first put on the costume.

why-bruce-wayne-doesnt-trust-jim-gordon-new-52-1-e1574523658889.jpg

New 52-wise I think all the sidekicks were within maybe 2-4 years age difference between each other because they had to fit in their costumed lives within a five year timeline (man, was that poorly thought out).

[Daedalus]

Yeah it was Black Mirror, and in New 52 both Dick and Babs are already the same age. They were 15 in Zero Year, with James Jr. also aged up to be only about 2 years younger than them.

The current timeline is unclear. We just know that Dick and Babs are the same age, with Jim Gordon having red hair when Dick and Babs first met, but white hair in the present.

Thanks to everyone who gave due credit to Black Mirror, it was indeed the case. Though Dick was Batman and Babs was paralyzed in that story, which means it was published before the New 52 reboot, which means Dick and Barbara were already of the same age before the linewide relaunch. So they must have been of the same age since the previous reboot (the Superboy Prime punch?).

Also, isn't some version of Year One back into canon now? That would mean Batman has been Batman since James Jr. was born. I don't really think it matters that much, and maybe DC is better off leaving canon in an a la carte state, but the idea is that Bruce is more of a Jim Gordon contemporary in age than he is Barbara's. Jim Gordon may have been 10-15 years older than Bruce Wayne, and the popcorn panel still works.