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  1. #556
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    Considering she’s probably cloned from the twins (insert Lannister joke), does Luminous count?

  2. #557
    Incredible Member teapartyofthedead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    Considering she’s probably cloned from the twins (insert Lannister joke), does Luminous count?
    If people really want to discuss Luminous (and what horrors she presents in how she was created) in terms of how she fits in with the House of M and if she’ll ever show up again, why not. Before anyone asks, Zaladane and Tuc (from Avengers #395) are fair game too.

  3. #558
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchfan View Post
    WandaVision success leads to continued comic sellouts and back orders
    https://www.gamesradar.com/wandavisi...d-back-orders/

    House of M is sold out at distributor level, but Marvel isn't rushing to print more. Maybe they want us to forget that this family existed.
    Quote Originally Posted by teapartyofthedead View Post
    Because to many, they are still a family. The book that began the concept of the House of M has run out at the distributor level, showing that people are still fascinated by the relationship with Magneto, Wanda, Pietro, and the boys.

    Marvel tries to have it both ways as well, with writers teasing further family drama in this era of X-Men and editors debating if they still count as mutants. How many games and toys still refer to them as a family, long after the retcon? A retcon that is was so unpopular, most donít think of it as valid. That there is this much level of interest six years after the retcon should be indicative of how strongly connected they are in the minds of fans and casual readers alike, who may come here to talk about.

    As long as that continues, I think talking about both twins here is just fine. But if the mods ever decided differently, then I suppose that would be it.
    It's circumstances like these that I really wish I had more insider information for Marvel comics because I still don't understand why the retcon of Magneto no longer being their father is still a thing. The original reason why the retcon happened was for stupid corporate reasons, so it wasn't as if the retcon was done with the intention of making better stories. While the reason for the retcon existing was always stupid, it makes even less sense for it to still be a thing now. I just want to know what's going through the editors or upper management's heads for keeping this retcon canon. The obvious assumption is that Marvel wants to keep Wanda and Pietro as close as their MCU counterparts, but even then that feels flimsy and thin. There has been more to it besides that and want to know if there are steps internally to reverse that retcon. I would understand more if the retcon was more popular received, but I don't think anyone liked it. I don't think some editors, a couple of writers, or Rick Remender, the writer who wrote that retcon in AXIS, like it, yet it persists.

    When Disney officially bought Fox, I thought it was only a matter of time before they got rid of the dumb retcon. However, we're few years out, and nothing has changed on that front. Marvel seems to have a wishy-washy stance on the whole thing, having merchandising and other things still label the Magnus family as thus, while still keeping them unrelated in the comics. It's this kind of inconsistency that makes the whole thing frustrating, and they can easily fix that by retconning the dumb retcon.

    On that note, it isn't as if Wanda and Pietro have had major appearances in the comics since the Fox Buyout. Heck, the Fox Buyout is only two years old at this point, so there still hasn't been a lot of time since. And decisions like that do take like a year of pre-planning before they are in published books. Not only that, 2020 kind of screwed over a lot of plans, so as is there's a full year short of wasted. At least that's my hope.

    Obviously, I'm complaining about something that most of us have already complained about in nausea before, but I'm at the point where I've become super impatient and no longer certain they will get rid of the retcon. I just want to know more of the inside baseball of the Marvel Comics management, and dive deep into the internal logic and reasoning for this retcon's continued existence.

  4. #559
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Bloodties was awesome, the very first crossover I read about the family it was like marvel writers finally realized that if anyone would dare to try to harm Luna you will have the Avengers, X-men, Inhumans, Wanda, Pietro, Crystal and Magneto looking for you so you better be careful.


    [QUOTE=Force de Phenix;5587532]They had a whole crossover event around Luna Maximoff in the 90's called Bloodties.

    /QUOTE]
    what is man that you are mindful of him,
    and the son of man that you care for him? Psalm 8

  5. #560

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    When Disney officially bought Fox, I thought it was only a matter of time before they got rid of the dumb retcon. However, we're few years out, and nothing has changed on that front. Marvel seems to have a wishy-washy stance on the whole thing, having merchandising and other things still label the Magnus family as thus, while still keeping them unrelated in the comics. It's this kind of inconsistency that makes the whole thing frustrating, and they can easily fix that by retconning the dumb retcon.
    The merchandise situation is a complete mess for the family. The Avengers merch are only Wanda and Pietro being related though characters like Luminous can appear as seen below.

    https://hallofheroeslcg.com/scarlet-witch/
    https://hallofheroeslcg.com/quicksilver/

    For X-Men merchandise they are allowed to use Wanda and Pietro even now. They are allowed to use their parentage too and they have and are still selling something akin to the original Brotherhood in merch. Lorna actually to date has gotten the short end of the stick out of this as they have presented it as just the twins and Mags. They might include blurbs about her parentage here and there, but they haven't presented all four together in any piece of merchandise outside of cards maybe a decade ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Witchfan View Post
    WandaVision success leads to continued comic sellouts and back orders
    https://www.gamesradar.com/wandavisi...d-back-orders/

    House of M is sold out at distributor level, but Marvel isn't rushing to print more. Maybe they want us to forget that this family existed.
    In the US you mean. Internationally there are new editions of HoM out all over the place this year. But, yes it is interesting how little merch of House of M Marvel has been willing to put out even though they know demand is there.
    Last edited by jmc247; 06-17-2021 at 06:55 AM.

  6. #561

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    I don't really see a reason for "counting" Zaladane or Luminous here. With Zaladane, the claim was that she's Lorna's sister, not that she's related to Magneto in any way. And it's a claim that lasted very briefly, is decades old, and hasn't been addressed in any way since. Not to mention her usage around Lorna in itself was mainly part of the beat-Lorna-down humiliation conga of stories at the time. Meanwhile, Luminous has no connection to Magneto at all. She's a supposed "sister" to the twins that was blatantly created and designed for the primary purpose of replacing Lorna in their lives after the Axis retcon. Luminous isn't part of building the family dynamics, she's part of trying to justify the retcon that claims the twins aren't part of the Magnus family at all.

    If the Axis retcon got undone and Luminous might therefore technically be related to Magneto, or something new came out that confirmed Zaladane is related to Magneto, then I could see reason for including them here. But since neither's the case, I don't see why they should "count" in an appreciation thread for the family. The purpose of the thread is appreciating the family, not bringing up characters that have been used for arguments to break it apart.
    Last edited by salarta; 06-16-2021 at 05:00 PM.
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  7. #562
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    The merchandise situation is a complete mess for the family. The Avengers merch are only Wanda and Pietro being related though characters like Luminous can appear as seen below.

    https://hallofheroeslcg.com/scarlet-witch/
    https://hallofheroeslcg.com/quicksilver/

    For X-Men merchandise they are allowed to use Wanda and Pietro even now. They are allowed to use their parentage too and they have and are still selling something akin to the original Brotherhood in merch. Lorna actually to date has gotten the short end of the stick out of this as they have presented it as just the twins and Mags. They might include blurbs about her parentage here and there, but they haven't presented all four together in any piece of merchandise outside of cards maybe a decade ago.



    In the US you mean. Internationally there are new editions of HoM out all over the place this year. But, yes it is interesting how little merch of House of M Marvel has been willing to put out even though they know demand is there.
    The Marvel United Board game also has Pietro and Wanda for X-Men. They are villains for the X-Men First Class extension, only available for Kickstarter. They were also heroes in the original Marvel United Kickstarter.

    I remember reading once on Bleeding Cool how there were talks about reversing the retcon, yet Marvel backtracked as they were worried about people being confused. Obviously, BC has spotty reliability, and I don't think people, in general, should really rely on that website for their comic news. But it's also the only thing I can go by, so the only thing I can speculate off is what they reported. I don't know who Marvel is trying not to confuse, as comic readers are very much aware that comics have different continuity than the movies. Not only that, I even think the average person can recognize the difference of continuities between print and movie. Is such a non-problem - Marvel is concerned with confusing imaginary people! It wasn't as if the retcon was confusing enough, especially since fans have spent decades believing it the other way in multiple media as is. Also, Wanda's and Pietro's backstory in the MCU was done out of necessity because they didn't own the rights to the X-Men. If they did, they would have totally made them mutants!

    I don't know, it's just frustrating and confusing. I really wish more stuff from the higher-ups would leak, as I am endless fascinated by this thought process.

  8. #563

  9. #564

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    Quote Originally Posted by teapartyofthedead View Post
    Because to many, they are still a family. The book that began the concept of the House of M has run out at the distributor level, showing that people are still fascinated by the relationship with Magneto, Wanda, Pietro, and the boys.
    All books involving Wanda sold out because of WandaVision.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  10. #565
    ᱬ Master Of Chaos ᱬ Cruelrain's Avatar
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    by Artist Peter V Nguyen:

    Sins of the father. The mutant dynasty also known as the The house of M.
    Magneto, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver and Polaris Gen 1 and 2 (headcanon)




    original post: https://twitter.com/petervnguyen/sta...340064768?s=20
    Last edited by Cruelrain; 06-18-2021 at 01:54 PM.

  11. #566
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  12. #567
    Incredible Member teapartyofthedead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    All books involving Wanda sold out because of WandaVision.
    While it’s true that WandaVision is the reason why it sold out, not all books with Wanda have sold out. Of the ones listed in the article, all but one of them focus on her familial relationship. Even then, her solo still covered family relations and how it affected her. This isn’t to say that Wanda wouldn’t be popular without House of M or Magneto like so many ill-informed people will insist, but that the books that people are buying are family related for the most part.

  13. #568
    Incredible Member teapartyofthedead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by transformers03 View Post
    The Marvel United Board game also has Pietro and Wanda for X-Men. They are villains for the X-Men First Class extension, only available for Kickstarter. They were also heroes in the original Marvel United Kickstarter.

    I remember reading once on Bleeding Cool how there were talks about reversing the retcon, yet Marvel backtracked as they were worried about people being confused. Obviously, BC has spotty reliability, and I don't think people, in general, should really rely on that website for their comic news. But it's also the only thing I can go by, so the only thing I can speculate off is what they reported. I don't know who Marvel is trying not to confuse, as comic readers are very much aware that comics have different continuity than the movies. Not only that, I even think the average person can recognize the difference of continuities between print and movie. Is such a non-problem - Marvel is concerned with confusing imaginary people! It wasn't as if the retcon was confusing enough, especially since fans have spent decades believing it the other way in multiple media as is. Also, Wanda's and Pietro's backstory in the MCU was done out of necessity because they didn't own the rights to the X-Men. If they did, they would have totally made them mutants!

    I don't know, it's just frustrating and confusing. I really wish more stuff from the higher-ups would leak, as I am endless fascinated by this thought process.
    I agree, I would pay a pretty penny to be a spider on the wall during the debates the writers and editors in both offices have on how they view and choose to depict the Maximoffs. But since we can’t, I can only follow interviews and speculate like everyone else. In the meanwhile, people can make it respectfully known to Marvel that we wish to see more of the Maximoffs and hope they find a receptive audience, or that an eventual changing of the guard will take place and allow the twins to see the light of day.

  14. #569
    Incredible Member teapartyofthedead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    I don't really see a reason for "counting" Zaladane or Luminous here. With Zaladane, the claim was that she's Lorna's sister, not that she's related to Magneto in any way. And it's a claim that lasted very briefly, is decades old, and hasn't been addressed in any way since. Not to mention her usage around Lorna in itself was mainly part of the beat-Lorna-down humiliation conga of stories at the time. Meanwhile, Luminous has no connection to Magneto at all. She's a supposed "sister" to the twins that was blatantly created and designed for the primary purpose of replacing Lorna in their lives after the Axis retcon. Luminous isn't part of building the family dynamics, she's part of trying to justify the retcon that claims the twins aren't part of the Magnus family at all.

    If the Axis retcon got undone and Luminous might therefore technically be related to Magneto, or something new came out that confirmed Zaladane is related to Magneto, then I could see reason for including them here. But since neither's the case, I don't see why they should "count" in an appreciation thread for the family. The purpose of the thread is appreciating the family, not bringing up characters that have been used for arguments to break it apart.
    I didn’t know they were trying to use Luminous as a replacement for Polaris, but as another way to degrade the twins. Remender really had the most terrible ideas, and it’s one I’m not sorry hasn’t been bought back. I don’t know much about Zaladane, but I don’t think she showed up in the X-Factor flashback to when Lorna’s mom and stepdad died. But I get what you’re saying, since neither are suggested or confirmed to be a part of the family through Magneto.

    This might be a moot point though, since no one seems to remember Zaladane or Luminous exist.

  15. #570

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    Quote Originally Posted by teapartyofthedead View Post
    I didnít know they were trying to use Luminous as a replacement for Polaris, but as another way to degrade the twins. Remender really had the most terrible ideas, and itís one Iím not sorry hasnít been bought back. I donít know much about Zaladane, but I donít think she showed up in the X-Factor flashback to when Lornaís mom and stepdad died. But I get what youíre saying, since neither are suggested or confirmed to be a part of the family through Magneto.

    This might be a moot point though, since no one seems to remember Zaladane or Luminous exist.
    I don't think there was ever any sort of explicit statement from anyone at Marvel regarding Luminous meant to be a replacement for Lorna, but I thought it was really obvious given the behavior of Avengers side Marvel at the time. First there's repeated efforts on those books to exclude Lorna from the Magnus family, even to the point of redrawing a portrait from House of M to remove her in Children's Crusade. Then Axis had a variant cover pairing Wanda and Enchantress that made Enchantress' hair look green (and Wanda's red), and the family retcon moment itself had Wanda claiming Magneto had no children at all. And then here comes Luminous, who's conveniently color-coded all blue to pair with Wanda being all red and Pietro at the time being all green. With all those cases, it was clear to me the thinking on Avengers side was "I think Polaris doesn't deserve to be related to or interact with any of these characters, but I begrudgingly recognize there's interest, so I have to figure out a way to simultaneously take advantage of that interest and kill it by replacing Polaris with someone else."
    I can also be reached on Twitter and WordPress. Avatar by Ty Romsa (not commissioned by me).

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad!

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