Magnus Family appreciation 2021

[Ferro]

I would prefer actual separation as in her functionally not existent to X-franchise, it's rather tiring to see X-books milking some one-sided hate boner.

unless you can remove her from the decimation thats just not possible lol.
She's not getting redeemed, it's near canon she thinks herself redeemed when the avengers forgave her, you can't expect writers not to tap into the Pretender, the vaunted avenger that in her lowest moment turned on mutants.
By uncanny avengers it's not one sided lol, she clearly has issues with mutants

[gurkle]

yeah thats just bizarre.
It cant be because hickman/x-men has dibs shes under brevoot who is a public rival that has allowed stories that mess up his plans (Phoenix/Franklin), so... what is it

That's the biggest mystery, yeah.

Rich Johnston mentioned in 2019 that Marvel had been planning to do a big Wanda/Pietro/Magneto story but abandoned it because of the MCU ("so as not to confuse people further"). So I think it could just be that when Wanda turned out to have an unexpectedly big future in the MCU, they dropped or postponed their ideas for an X-story but didn't replace it with anything. Brevoort clearly had no plans to use her -- I don't think "Darkhold" is from his office -- and he didn't change the plan.

They maybe just decided they'd wait and see what the MCU did with her and then figure out what to do next. Bucky and Sam are in a similar holding pattern, though this is disguised by the fact that they got a mini (but only because there was literally no other team-up material in comics for them to reprint, which isn't true of Vision and Wanda).

One way or another they've got this character who has suddenly become one of the most famous superpowered characters in the world, and they have literally nothing new to sell with her. Wild.

[Ferro]

That's the biggest mystery, yeah.

Rich Johnston mentioned in 2019 that Marvel had been planning to do a big Wanda/Pietro/Magneto story but abandoned it because of the MCU ("so as not to confuse people further"). So I think it could just be that when Wanda turned out to have an unexpectedly big future in the MCU, they dropped or postponed their ideas for an X-story but didn't replace it with anything. Brevoort clearly had no plans to use her -- I don't think "Darkhold" is from his office -- and he didn't change the plan.

One way or another they've got this character who has suddenly become one of the most famous superpowered characters in the world, and they have literally nothing new to sell with her. Wild.

Yeah comics, especially wanda, will always be confusing so that's an interesting excuse, at this point might as well create a new scarlet witch/reboot the character.

even tho I dont belive in bleeding cool most of the time I can see them droping any future x-stories with her, she's a witch in the mcu, a pretender in the x-men, its confusing as it is so many people buying her comics where she's a mutant
After franklin it's obvious non x-men mutants are inheritly risky to ever use in the x-men

[salarta]

The thing with Wanda, mutanthood and Decimation is, if she's a mutant then "no more mutants" (if reworked) can be a complicated look via allegory into how someone of a particular group can be led to look down on themselves and the group they're part of. The actual act of depowering mutants can be spun as "I wish I wasn't a mutant anymore" pushed to an extreme, whether by herself mistakenly wanting to "share" the feeling of freedom she wanted, or some sinister force (perhaps the magic itself) impacting her like a djinn twisting one's wish.

If she's not a mutant, then we get the "Pretender" narrative. Where she instead comes off as someone whose perceived mutant heritage worked as a cover to make her actions look like a mutant-internal problem that humans could easily ignore if they wished. Even if we say Wanda had absolutely no part to play in Decimation, that it was Mephisto or a Skrull or a wizard did it, Wanda still becomes a cautionary tale not to trust someone when they claim to be a mutant. She would still be seen as a poster enemy of mutants, representing the dangers of letting someone claim to be a mutant without challenging them on it. "Why should humans care about mutants after what the mutant daughter of one of their most iconic figures did to her own kind" very publicly in the Marvel world, while the "reality" that Wanda is neither a mutant nor Magneto's daughter slips under the radar very quietly, damage done and continuing to mount every year.

I think Wanda as a mutant can be redeemed for Decimation. Wanda as a non-mutant probably can't, and the poison to pick ranges from genocidal monster to pretender that made the aftermath of Decimation much worse and ruined public perception of mutants because of her false credentials.

Having said that, I'm also starting to think of how mutant haters might see Wanda in both scenarios. In the "Wanda is a mutant" scenario, mutant haters probably point to Wanda as an example of mutants being a menace even to themselves and why mutants need to be stopped before they do something that destroys humanity. Alongside Jean of course. In the "Wanda isn't a mutant" scenario, mutant haters probably idolize Wanda as a perfect example of all their hopes and aspirations, undeterred even if Wanda herself were to come out and denounce them vigorously. Though in this case, the "not a human" scenario is probably easier for Wanda to fix than the "Wanda's a mutant" one. Just have Wanda attacking such groups and shutting them down. Kinda hard to spin Wanda as your mutant hating queen when she's destroying your base because you hate mutants. But then she would also probably have to devote all/most of her time to that cause in such a case, whereas if she's a mutant then the best way for her to fix things is all sorts of good deeds.

[gurkle]

I'm on the train of believing that whether or not Wanda is a mutant is basically semantics at this point. According to the retcon, she's not a mutant, the High Evolutionary just altered her DNA so that she has the X-gene and she registers as a mutant on every single test and device... which to me really sounds like she is a mutant, just with a slightly different origin than most mutants.

I don't want her to have any more parentage retcons, ever -- I also hope the MCU sticks to its guns and leaves her with only one set of parents, no retcons, no nothing -- but I don't think they need to retcon anything to make her a mutant again.

That said, the Franklin Richards thing suggests that there is some kind of turf war between the editorial offices and that Brevoort wants any character he controls to be separated from the mutants, so I don't think that's going to change.

[Ferro]

The thing with Wanda, mutanthood and Decimation is, if she's a mutant then "no more mutants" (if reworked) can be a complicated look via allegory into how someone of a particular group can be led to look down on themselves and the group they're part of. The actual act of depowering mutants can be spun as "I wish I wasn't a mutant anymore" pushed to an extreme, whether by herself mistakenly wanting to "share" the feeling of freedom she wanted, or some sinister force (perhaps the magic itself) impacting her like a djinn twisting one's wish.

If she's not a mutant, then we get the "Pretender" narrative. Where she instead comes off as someone whose perceived mutant heritage worked as a cover to make her actions look like a mutant-internal problem that humans could easily ignore if they wished. Even if we say Wanda had absolutely no part to play in Decimation, that it was Mephisto or a Skrull or a wizard did it, Wanda still becomes a cautionary tale not to trust someone when they claim to be a mutant. She would still be seen as a poster enemy of mutants, representing the dangers of letting someone claim to be a mutant without challenging them on it. "Why should humans care about mutants after what the mutant daughter of one of their most iconic figures did to her own kind" very publicly in the Marvel world, while the "reality" that Wanda is neither a mutant nor Magneto's daughter slips under the radar very quietly, damage done and continuing to mount every year.

I think Wanda as a mutant can be redeemed for Decimation. Wanda as a non-mutant probably can't, and the poison to pick ranges from genocidal monster to pretender that made the aftermath of Decimation much worse and ruined public perception of mutants because of her false credentials.

Having said that, I'm also starting to think of how mutant haters might see Wanda in both scenarios. In the "Wanda is a mutant" scenario, mutant haters probably point to Wanda as an example of mutants being a menace even to themselves and why mutants need to be stopped before they do something that destroys humanity. Alongside Jean of course. In the "Wanda isn't a mutant" scenario, mutant haters probably idolize Wanda as a perfect example of all their hopes and aspirations, undeterred even if Wanda herself were to come out and denounce them vigorously. Though in this case, the "not a human" scenario is probably easier for Wanda to fix than the "Wanda's a mutant" one. Just have Wanda attacking such groups and shutting them down. Kinda hard to spin Wanda as your mutant hating queen when she's destroying your base because you hate mutants. But then she would also probably have to devote all/most of her time to that cause in such a case, whereas if she's a mutant then the best way for her to fix things is all sorts of good deeds.

She doesn't care about mutants, all she cares about is the avengers aproval that she already has.
these are pretty theories that aren't in line with any canon

[WallStreeter]

I'm on the train of believing that whether or not Wanda is a mutant is basically semantics at this point. According to the retcon, she's not a mutant, the High Evolutionary just altered her DNA so that she has the X-gene and she registers as a mutant on every single test and device... which to me really sounds like she is a mutant, just with a slightly different origin than most mutants.

I don't want her to have any more parentage retcons, ever -- I also hope the MCU sticks to its guns and leaves her with only one set of parents, no retcons, no nothing -- but I don't think they need to retcon anything to make her a mutant again.

That said, the Franklin Richards thing suggests that there is some kind of turf war between the editorial offices and that Brevoort wants any character he controls to be separated from the mutants, so I don't think that's going to change.

Franklin not being a mutant had to be approved by Feige himself. The Fantastic Four movie is now under development at MCU, and I’m sure it’s simpler to have Franklin with his family rather than on Krakoa.

Wanda’s situation is different, as the nature of her powers are origin story are already changing as of last Friday on WandaVision, and we will likely have more to come. It’s something we are simply going to have to wait to see to know for sure. Wandavision does have X-Men references and there is her role in the multiverse in Dr. Strange 2.

[gurkle]

Franklin not being a mutant had to be approved by Feige himself. The Fantastic Four movie is now under development at MCU, and I’m sure it’s simpler to have Franklin with his family rather than on Krakoa.

Wanda’s situation is different, as the nature of her powers are origin story are already changing as of last Friday on WandaVision, and we will likely have more to come. It’s something we are simply going to have to wait to see to know for sure. Wandavision does have X-Men references and there is her role in the multiverse in Dr. Strange 2.

Maybe I'm wrong but I doubt Feige really cares. He can do whatever he wants with MCU Franklin (if/when he arrives) because he controls all the characters. De-mutantizing comics Franklin is a way of keeping him out of the X-books or at least making it harder for them to use him.

It's not impossible that MCU Wanda could turn out to be a mutant -- with a mutant power to control chaos magic, like in the 1998 Avengers run they're pulling from -- but the purpose of the MCU's changes to her origin is to make her a witch with magic powers, where in the movie she was portrayed more like a mutant (in Civil War her powers are telekinetic and she's hated and feared by the public she's sworn to protect). So in the short term she'll be moving over to Doctor Strange's side of the MCU, and Marvel publishing must have known that from the moment Feige announced she'd be in the Strange sequel.

[Ferro]

Maybe I'm wrong but I doubt Feige really cares. He can do whatever he wants with MCU Franklin (if/when he arrives) because he controls all the characters. De-mutantizing comics Franklin is a way of keeping him out of the X-books or at least making it harder for them to use him.

It's not impossible that MCU Wanda could turn out to be a mutant -- with a mutant power to control chaos magic, like in the 1998 Avengers run they're pulling from -- but the purpose of the MCU's changes to her origin is to make her a witch with magic powers, where in the movie she was portrayed more like a mutant (in Civil War her powers are telekinetic and she's hated and feared by the public she's sworn to protect). So in the short term she'll be moving over to Doctor Strange's side of the MCU, and Marvel publishing must have known that from the moment Feige announced she'd be in the Strange sequel.

I genuinly think her days as a mutant are over, i saw a 4 k like tweet saying its anoying people think she's a mutant, she's a witch, filled with comments supporting the mcu's current version being aware she's not a mutant either on the comics.
Its becoming a status quo, a beloved one

[gurkle]

I genuinly think her days as a mutant are over, i saw a 4 k like tweet saying its anoying people think she's a mutant, she's a witch, filled with comments supporting the mcu's current version being aware she's not a mutant either on the comics.
Its becoming a status quo, a beloved one

I will say this, before 2021 it was possible that despite Wanda being in the MCU, she was still best known as Magneto's daughter. Her parts in the MCU were small, she was much more like a telekinetic mutant than a witch, and enough people had grown up with the X-Men cartoons that they figured she'd be revealed as Magneto's daughter once Fox got the X-Men rights back.

Assuming the last episode doesn't make her a mutant or Magneto's daughter... and they don't even have enough time to wrap up the actual plot, let alone introduce twists like that... it's a game changer because suddenly she's a super-famous star character (which is why you see so many people surprised that Elizabeth Olsen is Mary-Kate and Ashley's sister -- even people who saw the Marvel movies didn't remember her being in them until now), and "Scarlet Witch" is officially not a mutant code name but a title given by magical witches to a magical witch.

That will have a big impact on how she's perceived going forward. It may also create a weird situation where people don't even think of her and Quicksilver as being from the same background, because the most famous version of Quicksilver is Magneto's child and a mutant. It would be insane for the comics to try and make Pietro a mutant and Wanda not a mutant, but they're such copycats I can't rule it out.

[Ferro]

I will say this, before 2021 it was possible that despite Wanda being in the MCU, she was still best known as Magneto's daughter. Her parts in the MCU were small, she was much more like a telekinetic mutant than a witch, and enough people had grown up with the X-Men cartoons that they figured she'd be revealed as Magneto's daughter once Fox got the X-Men rights back.

Assuming the last episode doesn't make her a mutant or Magneto's daughter... and they don't even have enough time to wrap up the actual plot, let alone introduce twists like that... it's a game changer because suddenly she's a super-famous star character (which is why you see so many people surprised that Elizabeth Olsen is Mary-Kate and Ashley's sister -- even people who saw the Marvel movies didn't remember her being in them until now), and "Scarlet Witch" is officially not a mutant code name but a title given by magical witches to a magical witch.

That will have a big impact on how she's perceived going forward. It may also create a weird situation where people don't even think of her and Quicksilver as being from the same background, because the most famous version of Quicksilver is Magneto's child and a mutant. It would be insane for the comics to try and make Pietro a mutant and Wanda not a mutant, but they're such copycats I can't rule it out.

see normally id say mcu synergy is dead, carol's half kree, widow isnt being replaced and the guardians have a personality once more, but to put it in a plain way that isnt malicious, wanda's case is difrent because clearly no one wants to use her, so if she is used it's probably to mirror that mcu wave, in that case it makes sense to continue what the show has established.

And no one cares about pietro.

[GenericUsername]

unless you can remove her from the decimation thats just not possible lol.
She's not getting redeemed, it's near canon she thinks herself redeemed when the avengers forgave her, you can't expect writers not to tap into the Pretender, the vaunted avenger that in her lowest moment turned on mutants.
By uncanny avengers it's not one sided lol, she clearly has issues with mutants

I've honestly thought at times the character needs a full reboot, and not just because they made a mess out of her with AD/HoM. She's just riddled with so many retcons that people don't know what's true for her anymore. And it's difficult for people to get started reading the character. But of course, they'd likely just make a mess of things again.

[GenericUsername]

Franklin not being a mutant had to be approved by Feige himself. The Fantastic Four movie is now under development at MCU, and I’m sure it’s simpler to have Franklin with his family rather than on Krakoa.

Wanda’s situation is different, as the nature of her powers are origin story are already changing as of last Friday on WandaVision, and we will likely have more to come. It’s something we are simply going to have to wait to see to know for sure. Wandavision does have X-Men references and there is her role in the multiverse in Dr. Strange 2.

It didn't change the nature of her powers but expanded on it like it did in comics when it introduced Chaos Magic. Because it doesn't replace the stone. It works with it. Like chaos magic worked with her mutant powers in comics before the latest retcon. They've always talked about her latent abilities. It's just that she's a nature magic user. Without having to cast spells, just like they established with the Chthonic origin. Since Strange is primarily magic, her role there is likely learning more about her powers and helping him defeat an unspeakable evil. The synopsis of his film is not about her or her origin. But Mordo making him unleash that unspeakable evil. Which was a description given to Shuma-Gorath. I fully expect Strange 2 to be focused on Strange and his support cast and villains. Since everyone theorized everyone would be in WandaVision that's never appeared.

[gurkle]

They might eventually need to just throw in the towel and do Wanda's version of the "replaced by a Skrull" story, which of course in her case would be that she was replaced by her evil alternate-universe counterpart Lore (from Abnett and Lanning's 1993 Scarlet Witch miniseries, the only solo series she had until 2015), and the real Wanda got stuck in an alternate reality on her way back from the DC Universe in JLA/Avengers. Stories where Wanda was acting more in-character could be explained by Wanda overwriting Lore's personality with her own.

I've liked some of the stories Wanda has been in since JLA/Avengers, but I have to admit that she could use a clean start and there's really no way to do it short of just having a do-over.

[Ferro]

were she a mutant, an otherworld ressurection would be a solution, now... not so sure