Jason Todd: Robin, Red Hood, Arkham Knight Appreciation 2021

[Korath]

Yeah, Jason moving away from the Bat for a while - a good long while - would do wonder for the character. He doesn't need to be constrained by Batman's code and ethos. We saw with the Outlaws, especially Artemis and Bizarro, that he can have some wonderful development as a human character without Bruce, but he is so often regressed when he's around him... I don't think he needs the craziest villains and the highest stakes stories, he works best when he's dealing with other characters who have been cracked by life, disregarded and sometimes lashes out at the world in relatable ways.

Also, I know I'm in a minority, but his current attire has really grown on me and it'd be strange now to return to the older look I think. Not that he can't change it again, but if he does, I'd like him to continue evolving his style, you know ?

[Sergard]

Greg Hopwood (Costume Concept Artist for The Boys, Titans, Doom Patrol, and Superman & Lois) had posted a final fitting look of the Red Hood costume on Instagram (Bleeding Cool news article). The original post was deleted but I could find a screenshot on Twitter.

The helmet looks smaller compared to the promo photo. But maybe that's just the weird angle from below.






Some off-topic notes because I know some people in this thread will be interested in the following:

1) According to the April solicitations, Artemis is going to appear in Sensational Wonder Woman#2. But the solicitation sounds very bland. Looking at the covers (Artemis is on the main and the variant cover together with Diana), Artemis is back to her Rebirth look. Mistress is there too, altough the axe looks small.

written by ANDREA SHEA
art and cover by BRUNO REDONDO
variant cover by JOSHUA "SWAY" SWABY
ON SALE 4/6/21
$3.99 US | 32 PAGES | FC | DC
DIGITAL FIRST
Wonder Woman receives a distress call from Artemis…on Warworld! In order to escape Mongul's clutches, the two Amazons will have to put aside their differences and find a way to work together.

2) Batman: Urban Legends #2 has a second variant cover with Katana. I just wanted to point it out. I personally was confused at first because I only new about the Red Hood/Grifter cover and felt like the Outsiders story wasn't treated "fairly" regarding cover space.

3) It looks like Chip Zdarsky is going to team up with Michael Walsh for an Image comic, probably something with zombies. (source: Twitter) I don't know if this means anything for Chip Zdarsky's work/s for DC.

[Arsenal]

Before Jason permanently moves on to a new costume, I do hope whoever’s writing him offers insight on why (in universe) the choice was made (both to the new outfit and why he’s moving on to a new one). It’s no big deal if that doesn’t happen, it’s just a personal preference.

Since Zdarsky has Jason & Bruce at odds to some degree over him (seemingly) killing somebody, I hope he uses it to bring some closure to RHATO 25. Or just some of the overall issues in their relationship in general. Having them actually confront and address these issues on the page would be nice.
a call back to issue 25 so we can get some proper closure to that.

[Rise]

Oh, man, that reconciliation in the diner was really weird, yeah. Out of nowhere and rushed, it diminished whatever significance Bruce's awful demeanor against Jason might have had in the short or long run (to then return to a more hostile environment during the Prince of Gotham arc). Regarding TTJ, I honestly liked how Batman wasn't his usual self regarding Jason's M.O., how he tried to be understanding and rational about where he's coming from (which was extra needed considering who the three of them were dealing with in this story). So yeah, it was dissapointing to see what was ultimately made of that, the ending wasn't great for Jason as a whole. Had forgotten about Leviathan lmao.

In any case, I love Batman. I'd say he's my favourite character in comics (even if I feel more strong opinions regarding Jason, also a favourite of mine). While greatly helped by some great stories, supporting characters and rogues, Bruce's the biggest reason why Gotham-related stories are my favourite, along with X-Men ones. So it's frustrating when they can't get his relationship with Jason to a place beyond the usual surface-level dynamics that dwell on the same thing over and over with, as you said, no logical or cathartic conclusion.

I have little hope that Urban Legends will mean a change in their status quo, but it's cool to dream. At least, judging the writer, it'll finally be a story I like (most likely).

At the end of the day, I guess it's a narrative lack of interest, both by DC and writers who either don't really care much for the relationship/Jason or, imo, simply don't have enough nuance or solid ideas to pull something off, which is what happened in his ongoing.

I think it's pretty much this plus not many writers dare to call out Batman on his bs which you need to if you want to write about their relationship and what happened between them. As long as writers aren't willing to address Batman's mistakes with Jason, we will not get a nuanced take on them.

And that's not just on the writers, some fans seem to hate when their favourites have flawless and then they pretend that they like characters to be three-dimensional.

[Sergard]

Before Jason permanently moves on to a new costume, I do hope whoever's writing him offers insight on why (in universe) the choice was made (both to the new outfit and why he's moving on to a new one). It's no big deal if that doesn't happen, it's just a personal preference.

I'd like that too. It doesn't even have to be something incredibly deep or complex. Jason's outfits are foremost practical. The current outfit is practical as a road trip costume when Jason has to travel light or needs to have a costume that he can hide easily. Without the mask, the logo, gloves and bandages it even looks like something a civilian could wear (I personally prefer costumes that incorporate some "normal" clothes compared to the classic skintight bodysuit with optional cape). But it's not a practical outfit when he has to investigate a drug case in a city where he has to consider that he'll probably encounter many armed criminals and/or have to fight in narrow spaces. Jason is showing way too much unprotected skin.

Since Zdarsky has Jason & Bruce at odds to some degree over him (seemingly) killing somebody, I hope he uses it to bring some closure to RHATO 25. Or just some of the overall issues in their relationship in general. Having them actually confront and address these issues on the page would be nice.
a call back to issue 25 so we can get some proper closure to that.

Doubtful for more than one reason:
a) Zdarsky is a Batman fan. If anybody is going to look good at the end of the story, it will be Bruce.
b) Zdarsky probably doesn't even know about RHatO #25.
c) RHatO #25 isn't even Top 5 of awful things Bruce has done to Jason. Or Top 10 of awful stuff Jason had to endure thanks to the bat cult. I'd like to have closure for a lot of stuff. But so far DC has done the following in the last 30+ years: Ignored it, acted like there is no problem or even doubled down on some of the most horrendous parts.

[TooFlyToFail]

In Batman Incorporated, Jason gave Talia a chance to walk away because he owes her. She didn't and was shot by Kathy. After that they haven't interacted again as far as I know.

Which was just a waste.

[TooFlyToFail]

I was thinking... Tim doesn't seem to have anything going for him either yet.

Guys, what if they put both reds in a buddy cop book? Not going to happen, but... what ifff...

(Again, sorry for all this double posting)

Sorry, but no. That would only water down Jason as character and his stories. Jason needs more nuanced and darker stories, and Tim is a goody goody. Nope, sorry.

Only Bat Family member that works with Jason, imo, is Cassandra Cain.

[TooFlyToFail]

I'd put money on Jason being the Deathstroke look-alike on that Robin cover of Damian's series next to Rose. Williamson is writing Jason and Rose together in Future State, and it isn't a stretch to have Jason get involved in some Talia/League of Assassins stuff. He feels like the most likely candidate.

Better anything he's done in years, honestly.

[Jackalope89]

Sorry, but no. That would only water down Jason as character and his stories. Jason needs more nuanced and darker stories, and Tim is a goody goody. Nope, sorry.

Only Bat Family member that works with Jason, imo, is Cassandra Cain.

Honestly, wouldn't mind an Elseworld series where Jason is Robin and Cass is Batgirl at the same time, as Pre-Flashpoint, they were practically the same age. Not calling for a ship at all, just a team up.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Sorry, but no. That would only water down Jason as character and his stories. Jason needs more nuanced and darker stories, and Tim is a goody goody. Nope, sorry.

Only Bat Family member that works with Jason, imo, is Cassandra Cain.

Nonsense, Jason is a strong enough character to have all kinds of stories, and quite frankly, I'm sick and tired of having him stuck always on the same angsty stories where he's the misunderstood, edgy, black-sheep of the family.

I don't think that Cassandra brings something really worthwhile to the table far as interacting with Jason goes, they too similar to have a compelling interaction and it would get old fast. Is the contrast between the characters what makes the relationships work, that is why both Outlaws teams worked so well since all of the played each other in interesting and compelling ways. In that same vein, is why Tim and Jason's bromance also works really well since they are great foils for each other and complement each other in ways they can't get from Dick and Damian.

[Bad Witch]

Nonsense, Jason is a strong enough character to have all kinds of stories, and quite frankly, I'm sick and tired of having him stuck always on the same angsty stories where he's the misunderstood, edgy, black-sheep of the family.

I don't think that Cassandra brings something really worthwhile to the table far as interacting with Jason goes, they too similar to have a compelling interaction and it would get old fast. Is the contrast between the characters what makes the relationships work, that is why both Outlaws teams worked so well since all of the played each other in interesting and compelling ways. In that same vein, is why Tim and Jason's bromance also works really well since they are great foils for each other and complement each other in ways they can't get from Dick and Damian.

How would you go about doing something different with him. I'm genuinely curious?

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

How would you go about doing something different with him. I'm genuinely curious?

Well, the mythical and space adventures angles used by Lobdell are already a great example. But generally, I'd have Jason as a globe-trotting adventurer on small, self-contained adventures that change according to the setting and location. I'm spitballing here but something like one adventure takes him to the deep jungles of Mexico where he gets involved with a tribe of Mayans trying to bring forth a demon/god to destroy the world. Another takes him to Rusia where he comes to blows with the Russian Mafia, then he goes to Japan and has to fight onis, and so on.

EDIT:

[ Todd ]

Seeing red again

https://twitter.com/NikolaCizmesija/...84666032885762

[Sergard]

Sorry, but no. That would only water down Jason as character and his stories. Jason needs more nuanced and darker stories, and Tim is a goody goody. Nope, sorry.

Only Bat Family member that works with Jason, imo, is Cassandra Cain.

Isn't Cass an even bigger "goody goody" than Tim? Cass has teared off the bat logo from Batwoman's chest after Kate "killed" Clayface. The story is bad and makes Cass look like a maniac that's obsessed with a stupid symbol - but it's a theme that I feel somehow reoccurred in other stories too.

To be honest, I wouldn't even call Tim a "goody goody". He's "good" - but so is Jason. They are just "good" in different ways.

[Pohzee]

I'm obviously biased here, but I think Dick's color scheme compliments Jason's (black with red/blue logo) and they seeming fall on opposite sides of Batman's graces. That to me would be the most interesting contrast and dynamic for Jason to have IMO, even though I'm not too sure I really want to see it. Jason imo is treated more on equal standing to Dick than Tim anyway with his degree of respect and independence.

[Zaresh]

Isn't Cass an even bigger "goody goody" than Tim? Cass has teared off the bat logo from Batwoman's chest after Kate "killed" Clayface. The story is bad and makes Cass look like a maniac that's obsessed with a stupid symbol - but it's a theme that I feel somehow reoccurred in other stories too.

To be honest, I wouldn't even call Tim a "goody goody". He's "good" - but so is Jason. They are just "good" in different ways.

I think she was less... radical and more, hum, grey I guess? Before New 52. I could be wrong, but as far as I've understood by people's comments and stuff, she was.

But then, Tim was more practical and less of an idealist before New 52 too, so...