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  1. #1696
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Because yes, Jason has a pathological fear of crowbars .

    Were rubber bullets too much for people?
    It the fate of anti heroes in todays market you either conform like jason or end up a prop like poison Ivy

  2. #1697
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    It the fate of anti heroes in todays market you either conform like jason or end up a prop like poison Ivy
    Which is weird because the Gotham Knights game is going full-bore with the guns.

  3. #1698
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    Lmao! That panel was legit funny.

    Such a dick move.

  4. #1699
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    The Nightwing Special wasn't bad, but yeah. The reasoning for the crowbar is shady, at best. And it was the reason I feared it would be. Outside of that bit, it wasn't bad. And it at least brought one thing around full circle.

  5. #1700
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    Still, the book is good and Taylor seems to understand Jason better than Rosenberg and Zdarsky do but again, I doubt he finds Jason to be interesting. His explanation for Jason using crowbars is pretty dumb and he seemingly hates it too if the way Dick mocks him is any indication.
    Yeah by that logic Batman should be dressing as a magnum

    Private Investigator of The Night

    or use a gun
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 11-30-2021 at 10:47 AM.

  6. #1701
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Yeah by that logic Batman should be dressing as a magnum

    Private Investigator of The Night

    or use a gun
    Well, he originally did. It didn't last long, but still.

  7. #1702
    Astonishing Member Dark_Tzitzimine's Avatar
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    That's also why I liked Lobdell retcon for the reason Jason became the Red Hood. It was not just to overcome his fear but as another way to screw with the Joker by taking away something from him and using it for doing good.

  8. #1703
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    I read the Nighwing annual already. It was ok. Not much subtle writing there, but I don't think it needs to be. It's better than what I've read of Taylor in Jason before, for sure. Taylor's Jason is a brawler, an acrobatic brawler, but he's definitely not the one doing detective work in this story. Or leading the investigation, or even being analytical and strategical. But alas, this is to be expected, and I guess it's fair: it's Dicks book after all. I wish it was like in Seeley's short story for Gotham Nights where they shared the investigation, but, well... Again, it's fair: it's Dicks book \o/. He leads and does most of the shinny work.

    I enjoyed this read. I hold small "but"s, like revisiting again the "Jason was a violent kid because of his personal trauma", but it is again a thing that's going to be repeated now and them because that's one of his usual themes for most writers. If it wasn't really a problem for me in Cheer with Zdarsky, isn't do here either. Also, I liked how Taylor acknowledged that, for all the blame they put on Jason being brutal with his weapons, it's not like any of them are soft either. Those sticks hit hard, same as any or Bruce punches, or Damian's swords, or Tim's staff.. It was a nice nod.

    At the moment, this is third place for me on the scale of "What writer I'm enjoying more writing Jason". A bit above Seeley's Robins, but below Rosenberg's and Williamson's work.
    Last edited by Zaresh; 11-30-2021 at 01:18 PM.
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  9. #1704
    Astonishing Member Dark_Tzitzimine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
    I read the Nighwing annual already. It was ok. Not much subtle writing there, but I don't think it needs to be. It's better than what I've read of Taylor in Jason before, for sure. Taylor's Jason is a brawler, an acrobatic brawler, but he's definitely not the one doing detective work in this story. Or leading the investigation, or even being analytical and strategical. But alas, this is to be expected, and I guess it's fair: it's Dicks book after all. I wish it was like in Seeley's short story for Gotham Nights where they shared the investigation, but, well... Again, it's fair: it's Dicks book \o/. He leads and does most of the shinny work.

    I enjoyed this read. I hold small "but"s, like revisiting again the "Jason was a violent kid because of his personal trauma", but it is again a thing that's going to be repeated now and them because that's one of his usual themes for most writers. If it wasn't really a problem for me in Cheer with Zdarsky, isn't do here either. Also, I liked how Taylor acknowledged that, for all the blame they put on Jason being brutal with his weapons, it's not like any of them are soft either. Those sticks hit hard, same as any or Bruce punches, or Damian's swords, or Tim's staff.. It was a nice nod.

    At the moment, this is third place for me on the scale of "What writer I'm enjoying more writing Jason". A bit above Seeley's Robins, but below Rosenberg's and Williamson's work.
    Jason has never been shown doing any detective work by Zdarsky or Rosenberg either, and as matter of fact, he even bungled the investigation on Cheer by being a hothead ass that couldn't follow Bruce's indications. It is quite telling that the copycat Jason here acts more like Jason did in Urban Legend and the Road to Task Force Z, down to the guy messing with an FBI undercover operation.

    As an aside, I was finally linked to concrete evidence about WB's new stance on guns

    https://www.toyfarce.com/news/dcwarn...s-toys-protest
    Last edited by Dark_Tzitzimine; 11-30-2021 at 01:26 PM.

  10. #1705
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    Jason has never been shown doing any detective work by Zdarsky or Rosenberg either, and as matter of fact, he even bungled the investigation on Cheer by being a hothead ass that couldn't follow Bruce's indications. It is quite telling that the copycat Jason here acts more like Jason did in Urban Legend and the Road to Task Force Z, down to the guy messing with an FBI undercover operation.

    As an aside, I was finally linked to concrete evidence about WB's new stance on guns

    https://www.toyfarce.com/news/dcwarn...s-toys-protest
    Ok, so what was that when he was looking for suspects in Cheer, following thugs and interrogating them? At the start of the story? Or when he was investigating the doctor in Gotham University, looking for clues about the case? Or when he decided to go with the isolating barsuit to meet Freeze.

    I mean, I remember the story, not crystal clear, but I do remember the issues as a whole. I love, Love, detective work. And I remember being quite happy because he did detective work in there. And put together a plan. The only time he didn't was when he lost it because of the kid Which as I said before back in the day, it's really understable and also the same that happened when he read the letter by Willis before he went to shot Penguin.

    And as for Task Force Z, just want to point out, that he did some detective work in the prologue. It's mostly off-panel, I yield there. But he worked the investigation for Dev, and with Dev for a few moments, even. And then, TFZ has barely started, and is mostly action oriented. I can admit that there Jason seems a bit naive; but it's just two issues in, and I think it goes for Jason involving himself more in knowing what's going in there.

    No surprises about the guns standing.
    Last edited by Zaresh; 11-30-2021 at 01:45 PM.
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  11. #1706
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    Jason has never been shown doing any detective work by Zdarsky or Rosenberg either, and as matter of fact, he even bungled the investigation on Cheer by being a hothead ass that couldn't follow Bruce's indications. It is quite telling that the copycat Jason here acts more like Jason did in Urban Legend and the Road to Task Force Z, down to the guy messing with an FBI undercover operation.

    As an aside, I was finally linked to concrete evidence about WB's new stance on guns

    https://www.toyfarce.com/news/dcwarn...s-toys-protest
    So...better alternative weapons than a crowbar?

  12. #1707
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    So...better alternative weapons than a crowbar?
    Jason can be a jack of all trades.
    I find knives appealing, or chains. Or a bat. But really, let him have a large range of weaponry to work with. Jason's trademark is his helmet or mask.
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  13. #1708
    Astonishing Member Dark_Tzitzimine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
    Ok, so what was that when he was looking for suspects in Cheer, following thugs and interrogating them? At the start of the story? Or when he was investigating the doctor in Gotham University, looking for clues about the case? Or when he decided to go with the isolating barsuit to meet Freeze.

    I mean, I remember the story, not crystal clear, but I do remember the issues as a whole. I love, Love, detective work. And I remember being quite happy because he did detective work in there. And put together a plan. The only time he didn't was when he lost it because of the kid Which as I said before back in the day, it's really understable and also the same that happened when he read the letter by Willis before he went to shot Penguin.

    And as for Task Force Z, just want to point out, that he did some detective work in the prologue. It's mostly off-panel, I yield there. But he worked the investigation for Dev, and with Dev for a few moments, even. And then, TFZ has barely started, and is mostly action oriented. I can admit that there Jason seems a bit naive; but it's just two issues in, and I think it goes for Jason involving himself more in knowing what's going in there.

    No surprises about the guns standing.
    He was running around beating people up, then he killed Taylor's dad and spent an entire issue boring on his hideout thinking about how badly he had messed up. Bruce is the one that procures a sample f Cheer, analyzes it, and makes the connection with Crane's toxins. He then goes with Jason and tries to speak with him but Jason once again lashes out and is until Taylor gets involved that they stop and agree to work together. Bruce then shares the results of his analysis with Jason who only points out the obvious connection with Gotham U. They go there and interrogate one of the researchers, but they can't get useful information from her, this infuriates Jason again and he decides Bruce's methods don't work and that he will do things his way. He beats another guy up who tells him the address of one stash of Cheer, which ends up being an ambush by Freeze who then captures him. Jason admits he's filed and sent his location to Oracle so she can contact Bruce. Bruce saves Jason but gets captured in the process and is only then that Jason finally decides to follow Bruce's methods and what lets him find Cheer's base.

    Overall, Jason is written like a dumbass that only is able to help Bruce because Bruce already did the legwork for him.

    As for TFZ, he did such a great investigation that he failed to find the whole thing was an undercover FBI operation and he refused to hear Bruce when he tried to warn him, leading to his capture and posterior drafting into the TFZ program. Again, not a great show of Jason's detective skills.

  14. #1709
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
    Again, it's fair: it's Dicks book \o/. He leads and does most of the shinny work.
    Still it felt kind of unbalanced.

    I mean other writers have done worse, but in a team up like that I feel you should highlight at leat something cool about the guest character, and have him at least contribute something that ideally the main character can't do.

    The whole thing comes of a little bit like Dick needing to help Jason because he has no idea how to solve this case on his own. Compare that with the appearances of Tim and Barbara on this book, they are there because Dick needed their help.
    Last edited by Aahz; 11-30-2021 at 02:14 PM.

  15. #1710
    Astonishing Member Dark_Tzitzimine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Still it felt kind of unbalanced.

    I mean other writers have done worse, but in a team up like that I feel you should highlight at leat something cool about the guest character, and have him at least contribute something that ideally the main character can't do.

    The whole thing comes of a little bit like Dick needing to help Jason because he has no idea how to solve this case on his own. Compare that with the appearances of Tim and Barbara on this book, they are there because Dick needed their help.
    I'll take that over Jason going "rogue" and fighting the Batfamily for the nth time.

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