Jason Todd: Robin, Red Hood, Arkham Knight Appreciation 2021

[Aahz]

It wasn't a big deal, but changing gears and switching the story so that there could be a tie-in issue felt weird (I'm gonna be frank, however: didn't remember it had been set up earlier).

Yeah but in the end Tie ins are usually really just a delay by one issue, so it is not really major problem. And the Tie Ins have sofar never been bad, opposed to Jason appearances in the main story of these events outside of his own book.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Jason finally got his own character page at DC's site

https://www.dccomics.com/characters/red-hood

Some interesting things I noticed

The MK ripoff costume is nowhere to be seen (much to my delight), the pictures they picked are from both the N52 and Rebirth versions of his costume

In related characters, besides the rest of the bat family and close associates (Lucius, Gordon) they listed Roy and Bizarro but both Kori and Artemis are missing, Bullock is listed, one of the few nods to his Post Crisis Robin Days. The villains listed, besides the expected Joker and Black Mask count Penguin, Bane, Harley, Ivy, Bane, Riddler, Harvey, Ra's, Croc and Clayface.

[Sergard]

No, not that tweet. I think I recall a tweet about Jason maybe showing up in the Grifter story like last week or the one before, around New year. But my memory is so unreliable sometimes. Perhaps I mixed up stuff again.

Sadly, I couldn't find that tweet. Could you share it here in case you find it again?

Yeah but in the end Tie ins are usually really just a delay by one issue, so it is not really major problem. And the Tie Ins have sofar never been bad, opposed to Jason appearances in the main story of these events outside of his own book.

Red Hood/Arsenal felt like the whole run was mostly a tie-in for Batman: Superheavy. (You know, the time when commissioner Gordon was Batman). Which is sad, because I like the concept of Tara Battleworth and I hope a future writer will use the "fixer" again. I still can't believe that Tim Seeley knew about Underbelly and "used" (not really) the character in Five little Robins.

The Year of the Villain-tie in was a whole arc. And although I love the Generation Outlaw kids, I can understand others saying that they would have liked to see more of Casino boss Jason.

But I agree with you that Jason's appearances in other books are the by far worse problem.

Jason finally got his own character page at DC's site

https://www.dccomics.com/characters/red-hood

Some interesting things I noticed

The MK ripoff costume is nowhere to be seen (much to my delight), the pictures they picked are from both the N52 and Rebirth versions of his costume

In related characters, besides the rest of the bat family and close associates (Lucius, Gordon) they listed Roy and Bizarro but both Kori and Artemis are missing, Bullock is listed, one of the few nods to his Post Crisis Robin Days. The villains listed, besides the expected Joker and Black Mask count Penguin, Bane, Harley, Ivy, Bane, Riddler, Harvey, Ra's, Croc and Clayface.

Wasn't Bullock part of Jason's pre-crisis Robin days?

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Probably, is been a while since I checked.

[Zaresh]

Sadly, I couldn't find that tweet. Could you share it here in case you find it again?

I definitely read and remembered that tweet wrong and it was the one you found. I can easily see myself reading the second half of that tweet and making up my own story from it. I've browsed throughout his tweets and replies a while ago, and there's no other tweet I could've read or missread.

Edit:

In related characters, besides the rest of the bat family and close associates (Lucius, Gordon) they listed Roy and Bizarro but both Kori and Artemis are missing, Bullock is listed, one of the few nods to his Post Crisis Robin Days. The villains listed, besides the expected Joker and Black Mask count Penguin, Bane, Harley, Ivy, Bane, Riddler, Harvey, Ra's, Croc and Clayface.

I can see them cutting the thread with Kori because she hasn't had much more time with Jason since the New 52 run ended. But, could it be that Artemis isn't there because she doesn't have a bio page in the website? Does she have one? I can guess Essence and the others don't, but Artemis perhaps doesn't either.

[Restingvoice]

I definitely read and remembered that tweet wrong and it was the one you found. I can easily see myself reading the second half of that tweet and making up my own story from it. I've browsed throughout his tweets and replies a while ago, and there's no other tweet I could've read or missread.

Edit:



I can see them cutting the thread with Kori because she hasn't had much more time with Jason since the New 52 run ended. But, could it be that Artemis isn't there because she doesn't have a bio page in the website? Does she have one? I can guess Essence and the others don't, but Artemis perhaps doesn't either.

Yeah there's no Artemis

The DC website is really slow. Jason should've had his page at least when Arkham Knight came out.

[Sergard]

I definitely read and remembered that tweet wrong and it was the one you found. I can easily see myself reading the second half of that tweet and making up my own story from it. I've browsed throughout his tweets and replies a while ago, and there's no other tweet I could've read or missread.

[...]

I thought so. (Matthew Rosenberg writing Jason Todd - even if it is just a guest appearance in Grifter - would have been my favorite 2021 news so far.)


So far I've only found one website that lists the numbers of issues for Red Hood: Outlaw Vol 4. and they state it's Red Hood: Outlaw #43-50. All sites only mention Scott Lobdell as author and the trade has 224 pages. So I think it's very likely that Red Hood #51 and #52 won't be collected in Vol 4. Which begs the question: What's going to happen with those two missing issues? Will they ever be collected somewhere?

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

I see two possibilities, those are part of the first Urban Legends TP that in theory, should collect Zdarsky Red Hood arc, or the series is coming back down the line with the numeration intact but it will be titled simply Red Hood and those will be part of the first volume, much like Red Hood Outlaw first TP started with issue 26 despite being treated as Vol 1.

[Arsenal]

RH 51 & 52 along with Zdarsky’s UL story could end up being about the right size for the average TP depending on how long his story is. If not, Willaimson’s Future Slate story could be thrown in to round it out.

[TooFlyToFail]

First of all, thank you for the clarifications.
Second, sorry for the misunderstanding. When I read "League" I automatically think of the Justice League. Regarding the League of Assassins, I have to say that I don't see the point of trying to reform them (It's like reforming the Joker.). And to be honest, the League of Assassins feels very old-fashioned and even boring. Furthermore, the League of Assassins belongs to Ra's, the same way that Gotham belongs to Batman/Bruce Wayne. You can change the character for a short period of time but in the long run the original will always return. And Jason needs a sustainable foundation that will be respected by other writers. I like Bronze Tiger though - Slade and Lex too (I don't know anything about Waller). I'm tired of Slade fighting Titans and getting his ass kicked by minors (It's dumb.), and I wished Lex Luthor would have stayed more anti-heroic instead of returning to his villain status.



Another little info about me in case it wasn't painfully obvious: English isn't my first language. Do you really mean "face"? Or do you mean "faze"?



Do you mean this tweet? It says "Grifter/Red Hood" but I think that's misleading and only means that there's a Grifter story and a Red Hood story.

Thank you for the recommendation . I'll keep it in mind. I still haven't gotten to Moon Knight and Scarlet Spider though.

1) That's the thing, Jason would definitely try to move it out of its ways and probably run it like more of a mafia. He'd make more deals and partnerships too, which is why I bring up people like Lex Luthor, Slade Wilson and Amanda Waller. Of course because Ra's is the LoA he'd be one of Jason's major enemies, but I think Jason's League vs The Bat Family would make for an amazing finale event for that run.

2) I too wished that Lex kept his anti-hero status. He might go back to that, considering the Death Metal event.

3) I meant "faze" lol.

4) Warren Ellis's Moon Knight run (1-6) is glorious, and why I have him on my list (along with Planetary). Here's a pretty good audio comic of it:

Those are good picks for Jason, all of them. Probably Remender is the best fit of them. Brubaker too, but I love noir, so I'm biased. Ellis is what I would choose for Batman, but he probably would do good for Jason too, I guess. Lately he's not so good writing characters, but he's still better than other high profile writers (I'm a fan, totally not biased). Priest, it could be both ways: I could like what he does, or I could hate what he does: it's the cat in the box out of that list for me.

But, guys, Zdarsky doing a mini for Jason is already way higher than I expected. Even if it's 6 issues in an anthology. Lots of people are following his work nowadays, and not just because DD (I started following his work because that short but fun and touching trade he did for Star-lord).

Remender is the best fit for Jason. The main character of his Deadly Class comic is literally Latin Jason Todd, and it's glorious.

Warren Ellis would get the complexities of the LoA situations to a T, while still incorporating Jason's cynical and sarcastic attitude as his attempts no navigate what's sure to be a very political and prideful web.

Priest is the the one I'd be most unsure of, but his Deathstroke was fire so I'd welcome it.

Zdarsky is already an upgrade to Lobdell, but he gives me the sense that he wants to do street level stuff with Jason, and I'm, personally, over that.

[Rise]

Also whoops, Rise, I completely missed your comment about setting the All-Caste after UTRH before I had posted about that idea as well, my bad. Great minds think alike though, huh?

Heh, indeed.

And btw, pretty good analysis you wrote there. I really enjoyed reading it and I wish to see more posts like it.

[Sergard]

1) That's the thing, Jason would definitely try to move it out of its ways and probably run it like more of a mafia. He'd make more deals and partnerships too, which is why I bring up people like Lex Luthor, Slade Wilson and Amanda Waller. Of course because Ra's is the LoA he'd be one of Jason's major enemies, but I think Jason's League vs The Bat Family would make for an amazing finale event for that run.

I'm not particularly okay with the term "mafia" but it's also a very elastic term, from "The Godfather" mafia to comedy-manga mafia. Deals and partnerships is something I'd generally like to see more in the DC universe - not the kind of deals where Batman has to team up with the Joker for one issue to save somebody but the on-eye-level deals that have a lasting effect. There are so many kinds of deals and partnerships with respective dynamics between the involved parties.

2) I too wished that Lex kept his anti-hero status. He might go back to that, considering the Death Metal event.

I don't follow Death Metal. What happened? Is he back to normal? Future State made him sound like a villain again.

3) I meant "faze" lol.

I actually wouldn't consider it normal (for any human in Jason's situation) if Jason wasn't disturbed when somebody confronted him with a crowbar and mocked his torture and death. I as a reader myself was pretty upset about that scene - and how other characters like Dick and Bruce reacted to that incident. (It was also one of the reasons why Damian went from my second favorite character to my second most disliked character.) If I remember correctly, Jason was even very levelheaded in that scene even though it triggered some horrible memories.

4) Warren Ellis's Moon Knight run (1-6) is glorious, and why I have him on my list (along with Planetary). Here's a pretty good audio comic of it:



Remender is the best fit for Jason. The main character of his Deadly Class comic is literally Latin Jason Todd, and it's glorious.

Warren Ellis would get the complexities of the LoA situations to a T, while still incorporating Jason's cynical and sarcastic attitude as his attempts no navigate what's sure to be a very political and prideful web.

Priest is the the one I'd be most unsure of, but his Deathstroke was fire so I'd welcome it.

Oh, I'm definitely going to read Deadly Class. That sounds interesting.

Zdarsky is already an upgrade to Lobdell, but he gives me the sense that he wants to do street level stuff with Jason, and I'm, personally, over that.

So far, we only know that Zdarsky is writing the six-issue-story in Urban Legends. It's about Jason and Batman, street level stuff was the most obvious and probably easiest choice. Whoever takes over after Zdarsky hopefully starts to create a bigger network of old and new OCs around Jason.

[AmiMizuno]

So who is Jason as a anti hero or a hero?What should make him unique?

[Zaresh]

So who is Jason as a anti hero or a hero?What should make him unique?

Not to sound rude, but, didn't you already ask something like this some time ago?

Anyways, what makes a character unique? Any character? Well, their history, basically. Their background, their code, their life choices. For Jason, all that weights and makes his character. Also, their conflicts and the problems and troubles they face. And their supporting cast, the characters they interact with. Jason's has a package pretty distinctive from the other characters in Batman's sphere, and also plenty of DC's as a whole. It's not like there're a lot of underdog or byronic anti-hero archetype characters in the DCU. Not really a lot of anti-heroes to be honest, really.

[Sergard]

So who is Jason as a anti hero or a hero?What should make him unique?

According to the table on this page Jason is:

62,5% anti-hero
37,5% hero

- (anti) a realist
- (anti) is the rebel
- (hero) stands up to bad guys, faces great odds
- (anti) Will try get around conflict, try sneaky strategy ("Faces conflict bravely, head-on" is sometimes true too but that depends on the situation. Sometimes it's just smarter to avoid a conflict)
- (hero) is motivated by pure intentions ("is often driven by basic urges (dark) - but may turn to a higher calling near the end of story" is probably true for BUtRH though. Is "love of a father" considered a basic urge?)
- (hero) is classically handsome or beautiful
- (anti) is not really that interested in love's rewards
- (anti) Can be plain and undistinguished, no special talent (don't get me wrong, Jason is "extraordinary, possesses gifts and talents" but I think the author means here something more big-scaled like heat vision, flight, foreseeing the future, etc. - and I kind of like the idea that Jason is still a "normal" person in some sense. It's also a better fit for his hard-worker-type.)
- (anti) Has his own idiosyncratic moral compass
- (anti) Is often the criminal, thief or manipulates the law ('the end justifies the means')
- (anti) Can be passive, and is often pushed into something against his will
- (anti) Is often the Fallen Angel
- neither of "looks the part of the hero: clean lines define his character/Can swear, drink, sleep around, take drugs"
- (hero) Succeeds at his goals, unless story is tragedy
- (hero) wants to overcome his flaws and find a purpose and destiny
- (hero) Learns a lesson and is changed
- (anti) Can be mysterious, unfathomable and unpredictable
- Would be Wonder Woman




Although personally I feel like "wants to overcome his flaws and find a purpose and destiny" and "learns a lesson and is changed" more an anti-hero thing. DC heroes are normally pretty flawless and don't have to learn a lesson.