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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wingin' It View Post
    I think the difference is that Robin as a mantle is far more recognizable than Red Hood, despite Jason's growing popularity. And Damian *is* a very popular character, especially for one so new. Damian, as a kid character, fulfills a particular niche among a younger demographic and has the skills to go solo (and has before). Not to mention a lot of writers are interested in writing him, which is the most important thing.
    Damian isn't that new anymore, the story arc where they introduced him was the arc right after UtrH.

    I'm actually more surprised that he didn't got a solo far sooner, his DCYou series sold iirc quite well.

  2. #152
    Don't Bully a Hurt Dragon Sergard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    It does make a difference because it's the entire reason this discussion is even happening at all. Nobody would have been surprised to see Damian pop up in Batman/DC/Nightwing or end up in a Batman/Robin or Titans book. The fact that DC didn't do any of those and gave him his own ongoing solo book instead in an era where DC has drastically reduced their monthly output is a pretty significant difference.

    Not that I think it impacts Hood's chances of getting a book by years end but I also never really doubted he wouldn't get something anyway.
    Did they really though? Currently it feels like they are adding more and more titles.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
    Edit: related, kind of. It still amuses me that, after the multiple resets in the GKs discord role poll, Jason is still going ahead of the others by a reasonable margin.
    Unfortunatly gamer and comic buyers a different demographics.

    RHatO was usually among the lowest selling Batfamily books, Nightwing and Batgirl sell usually better. How Damian sells is hard to judge since the runs of his solo and of the Super Sons were allways so short.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergard View Post
    Did they really though? Currently it feels like they are adding more and more titles.
    It is possible that the are doing something similar as they did in Rebirth, were they iirc also spread the relaunch over 3 month and than had a second wave of books roughly half a year later.

  5. #155
    Astonishing Member RedBird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    It does make a difference because it's the entire reason this discussion is even happening at all. Nobody would have been surprised to see Damian pop up in Batman/DC/Nightwing or end up in a Batman/Robin or Titans book. The fact that DC didn't do any of those and gave him his own ongoing solo book instead in an era where DC has drastically reduced their monthly output is a pretty significant difference.

    Not that I think it impacts Hood's chances of getting a book by years end but I also never really doubted he wouldn't get something anyway.
    Sure of course it makes a difference to peoples expectations, but people being surprised that it's a solo and not a team book is not something I was commenting on. This does not make a difference to my post which was that it was no surprise that Robin had a book at all, that Robin being in a book was a sure bet. So when I asked you whether it being specifically a solo title made any difference, I was referring to whether or not acknowledging that it was a solo title would necessarily make a difference to the argument that it has any correlation to Red Hood or any other bats receiving a book. Whether it's a team book or a solo book I don't think it has any correlation to that, and you seem to agree.
    Last edited by RedBird; 01-14-2021 at 02:51 PM.

  6. #156
    Spectacular Member CorDaytona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Unfortunatly gamer and comic buyers a different demographics.

    RHatO was usually among the lowest selling Batfamily books, Nightwing and Batgirl sell usually better. How Damian sells is hard to judge since the runs of his solo and of the Super Sons were allways so short.
    I acknowledge that this is my strong opinions about Lobdell's run, but I wonder what would have happened sales-wise with a better ongoing (again, imo). Perhaps beyond the beginning of Rebirth, I never found much enthusiasm even among fans of the character like me. But I know that's purely anecdotical and most likely biased.

    In any case, yes, while there's some overlap, videogame and comic audiences are very different as a whole. At least, if his popularity outside comics is as tangible as it seems, DC can take some notes and see what to do with him in the comics that could take advantage of that.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by CorDaytona View Post
    I acknowledge that this is my strong opinions about Lobdell's run, but I wonder what would have happened sales-wise with a better ongoing (again, imo). Perhaps beyond the beginning of Rebirth, I never found much enthusiasm even among fans of the character like me. But I know that's purely anecdotical and most likely biased.

    In any case, yes, while there's some overlap, videogame and comic audiences are very different as a whole. At least, if his popularity outside comics is as tangible as it seems, DC can take some notes and see what to do with him in the comics that could take advantage of that.
    The problem is the popularity of Jason outside comics relied a lot in his death and return as antihero. That's why there are complains that he doesn't real bullets in the Gotham Knights.

    So, DC can't really do much with that, since this is his origin story.

  8. #158
    Astonishing Member RedBird's Avatar
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    Speaking of video games and comics, I wonder if we'll see a comic book tie-in of Gotham Knights, that might be neat.

  9. #159
    Astonishing Member Dark_Tzitzimine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    The problem is the popularity of Jason outside comics relied a lot in his death and return as antihero. That's why there are complains that he doesn't real bullets in the Gotham Knights.

    So, DC can't really do much with that, since this is his origin story.
    That is false, Jason status as an outlaw, his relationship Kori, Roy, Artemis, and Bizarro, and his more amicable relationship with Bruce has seeped into the fandom and has become part of how is perceived by most people familiar with the character you just need to look at all the fanwork that has been and is still being created on the website of your preference. The ones that cling to the UtRH are either completely new fans or people who simply never liked the Outlaws.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    That is false, Jason status as an outlaw, his relationship Kori, Roy, Artemis, and Bizarro, and his more amicable relationship with Bruce has seeped into the fandom and has become part of how is perceived by most people familiar with the character you just need to look at all the fanwork that has been and is still being created on the website of your preference. The ones that cling to the UtRH are either completely new fans or people who simply never liked the Outlaws.
    That's why I say the popularity of Jason OUTSIDE comics, since we were discussing that aspect of Jason.

    Jason is pretty popular outside comics, but this popularity relied in his death and resurrection as an antihero (since he doesn't have a lot of other stories outside comics).

  11. #161
    Don't Bully a Hurt Dragon Sergard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedBird View Post
    Sure of course it makes a difference to peoples expectations, but people being surprised that it's a solo and not a team book is not something I was commenting on. This does not make a difference to my post which was that it was no surprise that Robin had a book at all, that Robin being in a book was a sure bet. So when I asked you whether it being specifically a solo title made any difference, I was referring to whether or not acknowledging that it was a solo title would necessarily make a difference to the argument that it has any correlation to Red Hood or any other bats receiving a book. Whether it's a team book or a solo book I don't think it has any correlation to that, and you seem to agree.
    I don't think it has a correlation either. Although I worry that a Nightwing solo, a Robin solo and a lot of Batman books will mean a lot of bad guest appearances for Jason. I've already read enough stories by Tynion and Taylor to know that they like to prop up their favorites by making other characters look bad. And I fear that Joshua Williamson isn't that different. The idea that - once again - Jason gets butchered in other titles and doesn't have his own solo to "defend" himself and show the "true" Jason is kind of dreadful.
    Last edited by Sergard; 01-14-2021 at 03:39 PM.

  12. #162
    Spectacular Member CorDaytona's Avatar
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    Following on the whole "Red Hood's popularity being especially big outside comics", he's got some nice lined-up appearances as well as some potential ones, so it's only going to be better in that regard.

    Off the top of my head:
    • Gotham Knights
    • Titans (possibly a spin-off?)
    • maybe Injustice 3 (he was the most requested DLC iirc, so they might want to have in the base game)
    • Young Justice (is this good btw?)


    Hopefully, when they make new Batman animated movies, he'll show up and in a more post-N52 position. We've had enough of UtRH thanks to the movie and the latest gimmick one.

    The only Robin I feel bad for is poor Tim. Haven't read his FS stuff, but I hope it's good and he gets **** to do during IF. I wonder if they'll have him abandon the Red Robin mantle or at least make it more differentiated than just grown-up Robin (I miss the cowl).

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by CorDaytona View Post
    Following on the whole "Red Hood's popularity being especially big outside comics", he's got some nice lined-up appearances as well as some potential ones, so it's only going to be better in that regard.

    Off the top of my head:
    • Gotham Knights
    • Titans (possibly a spin-off?)
    • maybe Injustice 3 (he was the most requested DLC iirc, so they might want to have in the base game)
    • Young Justice (is this good btw?)


    Hopefully, when they make new Batman animated movies, he'll show up and in a more post-N52 position. We've had enough of UtRH thanks to the movie and the latest gimmick one.

    The only Robin I feel bad for is poor Tim. Haven't read his FS stuff, but I hope it's good and he gets **** to do during IF. I wonder if they'll have him abandon the Red Robin mantle or at least make it more differentiated than just grown-up Robin (I miss the cowl).
    Speaking to season 4 of Young Justice, which I don't doubt Jason will appear in, to some capacity, one of the co-creators is Brandon Vietti, who directed UTRH. I know they care about the character.

  14. #164
    Spectacular Member CorDaytona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wingin' It View Post
    Speaking to season 4 of Young Justice, which I don't doubt Jason will appear in, to some capacity, one of the co-creators is Brandon Vietti, who directed UTRH. I know they care about the character.
    Oh, didn't know about that. I've been meaning to start it, it's been a while since I last watch American TV animation.

    Also, now that we brought Gotham Knights up, there's an Lexcorp easter egg in there. It was dissapointing (yet understandable) that Rocksteady decided to continue working on the Arkhamverse, so I hope Gotham Knights can also sprout another universe on their own. At the very least, we know the Justice League is a thing, since Tim teleports by hacking into their satellite.

  15. #165
    Ultimate Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wingin' It View Post
    Speaking to season 4 of Young Justice, which I don't doubt Jason will appear in, to some capacity, one of the co-creators is Brandon Vietti, who directed UTRH. I know they care about the character.
    And his cameos (there were more than 1, technically) in season 3 were pretty good.

    And overall, Young Justice is pretty good. Season 1 usually regarded as the best, but the next two have a lot of good things too.

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