Jason Todd: Robin, Red Hood, Arkham Knight Appreciation 2021

[sifighter]

Do you guys like Jason/Rose as a pairing? I honestly don't know where it came from and reading them just made me miss Artemis.

I’m okay with it, it’s a lot better then the Barbara idea if I’m honest. I don’t know, superhero relationships can feel random at times for those that haven’t lasted decades like Superman & Lois, Batman & Catwoman, Green Arrow & Black Canary, and etc. I mean come on Hawkgirl is dating Martian Manhunter right now.

Honestly it makes sense in that they have a lot of similarities in bad father figures and generally run in the same circles.

[Wingin' It]

Do you guys like Jason/Rose as a pairing? I honestly don't know where it came from and reading them just made me miss Artemis.

I'm not opposed on principle but I wasn't sold on the relationship. Rose was not written particularly well here. If she's so violent and unreliable, why does Jason work with her in the field, let alone sleep with her? It seems like he barely even liked her and was actually annoyed by her presence. Even if he's only casually sleeping with her, it doesn't seem like she sees it that way, and we have no idea what Jason sees in her.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Any pairing can work if is written well but in this case, it wasn't.

The whole thing just felt awfully amateurish, Jason and Rose reduced to the bare minimum characterization. Jason's reduced to pretty much just grunting for half of the issue and acting like a stoic "badass" while Rose is acting like an overly clingy girlfriend that is more irritating than endearing. Assuming that Williamson was even trying to sell the pairing because it feels like it was tacked on just to pander to the TV show fans.

The comment about Dye is just one of Williamson's classic continuity nods that he loves to use on all of his stories but this fell flat on its face, it lacks any proper context and comes as completely nonsensical only really working to get fans discussion about what it means.

[Zaresh]

Do you guys like Jason/Rose as a pairing? I honestly don't know where it came from and reading them just made me miss Artemis.

I don't like it. She's not a good pairing for him, and he's not a good paring for her. Their own issues and baggage are a recipe for cheap melodrama and mutual harm. Also, she has her own love interest, if I recall and Jason isn't her type, as far as I've seen. Neither is Rose Jason's I think, even if she's a badass. And then there's the thing about her not caring much about hurting people, any kind of people, or worse. At least when she's psychotic. She can be worse than Jason.

And then, there's the thing about me thinking that this pairing is just based on some nonsense sense of... Like "oh, wouldn't it be cool if these two INTENSE! characters were involved?" Which, isn't fair for any of them both. And pretty shalllow. For a one time thing? Ok. For a regular ship... eh. I'm off this train.

But this is just my opinion.

[Rise]

Eh? What's Jason's type? He is a fictional in superheroe comics where characterisation differ from one writer to another.

As for today's issue, it's nothing less expected from Williamson (who I still don't understand the hype about him). It's not bad, but it's not great either. It's just decent.

[Jackalope89]

The Rose/Jason thing has roots going back to pre-Flashpoint. But other than a hint here and a mention there, it really never amounted to much. It was the Titans show that actually did something with it, temporary that it was.

This though... As much of a Jason fan I am, nothing in Future State has interested me. In fact, if anything, it killed my interest in a lot of stuff.

[Jackalope89]

And now I've read it... Yep. Not a fan. And the art sucks.

[Zaresh]

Eh? What's Jason's type? He is a fictional in superheroe comics where characterisation differ from one writer to another.

As for today's issue, it's nothing less expected from Williamson (who I still don't understand the hype about him). It's not bad, but it's not great either. It's just decent.

You know, even when we're talking about fictional characters, there's sometimes common traits that a love interest shares with previous ones. And the readers take it as a type they like. It's not so weird or, I don't know, unrealistic. It works under the same mechanisms that make a reader say "that's out of character" when a character does something he wouldn't do as he was written previously. When you write a character, you build it, give it a characterization, a personality, likes and dislikes. You write it certain way. Because you want readers to symphatize (or not) with him. That process often includes love interests. And the same can be said from the reader's point of view. Even under several hands, you build an image of a character that makes sense. It's how we "know" that Clint Barton likes women who set him straight and can beat his ass somehow. Or why Dick is said to like redheads. For Jason, are badass, strong, bold women. But I think he tends to like honest, kinder ones. Si far, several shared those traits, I think.

Edit: haven't read the issue, btw. So I can't say anything about it. But the preview looked ok.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

That's definitely a trend with the way his love interests have been written, I also might add "They don't take any of his bullshit" to the list. So yeah, Rose is pretty shallow as LI and is somewhat acknowledged by Williamson when her only argument to be together is "DADDY ISSUES". Even when Lobdell considered bringing Rose into the Outlaws it was more due to fans asking for it than a legitimate interest in exploring the relationship. This type of writing about doing stuff just to pander to the fans is the exact same approach that got me sick of Tynion's writing since is impossible to please everyone and in my experience, blatant fan pandering never works.

[KrustyKid]

I don't like it. She's not a good pairing for him, and he's not a good paring for her. Their own issues and baggage are a recipe for cheap melodrama and mutual harm. Also, she has her own love interest, if I recall and Jason isn't her type, as far as I've seen. Neither is Rose Jason's I think, even if she's a badass. And then there's the thing about her not caring much about hurting people, any kind of people, or worse. At least when she's psychotic. She can be worse than Jason.

And then, there's the thing about me thinking that this pairing is just based on some nonsense sense of... Like "oh, wouldn't it be cool if these two INTENSE! characters were involved?" Which, isn't fair for any of them both. And pretty shalllow. For a one time thing? Ok. For a regular ship... eh. I'm off this train.

But this is just my opinion.

My thoughts exact, they don't make for a good foil. Artemis plays off of Jason much better, so do a few others that come to my mind at the top of my head.

[Rise]

You know, even when we're talking about fictional characters, there's sometimes common traits that a love interest shares with previous ones. And the readers take it as a type they like. It's not so weird or, I don't know, unrealistic. It works under the same mechanisms that make a reader say "that's out of character" when a character does something he wouldn't do as he was written previously. When you write a character, you build it, give it a characterization, a personality, likes and dislikes. You write it certain way. Because you want readers to symphatize (or not) with him. That process often includes love interests. And the same can be said from the reader's point of view. Even under several hands, you build an image of a character that makes sense. It's how we "know" that Clint Barton likes women who set him straight and can beat his ass somehow. Or why Dick is said to like redheads. For Jason, are badass, strong, bold women. But I think he tends to like honest, kinder ones. Si far, several shared those traits, I think.

Edit: haven't read the issue, btw. So I can't say anything about it. But the preview looked ok.

Re-read my post, Zaresh. I meant fictional characters in superhero comics (meaning DC and Marvel). These characters don't really have type despite what some fans claim because any character can be a potential love interest whenever any writer decide so (after all, who the heck expected Artemis as love interest for Jason before Rebirth?).

There's no consistency in these comics because each writer have their own style and take on these characters.

[Zaresh]

Re-read my post, Zaresh. I meant fictional characters in superhero comics (meaning DC and Marvel). These characters don't really have type despite what some fans claim because any character can be a potential love interest whenever any writer decide so (after all, who the heck expected Artemis as love interest for Jason before Rebirth?).

There's no consistency in these comics because each writer have their own style and take on these characters.

Oh.
Well, I see your point. I still think you can get some sense of consistency sometimes (it does rely on the reader entirely. Close to what headcanon is, I guess), but, that's definitely a really good point.

And then, Dark is also right in that it doesn't matter much who they're paired if it is well written.
Hmm... I probably should stop making these almost headcanons.
Most probably.

[Jackalope89]

Re-read my post, Zaresh. I meant fictional characters in superhero comics (meaning DC and Marvel). These characters don't really have type despite what some fans claim because any character can be a potential love interest whenever any writer decide so (after all, who the heck expected Artemis as love interest for Jason before Rebirth?).

There's no consistency in these comics because each writer have their own style and take on these characters.

One consistent thing about Jason and the women he tends to hang around with/be on good terms with is that they tend to be, forgive the cliche saying, strong, independent, women. Not necessarily super powered or love interest, but the ones he tends to be around the most. Like Talia in New52, Donna in NTT and Countdown to Crisis, Supergirl during their team-ups (wouldn't mind seeing those two interact more), Artemis (duh), and while more minor, Rose in a few interactions prior to this.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Re-read my post, Zaresh. I meant fictional characters in superhero comics (meaning DC and Marvel). These characters don't really have type despite what some fans claim because any character can be a potential love interest whenever any writer decide so (after all, who the heck expected Artemis as love interest for Jason before Rebirth?).

There's no consistency in these comics because each writer have their own style and take on these characters.

When written well, characters do implicitly have a type since is based on their interactions with other characters. Just look at Spiderman and his numerous love interests over the years, or all the outcry that happened when WW and Superman hooked up during the N52. The argument about inconsistency might be valid if the writer that gave to Jason all of his love interests wasn't the same that wrote him for nearly a decade. Furthermore, even the Artemis ship came precisely from the chemistry that Lobdell unintentionally gave to their interactions and that once again, followed the patter he already established for Isabel and Essence.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

I'm still mad that this costume was just a variant.