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  1. #661
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    Jason isn't exactly a normal kid.

    And you see the other Batfamily members often also do stuff at this age, no normal kid could do...

  2. #662
    Astonishing Member Dark_Tzitzimine's Avatar
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    I just read issue #2

    Zdarsky's Jason is just pathetic, probably the most pitiful version I've ever seen of this character. Jason is a nervous wreck that is just a kid playing to be an adult, with none of the maturity, experience, or development he has shown freaking everywhere else; completely defined by his relationship with Bruce as if he was never able to step out from his shadow and become his own man. As the preview and the leaked page implied, Jason's thoroughly convinced he's a failure, a broken man that never had a chance to be anything else, and that belief is making him lash out and continue to act like an idiot.

    At least Bruce got to have a legitimately cool moment.

    Oh, Jason does have a brief appearance in the Grifter story and even though he gets used to prop up Cole in a fight, he does act a lot more in character than in his own story. At least he's not second-guessing himself every five seconds.
    Last edited by Dark_Tzitzimine; 04-13-2021 at 07:17 AM.

  3. #663
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    So now we have to hope for the Future State spin of book ...

    Honestly there have been way to many disappointing books with Jason in the last Year.

  4. #664
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    I just read issue #2

    Zdarsky's Jason is just pathetic, probably the most pitiful version I've ever seen of this character. Jason is a nervous wreck that is just a kid playing to be an adult, with none of the maturity, experience, or development he has shown freaking everywhere else; completely defined by his relationship with Bruce as if he was never able to step out from his shadow and become his own man. As the preview and the leaked page implied, Jason's thoroughly convinced he's a failure, a broken man that never had a chance to be anything else, and that belief is making him lash out and continue to act like an idiot.

    At least Bruce got to have a legitimately cool moment.

    Oh, Jason does have a brief appearance in the Grifter story and even though he gets used to prop up Cole in a fight, he does act a lot more in character than in his own story. At least he's not second-guessing himself every five seconds.
    I have to disagree. Just wait for the complete story.

    It will be a story about Jason fighting his inner demons and move past them. What i love about Jason is that he isn’t like any other robins. He ain’t no good guy Dick Grayson or Tim Drake. The guy is a beast of his own and a complex one. After the sixth parts, we will see Red Hood taking the next steps of his character.

  5. #665
    Astonishing Member Dark_Tzitzimine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
    I have to disagree. Just wait for the complete story.

    It will be a story about Jason fighting his inner demons and move past them. What i love about Jason is that he isn’t like any other robins. He ain’t no good guy Dick Grayson or Tim Drake. The guy is a beast of his own and a complex one. After the sixth parts, we will see Red Hood taking the next steps of his character.
    He has already faced his inner demons and moved past them in the previous series there is absolutely zero need to go through it all over again.

    This is Jason in Urban Legends



    A pitiful, weak, little man scared of his parent figure because he has no real conviction behind his beliefs.

    And here is in the last issue of RHATO



    This is a mature, fully grown man that has come to terms with who he is and what is his place in the world and who is actively working to help others to not commit the same mistakes he did in the past. No matter how you want to spin it, Zdarsky take is a complete regression of his character.

  6. #666
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    He has already faced his inner demons and moved past them in the previous series there is absolutely zero need to go through it all over again.

    This is Jason in Urban Legends



    A pitiful, weak, little man scared of his parent figure because he has no real conviction behind his beliefs.

    And here is in the last issue of RHATO



    This is a mature, fully grown man that has come to terms with who he is and what is his place in the world and who is actively working to help others to not commit the same mistakes he did in the past. No matter how you want to spin it, Zdarsky take is a complete regression of his character.
    If you ask me, Lobdell’s take on Red Hood was pretty mediocre exept the first few issues since rebirth. Fresh start of Red Hood will only do good for him. Wait and see at the end of the sixth parth, before making your final judgement.

  7. #667
    Astonishing Member Dark_Tzitzimine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
    If you ask me, Lobdell’s take on Red Hood was pretty mediocre exept the first few issues since rebirth. Fresh start of Red Hood will only do good for him. Wait and see at the end of the sixth parth, before making your final judgement.
    You don't like Lobdell, fine. That doesn't mean 9+ years of work and characterization had to be thrown out of the window just to stroke one's writer's ego; especially when Infinite Frontier is touted as "Everything counts now". Does every time a new writer comes to Batman he goes back to being a rookie, fighting to earn the cops' trust?

    And if six months will be wasted in placing the character in a similar spot art which he already was before, then what is the freaking point?

  8. #668
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    You don't like Lobdell, fine. That doesn't mean 9+ years of work and characterization had to be thrown out of the window just to stroke one's writer's ego; especially when Infinite Frontier is touted as "Everything counts now". And if six months will be wasted in placing the character in a similar spot art which he already was before, then what is the freaking point?
    That’s where i think you’re missing the point. At the end of this run, we will see an evolution of Red Hood, like we never saw before. We never saw RH battling as much his inner demons like right now. Just have faith. Zdarksy is awesome at writing heros like Red Hood.

  9. #669
    Astonishing Member Dark_Tzitzimine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
    That’s where i think you’re missing the point. At the end of this run, we will see an evolution of Red Hood, like we never saw before. We never saw RH battling as much his inner demons like right now. Just have faith. Zdarksy is awesome at writing heros like Red Hood.
    I don't want to see Jason battling his inner demons. Literally, every freaking story outside his own damn title is about that. Also, you guys keep talking of Zdarsky like he's the second comic of christ and so far he just comes like an above than average writer to me. There's just no passion whatsoever on what he's doing in Urban Legends right now. Is just another by the numbers angsty story about Jason and Bruce, there's nothing here that hasn't been tackled everywhere else before.

  10. #670
    Amazing Member CorDaytona's Avatar
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    Regardless of how tired and regressive (as they iterate on about the same over and over) some of this story's events may be, I'm just glad to have a good writer tackling on Jason.

  11. #671
    Astonishing Member Dark_Tzitzimine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CorDaytona View Post
    Regardless of how tired and regressive (as they iterate on about the same over and over) some of this story's events may be, I'm just glad to have a good writer tackling on Jason.
    If the story is bad, what is the difference between a writer considered "good" or one "considered" bad being in charge?

  12. #672
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    If the story is bad, what is the difference between a writer considered "good" or one "considered" bad being in charge?
    How can you considered a story bad when you’re not even halfway through it?

  13. #673
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    Quote Originally Posted by CorDaytona View Post
    Regardless of how tired and regressive (as they iterate on about the same over and over) some of this story's events may be, I'm just glad to have a good writer tackling on Jason.
    We had several "good writers" who did imo a terrible job when writing Jason recently: Geoff Jones, Tom Taylor, Alan Burnett/Paul Dini, Sean Murphy/Katana Collins ...

    I think the only "non-Lobdell" stories with Jason we got recently I liked were the ones in Gotham Nights #11, and the Future State story was kind of OK.
    Last edited by Aahz; 04-13-2021 at 10:49 AM.

  14. #674
    Amazing Member CorDaytona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    If the story is bad, what is the difference between a writer considered "good" or one "considered" bad being in charge?
    I never said the story was bad? The fact that it might be reiterating again on the same pitfalls Jason's character has been defined by doesn't preclude it from being enjoyable/well-paced/written/whatever. I'm liking what I'm reading so far, without it meaning it's amazing. I don't think it's a story that misinterprets Jason's character, it "just" takes him back to familiar roads.

    What I'm trying to say is that, while there was some nice evolution and progress for Jason I truly appreciate, I found the majority of Lobdell's run to be really middling in its writing, obnoxious more than often too, so having this is a nice change for me.

    I don't have much hopes for Jason's future (at least not soon enough) nor do I think Zdarky's story will be amazing, but I'm finding it to be competent and with good writing, regardless of whether I'm tired of these kinds of conflicts or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    We had several "good writers" who did imo a terrible job when writing Jason recently: Geoff Jones, Tom Taylor, Alan Burnett/Paul Dini, Sean Murphy/Katana Collins ...

    I think the only "non-Lobdell" stories with Jason we got recently I liked were the ones in Gotham Nights #11, and the Future State story was kind of OK.
    Dunno, I'd consider Geoff Jones to be very hit or miss, and TTJ's premise was stupid by default and tailor-made to prop up Babs and Bruce while using Jason as a juxtaposition device. Regarding Sean Murphy... I don't have the vastest experience with him, but I don't think I'd call him a good writer tbh. Finally, Tom Taylor's thing was whatever, is a zombie DC universe, so I wasn't expecting much and I was right in not doing so (can't remember much of Jason's portrayal beyond the grave thing, him bonding with Gordon and his relationship with Ravager). The rest I can't sadly speak about, although I did superficially check out Jason's inclusion in the Dini comic.

    Gotham Nights 11 was really good for as short and contained as it was (maybe in part due to that). FS... I totally agree with your assesment: absolutely nothing to write home about, but also nothing egregious.
    Last edited by CorDaytona; 04-13-2021 at 11:04 AM.

  15. #675
    Astonishing Member Dark_Tzitzimine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    We had several "good writers" who did imo a terrible job when writing Jason recently: Geoff Jones, Tom Taylor, Alan Burnett/Paul Dini, Sean Murphy/Katana Collins ...

    I think the only "non-Lobdell" stories with Jason we got recently I liked were the ones in Gotham Nights #11, and the Future State story was kind of OK.
    I'd argue that Tom Taylor wrote Jason pretty decently and it was only marred by the fact he had zero interest in the character and Jason was just an excuse to write a Cass story. We've seen too little of SGM's take to make a good judgment but so far, at least it is an interesting direction he's taking with the character thanks to being an Elseworlds story.
    Last edited by Dark_Tzitzimine; 04-13-2021 at 12:03 PM.

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