Jason Todd: Robin, Red Hood, Arkham Knight Appreciation 2021

[Restingvoice]

Do you mean this thread? Or any other? Link, please? It may be interest .

It's on Twitter. https://twitter.com/applejee_/status...63862311276545

By the way there is a controversial decision at the end of the story, but I doubt that one's gonna stick around. It's too iconic for Jason, so I'm not concerned with that.

Edit: Wait I forget Tyler's dad's still dead, so that's the cause of his need for redemption

[Arsenal]

That was a neat little way to set up Task Force Z, end the story & bring some closure to RHO52 all at once.

[Zaresh]

That was a neat little way to set up Task Force Z, end the story & bring some closure to RHO52 all at once.

And I think we somewhat knew something like this was going to eventually happen.
spoilers:

They want to strip Jason from the guns, they're problematic for the company, for toymakers (like Lego), for cosplayers security management at cons, and maybe other reasons we don't know. So it doesn't really surprise me. In fact, it has been already happening since the annual in RHATO, with Roy, where Jason couldn't aim, which was the reason he dropped guns as a main, I guess, under Lobdell. Now the reasons are different, but for me, at this point, it's clear that WB and DC want to drop them from the main, most visible feature in Jason. The costume was a nice tie in to Task Force Z.

end of spoilers

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

The final chapter of Urban Legends while nice, just highlighted how utterly pointless the story was for both Bruce's and Jason's characters. They didn't end up the story at a different point than they were when RHATO ended, and in fact, they could've used it as the perfect jumping point for this new status quo. The reconciliation moment was far better handled (and it was very reminiscent) of the first time Lobdell did it way back during DOTF and that one actually felt earned. Cheers ended up being a lame villain that was literally a walking plot point, a plot point that could've been removed if Zdarsky didn't waste the first three issues making Jason regress into angsting about Bruce.

As for the guns thing, I don't mind it myself, Jason is a lot more than just a marksman and there are plenty of directions they can go from here if they actually put the effort, but making him pick crowbars as his main weapon is definitely stupid. Once again, it shows the editorial doesn't understand Jason. The crowbar made sense during the Outlaw period because he was in a particularly dark state of mind and was being actively suicidal. Having him use the crowbars when he's at peace with himself just comes off as tacky and edgy for edgeness' sake. At least we finally ditched the MK costume.

As for the Detective Backup, not much to go besides possibly being at odds with the UL resolution. Since seemingly Jason is acting behind's Bruce's back by getting the reporter involved in the investigation. not that I'm surprised at editorial being a mess but well, I was hoping they could've been consistent with stories out the same damn week. At least the new costume looks pretty much identical to the Rebirth one.

[Jman27]

Not sure if I Like Bruce happiness dream in Urban Legends felt weird as for Bruce and Jason compromise at the end seems ok. Although I saw a pic of him using two crowbars as a weapon one was good enough lol. Looks like he back to wearing the helmet again just in time for Titans season 3

[Zaresh]

I could read the whole B:UL issue, finally. I liked it a lot.

spoilers:

It was the conclusion I was expecting since the second issue (with them being dosed, even), but that doesn't mean it's any less good that it would if I weren't expecting it. It's a story about a father and a son who share a very complicated relationship because of their different moral choices. And that's the whole core of it: everything else is just a tool to develop their conflict and come to an understanding and an acknowledge. Which was what this issue was about. Jason wishes Bruce would put and end to the Joker, stop being Batman and stay with him as a father. Peace and Family. But he also knows that's not Bruce, that would be happiness, but happiness that isn't true to them and comes from lies. They can be happy, but not like that. Which is why he pulls through the drug (Happiness can wait) and stops the dream, and why he stops Bruce from murdering Cheer. The same can be said about Bruce: he wishes he could kill the Joker and make Jason stop being Red Hood and stay, he wishes Jason could be just his son and a caring brother to his siblings; and he wishes for them to be good to each other. Again, peace and Family. But when Jason injects him with the antidote, that illusion breaks, and Bruce feels absolute destroyed, betrayed. Because he had happiness, but was a fake one. One he can't have, because he just can't kill Joker. In the end, they do achieve some happiness and support, but not a perfect, peaceful one. They came to an understanding of what to expect of each other and acknowledge that it is what it is and that will have to do. It's tragic, and well developed across the six issues. Honestly, I feel like this book was a lot more Jason-centric than Bruce. But I know some people will think otherwise.

end of spoilers

I'm pretty happy right now. Because I really liked this book, and because that latest TSS movie was honest to god fun and well made. I wish I had more weeks like this one with my picks for leisure time.

[CorDaytona]

I liked it. All in all, "Cheer" was solid, just... too redundant at the end of the day. But I'm glad this exists, and there were some genuinely emotive moments between Jason and Bruce. I simply need more interesting stories going forward for Jason. I don't know if TFZ is going to be that, but let's see.

Regarding the gun stuff... I don't know how to feel about that just yet. Especially since the reasoning behind it might be purely for merchandising reasons. I hope there's an actual intent behind it to make it work regardless of the original reason: provide interesting situations and have the character still feel like Jason. Crowbars, as said, are a stupid decision, though. Whatever they do, I wonder what will happen with Red Hood's future appearances in stuff like movies (haha), TV shows and videogames. I don't think they'd have much problem there (at least in terms of videogames), but if merchandising sales are king...

Ditching the MK getup finally, in any case! I liked it alright when drawn by Woods and Dan Mora, but it still doesn't hold a candle to the more classic RH outfits andr really overstayed its welcome for a couple of years, honestly. I don't love the new one, but it's still close enough to the Rebirth design (especially in the Detective backup, where he's got a jacket on), so that's good. Give me more aggressive eyes, though.

I still hope they return to a more streamlined armour suit down the line in any case. Rebirth Red Hood's is straight-up a Metal Gear Solid design and I love it for that.

Between this and Tim's stuff, Urban Legends has some potentially status quo-shaking stuff, at least from a superficial level.

The final chapter of Urban Legends while nice, just highlighted how utterly pointless the story was for both Bruce's and Jason's characters. They didn't end up the story at a different point than they were when RHATO ended, and in fact, they could've used it as the perfect jumping point for this new status quo. The reconciliation moment was far better handled (and it was very reminiscent) of the first time Lobdell did it way back during DOTF and that one actually felt earned. Cheers ended up being a lame villain that was literally a walking plot point, a plot point that could've been removed if Zdarsky didn't waste the first three issues making Jason regress into angsting about Bruce.

My biggest gripe. I think it was an overall fun and well written story (even if I expected a bit more in terms of interesting events, seeing how good I deem Zdarsky's Daredevil to be). At the end of the day, however, it's about the same ending as RHATO, down to Jason having a present from Bruce even!

I hope Bruce and Jason stay in good terms (like actual good terms) for at least a good while, I don't want to go back to the same conflicts ad nauseam. Same goes for the remaining Batfamily members.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Task Force Z is part of a crossover from the get-go

Meh.

[RedBird]

The first rhato had given a Jason and Bruce that could co-exist, and while not on great terms all the time, were generally civil with each other, and managed to understand that they could not control one another and had to accept the other for the sake of keeping whatever remained of their relationship. Sad to see that concept which allowed Jason to exist and not compromise his character is now non-existent.

In regards to the Red Hood/Batman story in UL, I see more and more fanon is making it's way into DC unfortunately, on top of being redundant it feels sad to see Jason picked away by DC inch by inch just to make him another 'batfamily' member. I'm generally getting tired of writers constantly having Jason give up parts of himself just to fit a mould more 'suitable' and inadvertently making Jason more boring. In post utrh pre52 that entailed picking apart Jasons moral compass in order to make him the 'batfams' one note villain, and now in Infinite Frontier that means having Jason give up on his ideals to make him more 'acceptable'. No difference. Either way it's always Jason, and ONLY Jason that has to drastically change in order to fit a mould, despite the fact that existing outside of the box was what gave his character complexity and intrigue in the first place. The dropping of the guns is disappointing enough to see, but more importantly if Jason is dropping his ideals and his sense of justice and avoiding killing when necessary from now, then I don't see a reason to even continue the character when there's already like 10-20 different batfamily members already filling the same role.

This was the most shallow direction for Red Hood to go.

[RedBird]

Task Force Z is part of a crossover from the get-go

Meh.

I imagine TFZ is a concept that is spinning out of and being born from fear state.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

The first rhato had given a Jason and Bruce that could co-exist, and while not on great terms all the time, were generally civil with each other, and managed to understand that they could not control one another and had to accept the other for the sake of keeping whatever remained of their relationship. Sad to see that concept which allowed Jason to exist and not compromise his character is now non-existent.

In regards to the Red Hood/Batman story in UL, I see more and more fanon is making it's way into DC unfortunately, on top of being redundant it feels sad to see Jason picked away by DC inch by inch just to make him another 'batfamily' member. I'm generally getting tired of writers constantly having Jason give up parts of himself just to fit a mould more 'suitable' and inadvertently making Jason more boring. In post utrh pre52 that entailed picking apart Jasons moral compass in order to make him the 'batfams' one note villain, and now in Infinite Frontier that means having Jason give up on his ideals to make him more 'acceptable'. No difference. Either way it's always Jason, and ONLY Jason that has to drastically change in order to fit a mould, despite the fact that existing outside of the box was what gave his character complexity and intrigue in the first place. The dropping of the guns is disappointing enough to see, but more importantly if Jason is dropping his ideals and his sense of justice and avoiding killing when necessary from now, then I don't see a reason to even continue the character when there's already like 10-20 different batfamily members already filling the same role.

This was the most shallow direction for Red Hood to go.

That is a solid point about this situation, I hadn't thought about it like that.

[Zaresh]

I don't think the "not hurt" part meant no killing. I mean, he said it in the actual dialogue there that he thought some people deserved to die. I took it to meant not hurting people like how killing Tyler's dad did hurt Tyler. So the short way to that is stopping using lethal weapons like guns. Well, at least, even if it's a so-so reason, it's justified enough. Readers have been complaining years by now about how stupid the rubber bullets were, and how ineffectual were too, on one hand; and on the other, DC knows that a big reason why Jason has fans is because he's the kind of guy that would condemn himself in order to protect others by killing when he saw doing so necessary. I don't think they're going to change his view much, but I suspect they want to show him more restrained, less angry and merciful to some criminals. I mean: Azzarello's book, as violent as it is, shows a Jason who is definitely not a hothead, has a cold anger, and doesn't want to let the rest of his team behind. And TFZ is probably going to revolve around who deserves to die and who doesn't at some degree.

Just my hunch, though. Same as why I think they're reducing the presence of his guns in non mature works. A hunch, or a guess.

Personally, I would have stopped using guns just like that, non explanation given. Carrying on naturally without putting too much of a light on it. Being subtle is key sometimes, for changing a status quo without making a fuss of it. But I'm no one of importance, or a writer, so.. xD.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

I don't think the "not hurt" part meant no killing. I mean, he said it in the actual dialogue there that he thought some people deserved to die. I took it to meant not hurting people like how killing Tyler's dad did hurt Tyler. So the short way to that is stopping using lethal weapons like guns. Well, at least, even if it's a so-so reason, it's justified enough. Readers have been complaining years by now about how stupid the rubber bullets were, and how inefective were too, on one hand; and on the other, DC knows that a big reason why Jason has fans is because he's the kind of guy that would condemn himself to protect others by killing when he saw doing so necessary. I don't think they're going to change his view much, but I suspect they want to show him more restrained, less angry and merciful to some criminals. I mean: Azzarello's book, as vioent as it is, shows a Jason who is definitely not a hothead, has a cold anger, and doesn't want to let the rsst of his team behind. And TFZ is probably going to revolve around who deserves to die and who doesn't at some degree.

That was literally how he was through 90% of RHATO, it didn't need a six-issue story.

[Zaresh]

That was literally how he was through 90% of RHATO, it didn't need a six-issue story.

He was, but a lot of the bat-readership didn't read RHATO or straight up avoid the book to this day.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

https://twitter.com/daddifantom/stat...21781568901126

Williamson says there's "lots of plans" for Jason outside Urban Legends.