Why are comic readers so negative?

[ExcelsiorPrime]

Not every story is going to be legendary there is going to be crap. It is what separates something special from something mundane.


There is nothing wrong with complaining about inferior Stories or Out of Character story arcs... if it seems excessive, then perhaps actually listening to what is being complained about instead of prejudging those doing the complaining could go a long way.

Labeling it as negativity sort of dismisses any valid points.

[MykeHavoc]

Its not just comics. People on the internet tend to love voicing how much they loathe something. It becomes almost competitive to see who can shred something the harshest. Generally, in everyday life, discussions with people are a bit more pleasant. And there's just this overall wealth of knowledge we wouldn't have had otherwise. There are no curtains to hide behind. Everyone's laundry is aired publicly. Privacy is no longer an option. Everyone lives on the internet. Society's expectations have risen to a fever pitch. Its very hard to please anyone these days, and impossible to please everyone. Praise tends to get drowned out by seething hatred. I try not to get sucked into the pessimistic tendencies of others. It just always seems like someone is upset about something. Better to just do your own thing and save your breathe for the people whose opinions matter to you.

[tombo]

Personally I disagree with the view that internet fans are whiny and impossible to please. I think we have gone through a particular low point for movies and comics in the past 15 years and that long term fans of "nerd culture" have plenty of valid complaints.

30 years ago, you could buy a comic (at a local newsagent) with great art by an artist like Perez, a great, full story that was resolved in the same issue, nice thick paper that showed off the ink well and wasn't too expensive to produce. Big events meant something and big crossovers were rare. Now, there are tons of comics with scruffy, bad manga rip-off art, it takes tons of issues to tell a story, every other day there is a huge, earth shattering event or a new issue one to create hype, every story has tons of confusing spin offs, TPBs are released in glossy paper that makes them cost much more and looks uglier.

And it's the same with movies, they have lost their spontaneity, the magic that made the young Spielberg etc make great blockbusters in the 80s.

I still love comics, but there have been some annoying trends recently. I hope my post has not depressed anyone. There are still awesome comics and movies out there, we should support what's coming out that's good... and can respectfully state what we don't like (in my opinion).

[dupont2005]

30 years ago, you could buy a comic (at a local newsagent) with great art by an artist like Perez, a great, full story that was resolved in the same issue, nice thick paper that showed off the ink well and wasn't too expensive to produce. Big events meant something and big crossovers were rare. Now, there are tons of comics with scruffy, bad manga rip-off art, it takes tons of issues to tell a story, every other day there is a huge, earth shattering event or a new issue one to create hype, every story has tons of confusing spin offs, TPBs are released in glossy paper that makes them cost much more and looks uglier.

Pretty much every issue of Stray Bullets is a stand alone story. I'd say about 50% of Usagi Yojimbo story lines are a single issue.
I don't read a single comic that has a single spinoff.
I don't read a single comic that has a crossover or event of any kind.
I consider at least 90% of the comics I read to have fantastic art.
A good chunk of my TPB's and HC's don't have glossy paper, although a decent portion of them do. If the type of paper is your biggest complaint then you're likely just looking for something to complain about at this point.

There's no need to complain about what you're reading. Quit reading it if it isn't good. Find something that actually is good.

"If I complain on the internet hard enough, maybe they'll listen!"
No, they won't. Know what will make them listen? Losing sales. As long as you buy it, doesn't matter how much you complain, you just proved them right. They can put it out just as it is and you'll buy it. No reason to win you over, you're already won over. They don't read your internet posts, they don't hear your complaints. Even if they did, if you can say "I don't like it when you do X" they can reply with "Every time we do X we get a bump in sales, so we're going to do it six times a year."

Take away that bump in sales and maybe they'll try something different. Until then, it's not changing.

[MykeHavoc]

Yeah, a lot of those points were opinions and reaching at that. A lot of the comics of 30 years ago were a lot less sophisticated. The fan base typically demands a more complex and layered narrative with less hokey dialogue as well as new and exciting art that pushes the boundaries of the medium. Books are always reflective of the time, and only a handful of stories from that era still hold up. Now that too is an opinion, but I think its a fair assessment not based on nostalgia. Not everyone finds crossovers as confusing as you may, and more often than not, tie-ins are superfluous. They aren't required to enjoy the event or main story. Sure, movies were great back then, but we still have plenty of good films being produced today. And as a comic fan, there's been no better time to be alive then to see our favorite characters in 200 million dollar movies that are not just appeasing us but grabbing the general public's interest more and more.

[Paradox]

Pharozonk wonders:

In the context of superhero comics, why follow creators? Just because a writer I'm a fan of like Paul Levitz or Mark Waid starts writing Wonder Woman doesn't mean I'm going to be interested in following her.

A rather large amount of people follow creators. I've certainly tried quite a few books I wouldn't have bought if not for who was doing them. Many of us don't give two shits about "continuity" or the characters, but rather want a good story. Following creators who have told you good stories before is perfectly logical.

[emac1790]

Yeah, a lot of those points were opinions and reaching at that. A lot of the comics of 30 years ago were a lot less sophisticated. The fan base typically demands a more complex and layered narrative with less hokey dialogue as well as new and exciting art that pushes the boundaries of the medium. Books are always reflective of the time, and only a handful of stories from that era still hold up. Now that too is an opinion, but I think its a fair assessment not based on nostalgia. Not everyone finds crossovers as confusing as you may, and more often than not, tie-ins are superfluous. They aren't required to enjoy the event or main story. Sure, movies were great back then, but we still have plenty of good films being produced today. And as a comic fan, there's been no better time to be alive then to see our favorite characters in 200 million dollar movies that are not just appeasing us but grabbing the general public's interest more and more.

It's nostalgia vs modern times. 30 years ago was 1984. There were comics not as "sophisticated" as they are now, but it's not like I was reading Disney comics when I was 12. Check this out,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_in_comics

I had many of these books.

[dupont2005]

Yeah, a lot of those points were opinions and reaching at that. A lot of the comics of 30 years ago were a lot less sophisticated. The fan base typically demands a more complex and layered narrative with less hokey dialogue as well as new and exciting art that pushes the boundaries of the medium. Books are always reflective of the time, and only a handful of stories from that era still hold up. Now that too is an opinion, but I think its a fair assessment not based on nostalgia. Not everyone finds crossovers as confusing as you may, and more often than not, tie-ins are superfluous. They aren't required to enjoy the event or main story. Sure, movies were great back then, but we still have plenty of good films being produced today. And as a comic fan, there's been no better time to be alive then to see our favorite characters in 200 million dollar movies that are not just appeasing us but grabbing the general public's interest more and more.

I don't think the complaint is that crossovers are confusing. It's that it's a cheap moneygrab to try and milk the few remaining comic fans of that extra cent, forcing them to buy titles they don't follow to complete the story in the title they do follow. You'd be surprised how many readers it drives away. How many people were reading Marvel comics before crossovers were a thing? How many are reading now?

I quit reading superhero comics in part because of the upselling. I will not read a comic that does that. In fact, pretty sure I won't read from a publisher that does that.

[dupont2005]

It's nostalgia vs modern times. 30 years ago was 1984. There were comics not as "sophisticated" as they are now, but it's not like I was reading Disney comics when I was 12. Check this out,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_in_comics

I had many of these books.

How sophisticated can something that was traced out of a porn mag possibly be? Oh the complexities!

[tombo]

Pretty much every issue of Stray Bullets is a stand alone story. I'd say about 50% of Usagi Yojimbo story lines are a single issue.
I don't read a single comic that has a single spinoff.
I don't read a single comic that has a crossover or event of any kind.
I consider at least 90% of the comics I read to have fantastic art.

I agree those comics are awesome but I wish Marvel and DC felt more like they did before the 90s.

Know what will make them listen? Losing sales.

I think a lot of people combine stopping buying certain comics with explaining on the internet why they stopped and what went wrong for them. Personally I never expected my posts to make a change and it never occurred to me a US comic editor would be reading. I wanted to chat about how I felt with other fans. I agree there are awesome comics around but it's the general change of atmosphere. And the glossy paper puts prices up and I personally dislike how it feels.

Yeah, a lot of those points were opinions and reaching at that. A lot of the comics of 30 years ago were a lot less sophisticated.

I personally think it takes more sophistication to put a full convincing story into a single issue bronze-age style.

And as a comic fan, there's been no better time to be alive then to see our favorite characters in 200 million dollar movies that are not just appeasing us but grabbing the general public's interest more and more.

I agree we are living in an awesome time for superhero movies and raised awareness.

[emac1790]

How sophisticated can something that was traced out of a porn mag possibly be? Oh the complexities!

Ha. I was just re-reading my copies of Six from Sirius from '84. This series is more sophisticated (story and art) than 90% of the stuff out now.

[dupont2005]

Ha. I was just re-reading my copies of Six from Sirius from '84. This series is more sophisticated (story and art) than 90% of the stuff out now.

Comics have had amazing stories since before I was born. And they still do today. There's always been good and bad.

Of course, a comic can be simple and still be good too.

[emac1790]

There's always been good and bad.

One of the great truths of life.

Of course, a comic can be simple and still be good too.

This is also true.

[Pharozonk]

A rather large amount of people follow creators. I've certainly tried quite a few books I wouldn't have bought if not for who was doing them. Many of us don't give two shits about "continuity" or the characters, but rather want a good story. Following creators who have told you good stories before is perfectly logical.

I'm of the opposite mentality. I used to check out every run on a character or series I like. A good writer I'm a fan of is an added incentive.

Then again, I'm a continuity fanatic and it's a big deal for me.

[Paradox]

Exactly. The fact that there is a wide disparity in what people who read comics want always cracks me up when people talk about "what the fans want". There's nothing resembling any homogeneity there.