Matt Murdock: Daredevil Appreciation 2021

[Devaishwarya]

Yeah...I don't know or care to know any of those people. LOL.
The 'pundits' can say whatever they like...that was a great run.

[Nanashi]

I think it's great and I think some of the best stories haven't even been collected yet.

That being said, I think it was polarizing by the end with people definitely hating the Mephisto arc and people who hate change disliking the arcs surrounding it (the traveling arc and the amnesia arc). I think people started to believe her Typhoid Mary arc was great but discounting the rest.

I think Typhoid Mary is a highlight of that run. She is certainly one of the more interesting Daredevil antagonists.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

[K7P5V]

I think Typhoid Mary is a highlight of that run. She is certainly one of the more interesting Daredevil antagonists.

Agreed. The gathering of B-listers to gang-up on Daredevil, and soften him up for Typhoid Mary's finishing blow was truly memorable (IMHO):

[phantom1592]

That’s really interesting since her run soon strays so far from DDs world and ancillary characters for the most part.

Honestly, that's why I never cared for it. I'm sure there's some back and forth, and the Typhoid stuff... but when I think of Nocenti's run, the first thing that comes to mind is the road trip in the middle of nowhere with 'Nine' and the inhumans fighting against Blackheart and Ultron... and it's a serious departure from what I consider a 'good DD run'. In fact her run was my least favorite until we got into the Fall from Grace storyline and the black suit.

Since then I'm sure it's aged better after things like Shadowland, Fall from Grace, and Bendis (my least favorite of them all) but at the time it was coming out?? Did not care for that 'shake up'.

[K7P5V]

Honestly, that's why I never cared for it. I'm sure there's some back and forth, and the Typhoid stuff... but when I think of Nocenti's run, the first thing that comes to mind is the road trip in the middle of nowhere with 'Nine' and the inhumans fighting against Blackheart and Ultron... and it's a serious departure from what I consider a 'good DD run'. In fact her run was my least favorite until we got into the Fall from Grace storyline and the black suit.

Since then I'm sure it's aged better after things like Shadowland, Fall from Grace, and Bendis (my least favorite of them all) but at the time it was coming out?? Did not care for that 'shake up'.

Completely understandable. Can't blame the creative team for Ultron, though. It was an Acts of Vengeance crossover, after all

[phantom1592]

Honestly, I love the 'Acts of Vengeance' concept of switching enemies around for new and different conflicts. But Ultron and DD were just too dissimilar to be engaging for me.

Add in, i'm a little tired of Thor and the Avengers not being able to truly damage Ultron because of Adamantium.... but Daredevil and Darkhawk can find loopholes that legit don't exist...

Even as a Huge Daredevil Fan, I still love the Hulk vs. Daredevil fight back in #163 where DD is just absolutely trashed and ends up in the hospital... but still never stops trying to reach Bruce. Completely outclassed, but still fighting. Not WINNING... but still fighting.. and that's more what Ultron should have been for him.

[Nanashi]

Honestly, that's why I never cared for it. I'm sure there's some back and forth, and the Typhoid stuff... but when I think of Nocenti's run, the first thing that comes to mind is the road trip in the middle of nowhere with 'Nine' and the inhumans fighting against Blackheart and Ultron... and it's a serious departure from what I consider a 'good DD run'. In fact her run was my least favorite until we got into the Fall from Grace storyline and the black suit.

Since then I'm sure it's aged better after things like Shadowland, Fall from Grace, and Bendis (my least favorite of them all) but at the time it was coming out?? Did not care for that 'shake up'.

Why don’t you like Bendis’ run?

[Nanashi]

Agreed. The gathering of B-listers to gang-up on Daredevil, and soften him up for Typhoid Mary's finishing blow was truly memorable (IMHO):

Hmmm...that last panel doesn’t make much sense. Why would his dad who always wanted Matt to be more studious and harshly scolded him for fighting be the one to encourage him to get up and fight? Wouldn’t Stick be the one Matt would imagine to tell him to keep fighting since is the one who trained him and is a heartless hardass who wouldn’t tolerate Matt giving up no matter the hopeless situation?

[phantom1592]

Why don’t you like Bendis’ run?

Lots of reasons. First and foremost, it crapped on continuity. The idea of Matt being outed by the press had already happened and he acted like he could never imagine such a thing happening to him. Fall from Grace was not a good story to begin with, and led to an awful run with 'Jack Batlin'... so the last thing I wanted to see was a 'remake'.

2) He never really 'Got' Matt. All he wanted to do was trash him and beat him and break him... Make him extra gritty and super violent. That's not Daredevil. Matt is the 'hero' who lives in a dark, violent, bitter world... and rises above it. He's the guy who'll leap in front of the Punisher's bullet to save a drug dealer because he doens't believe in being gritty and ruthless. Bendis only seemed interested in getting blood on his knuckles and breaking anyone who crossed him. He wasn't clever, he wasn't creative, he didn't use his powers in interesting ways... he was just violent.

3) Matt's had trouble with women in the past for sure... but actually marrying someone on a whim like that and then cheating on her almost immediately?! That was just... bad...

4) 90% of the run was just Matt trying to do whatever was best for him. It was the most selfish and least heroic I'd ever seen Daredevil portrayed.

I also hated the artwork on that run. When Shotgun and Boomerang showed up in the 'silent' issue and were completely unrecognizable that's just a sin... Too many panels of just people staring at each other 'thinking'... really turned me off of Maleev's Artwork.

It's also when the decompression REALLY started to kick in. 3-4 months pass with almost nothing happening, the covers stopped telling you anything about the issue and just turned into generic pinups and I actually got tricked into buying the same issue twice a couple times because they all looked the same...

But yeah, all in all, I hated that run a lot. I'd been collecting religiously for 20 years at that point, and bought them all out of character loyalty, but I was over the moon when Brubaker took over and brought him a BIT more toward the light... but y'know... then had him join the Hand and Shadowland and all that... So yeah, Bendis was the beginning of the end for Daredevil for me. I've picked up a few TPBs of Waid since then and I liked that... but they were still dealing with the fallout of what Bendis did to the character.

I consider the Bendis to be the "One More Day" of Daredevil.

[phantom1592]

Hmmm...that last panel doesn’t make much sense. Why would his dad who always wanted Matt to be more studious and harshly scolded him for fighting be the one to encourage him to get up and fight? Wouldn’t Stick be the one Matt would imagine to tell him to keep fighting since is the one who trained him and is a heartless hardass who wouldn’t tolerate Matt giving up no matter the hopeless situation?

Well... probably shouldn't look to close at the halluciations of someone with a concussion

My theory would be that Dad always told him not fight and to study more... that's true. But at the same time Dad was the one who SHOWED him to never give up and never lie down and that Murdocks always crawl back to their feet.

It was more of a 'do what I say not what I do' thing with Jack, and Matt learned to be a fighter from him.

[K7P5V]

Honestly, I love the 'Acts of Vengeance' concept of switching enemies around for new and different conflicts. But Ultron and DD were just too dissimilar to be engaging for me.

Add in, i'm a little tired of Thor and the Avengers not being able to truly damage Ultron because of Adamantium.... but Daredevil and Darkhawk can find loopholes that legit don't exist...

Even as a Huge Daredevil Fan, I still love the Hulk vs. Daredevil fight back in #163 where DD is just absolutely trashed and ends up in the hospital... but still never stops trying to reach Bruce. Completely outclassed, but still fighting. Not WINNING... but still fighting.. and that's more what Ultron should have been for him.

Yeah! Being outclassed, but still fighting! If done right, those kinds of fights could be quite eventful. My favorite will always be DD VS. Namor from...

Daredevil #7
(April, 1965)

[K7P5V]

Hmmm...that last panel doesn’t make much sense. Why would his dad who always wanted Matt to be more studious and harshly scolded him for fighting be the one to encourage him to get up and fight? Wouldn’t Stick be the one Matt would imagine to tell him to keep fighting since is the one who trained him and is a heartless hardass who wouldn’t tolerate Matt giving up no matter the hopeless situation?

Well... probably shouldn't look to close at the halluciations of someone with a concussion

My theory would be that Dad always told him not fight and to study more... that's true. But at the same time Dad was the one who SHOWED him to never give up and never lie down and that Murdocks always crawl back to their feet.

It was more of a 'do what I say not what I do' thing with Jack, and Matt learned to be a fighter from him.

Good point, Nanashi. "Stick" did eventually show up, though.

[Nanashi]

Lots of reasons. First and foremost, it crapped on continuity. The idea of Matt being outed by the press had already happened and he acted like he could never imagine such a thing happening to him. Fall from Grace was not a good story to begin with, and led to an awful run with 'Jack Batlin'... so the last thing I wanted to see was a 'remake'.

2) He never really 'Got' Matt. All he wanted to do was trash him and beat him and break him... Make him extra gritty and super violent. That's not Daredevil. Matt is the 'hero' who lives in a dark, violent, bitter world... and rises above it. He's the guy who'll leap in front of the Punisher's bullet to save a drug dealer because he doens't believe in being gritty and ruthless. Bendis only seemed interested in getting blood on his knuckles and breaking anyone who crossed him. He wasn't clever, he wasn't creative, he didn't use his powers in interesting ways... he was just violent.

3) Matt's had trouble with women in the past for sure... but actually marrying someone on a whim like that and then cheating on her almost immediately?! That was just... bad...

4) 90% of the run was just Matt trying to do whatever was best for him. It was the most selfish and least heroic I'd ever seen Daredevil portrayed.

I also hated the artwork on that run. When Shotgun and Boomerang showed up in the 'silent' issue and were completely unrecognizable that's just a sin... Too many panels of just people staring at each other 'thinking'... really turned me off of Maleev's Artwork.

It's also when the decompression REALLY started to kick in. 3-4 months pass with almost nothing happening, the covers stopped telling you anything about the issue and just turned into generic pinups and I actually got tricked into buying the same issue twice a couple times because they all looked the same...

But yeah, all in all, I hated that run a lot. I'd been collecting religiously for 20 years at that point, and bought them all out of character loyalty, but I was over the moon when Brubaker took over and brought him a BIT more toward the light... but y'know... then had him join the Hand and Shadowland and all that... So yeah, Bendis was the beginning of the end for Daredevil for me. I've picked up a few TPBs of Waid since then and I liked that... but they were still dealing with the fallout of what Bendis did to the character.

I consider the Bendis to be the "One More Day" of Daredevil.

I get some of that like decompossion but disagree with much more such as the art and characterization. I honestly liked that Matt was doing whatever he could to attenuate the news of him being a superhero. Aside from that, though, it seems your take on that run is highly influenced by your already extensive history with character which is fair but also a shame because so much of that run is so good, IMO, of course.

[Nanashi]

Good point, Nanashi. "Stick" did eventually show up, though.

There we go! Perhaps one of the strangest issues of that very strange run.