Matt Murdock: Daredevil Appreciation 2021

[phantom1592]

I get some of that like decompossion but disagree with much more such as the art and characterization. I honestly liked that Matt was doing whatever he could to attenuate the news of him being a superhero. Aside from that, though, it seems your take on that run is highly influenced by your already extensive history with character which is fair but also a shame because so much of that run is so good, IMO, of course.

Yep... that sounds about right. My problem with Bendis' Characterization was influenced by my already extensive history with the character.... That's legit

I imagine new fans who discovered DD with Bendis' run probably didn't have the same issues i did.

[Nanashi]

Yep... that sounds about right. My problem with Bendis' Characterization was influenced by my already extensive history with the character.... That's legit

I imagine new fans who discovered DD with Bendis' run probably didn't have the same issues i did.

Likely not.

[Devaishwarya]

Miller is great and definitive. Objectively speaking...he wins.

Unfortunately, I read his run after Nocenti's which I found to be not as heavy and more entertaining and engaging and wider in scope. I do love when my favourite heroes explore beyond their defined parameters. Subjectively, she gets the Crown and Scepter.

I tried a few issues of Bendis' DD and...I absolutely loved Maleev's art.

Contrary to popular opinion...I quite enjoyed the brief Hand-Shadowland-BP:MWF period.

[Raffi Ol D'Arcy]

Honestly, that's why I never cared for it. I'm sure there's some back and forth, and the Typhoid stuff... but when I think of Nocenti's run, the first thing that comes to mind is the road trip in the middle of nowhere with 'Nine' and the inhumans fighting against Blackheart and Ultron... and it's a serious departure from what I consider a 'good DD run'. In fact her run was my least favorite until we got into the Fall from Grace storyline and the black suit.

Since then I'm sure it's aged better after things like Shadowland, Fall from Grace, and Bendis (my least favorite of them all) but at the time it was coming out?? Did not care for that 'shake up'.

From what I read somewhere, some of the stories she incorporated in her Daredevil run she had meant to use in a Longshot mini-series in particular the Mephisto/hell storyline which was pretty bizarre. If any of you want complete closure to the Mephisto arc, I recommend the Nighthawk 3-issue miniseries from 1998 by Jim Krueger, Richard Case & Bob Wiacek. It's titled Nighthawk but it could be just as well titled Nighthawk & Daredevil as DD is a major co-star. In continuity and a good read.

The "Nine" issues with the Inhumans was also even more crazy. The Inhumans stuff was basically Nocenti's follow-up to the Inhumans Graphic Novel from 1988 which she wrote and in which we see the birth of the child featured in the Daredevil run.

Nocenti wasn't so much writing for Daredevil but using various ideas from abandoned runs and continuing storylines from other comics. She also threw in various moralistic and political views. Actually, I remember doing a very short review of the run when I read it a while back. I'll dig it up and post it shortly.

[Raffi Ol D'Arcy]

Lots of reasons. First and foremost, it crapped on continuity. The idea of Matt being outed by the press had already happened and he acted like he could never imagine such a thing happening to him. Fall from Grace was not a good story to begin with, and led to an awful run with 'Jack Batlin'... so the last thing I wanted to see was a 'remake'.

3) Matt's had trouble with women in the past for sure... but actually marrying someone on a whim like that and then cheating on her almost immediately?! That was just... bad...

. When Shotgun and Boomerang showed up in the 'silent' issue and were completely unrecognizable that's just a sin... Too many panels of just people staring at each other 'thinking'...

.

On those first two points, I am in agreement with you. Bendis totally overdid the outing, The whole marriage and what followed also seemed so off. I liked Maleev's art but I agree that it was annoying not to be able to recognise who was who.

Overall, I quite liked Bendis' run bar several points. Let's also remember that his run also took a lot from Miller (which I deem to be the best DD run) but a lot of readers experienced Daredevil first with Bendis and they are so wowed by him.

Phantom1592, have you read Soule's run? Bar the ending, it may very well be my 2nd, maybe 3rd favourite Daredevil run (I can't decide whether Soule or Denny O'Neill). It has s slow start and Ron Garney's art gets better as we go along, but I really appreciated it. At some point, I want to do a Daredevil reread without incorporatIng crossovers and Marvel events which I did in the past and which caused the runs to be broken up. I plan on reading just the bare DD material and then I can once again compare each of the major runs.

[Mike_Murdock]

Lots of reasons. First and foremost, it crapped on continuity. The idea of Matt being outed by the press had already happened and he acted like he could never imagine such a thing happening to him. Fall from Grace was not a good story to begin with, and led to an awful run with 'Jack Batlin'... so the last thing I wanted to see was a 'remake'.

2) He never really 'Got' Matt. All he wanted to do was trash him and beat him and break him... Make him extra gritty and super violent. That's not Daredevil. Matt is the 'hero' who lives in a dark, violent, bitter world... and rises above it. He's the guy who'll leap in front of the Punisher's bullet to save a drug dealer because he doens't believe in being gritty and ruthless. Bendis only seemed interested in getting blood on his knuckles and breaking anyone who crossed him. He wasn't clever, he wasn't creative, he didn't use his powers in interesting ways... he was just violent.

3) Matt's had trouble with women in the past for sure... but actually marrying someone on a whim like that and then cheating on her almost immediately?! That was just... bad...

4) 90% of the run was just Matt trying to do whatever was best for him. It was the most selfish and least heroic I'd ever seen Daredevil portrayed.

I also hated the artwork on that run. When Shotgun and Boomerang showed up in the 'silent' issue and were completely unrecognizable that's just a sin... Too many panels of just people staring at each other 'thinking'... really turned me off of Maleev's Artwork.

It's also when the decompression REALLY started to kick in. 3-4 months pass with almost nothing happening, the covers stopped telling you anything about the issue and just turned into generic pinups and I actually got tricked into buying the same issue twice a couple times because they all looked the same...

But yeah, all in all, I hated that run a lot. I'd been collecting religiously for 20 years at that point, and bought them all out of character loyalty, but I was over the moon when Brubaker took over and brought him a BIT more toward the light... but y'know... then had him join the Hand and Shadowland and all that... So yeah, Bendis was the beginning of the end for Daredevil for me. I've picked up a few TPBs of Waid since then and I liked that... but they were still dealing with the fallout of what Bendis did to the character.

I consider the Bendis to be the "One More Day" of Daredevil.

FWIW, Matt's affair was during Brubaker's run.

My biggest complaint about Bendis's run is his focus on the anti-climax. He would spend a lot of time setting up the stakes and the villain and then he would end it with a non-ending where the villain turned out to actually be pathetic and Matt would then mock the villain. This seemed to happen with the Owl and Bullseye for example. This is leaving aside the villains he just dismissed from the beginning (Jester comes to mind here, but quite a few were explicitly "ranked" like that's something heroes do).

I don't hate the run, but I do think it was flawed. I think it only works if you accept that Matt is suffering from some kind of mental breakdown due to stress and depression and is essentially acting out of character. My biggest problem is I do think people end up thinking of Bendis's Matt as an accurate representation of the character.

[Raffi Ol D'Arcy]

This is the brief review I did of Ann Nocenti's Daredevil run some time ago:

I recently finished Nocenti’s complete run on Daredevil and I’m in neither the naysayer’s camp nor in the yeasayer’s camp. There are some truly fine moments and story-beats and Nocenti endeavours to tackle certain moral and political issues and intertwine them in Daredevil’s life. Unfortunately, she seems to get lost in her own philosophizing and what at times starts off as an interesting pitch and issue to reflect upon ends up one heck of a convoluted mess. It almost feels as of Nocenti has thrown some of her favourite liberal and conservative viewpoints into a top hat and jostled them around with the hope that the rabbit will be pulled out and everything will make sense. Sadly, more than often this is not the case, and one comes away thinking “And....?”.

I did read somewhere that Nocenti didn’t take much pleasure in writing comics and one of the things that kept her going with Daredevil was the possibility of interweaving personal convictions and causes into the story line. Also, the Mephisto arc which truly felt out of place in a street level comic such as Daredevil was apparently intended for an abandoned Longshot/X-Men storyline. I pretty much enjoyed JRJR’s art throughout the run but I’m of the conviction that it’s Al Williamson’s inking that gives it that sophisticated edge. Without it, I more than likely would have been at the mercy of JRJR’s blocky art which I’m not at all keen on.

I’m probably one of the few that dislikes Typhoid Mary, the less of her the better I say. I did, however, take to one of Nocenti’s other creations “Bullet” which I found quite enjoyable.

Saying all of the above, any true Daredevil aficionado should read Nocenti’s (and JRJR’s) run and I did at the end of the day find the stories interesting.

[phantom1592]

On those first two points, I am in agreement with you. Bendis totally overdid the outing, The whole marriage and what followed also seemed so off. I liked Maleev's art but I agree that it was annoying not to be able to recognise who was who.

Overall, I quite liked Bendis' run bar several points. Let's also remember that his run also took a lot from Miller (which I deem to be the best DD run) but a lot of readers experienced Daredevil first with Bendis and they are so wowed by him.

Phantom1592, have you read Soule's run? Bar the ending, it may very well be my 2nd, maybe 3rd favourite Daredevil run (I can't decide whether Soule or Denny O'Neill). It has s slow start and Ron Garney's art gets better as we go along, but I really appreciated it. At some point, I want to do a Daredevil reread without incorporatIng crossovers and Marvel events which I did in the past and which caused the runs to be broken up. I plan on reading just the bare DD material and then I can once again compare each of the major runs.

That's where the difference was for me. Miller GOT Daredevil. He beat the everliving crap out of that character... and at the end of the day, he rolls with the punches and rises back into the light. He lives in the gritty world, but he's still the hero. Bendis seems to focus only on the gritty aspects of Miller while ignoring the Heroic parts. I loved Miller's run

I have NOT read Soules yet. I was intrigued by it, but something about the new costume and sidekick turned me off. May still pick up the trades one of these days. I've heard good things.

FWIW, Matt's affair was during Brubaker's run.

My biggest complaint about Bendis's run is his focus on the anti-climax. He would spend a lot of time setting up the stakes and the villain and then he would end it with a non-ending where the villain turned out to actually be pathetic and Matt would then mock the villain. This seemed to happen with the Owl and Bullseye for example. This is leaving aside the villains he just dismissed from the beginning (Jester comes to mind here, but quite a few were explicitly "ranked" like that's something heroes do).

I don't hate the run, but I do think it was flawed. I think it only works if you accept that Matt is suffering from some kind of mental breakdown due to stress and depression and is essentially acting out of character. My biggest problem is I do think people end up thinking of Bendis's Matt as an accurate representation of the character.

YES!!!! I remember one of my favorite parts of Bendis' run was the introduction of the 'proto-Kingpin.' I LOVED that idea. A way to keep the standard 'Daredevil vs. crime boss' concept going without once again jumping on the stupid 'Fisk is kingpin, no he's out, no he's back, no he's out... ' merry-go-round that got old back in the 90's. Having someone be the 'boss' from BEFORE Fisk took over had serious potential... until he had a heart attack or stroke about 4 issues later.... UGHHHHHH...


And yeah, I wholeheartedly agree about people thinking that's 'Accurate'. That was one of my biggest issues with Netflix is that it focused way too much on the Bendis interpretation and people jumped on the bandwagon. It had a lot of potential... but Matt should NOT have gotten beaten up THAT often... he was not just a ticking timebomb waiting to hurt people... He should have worn the costume more... It was my favorite of the netflix series... but I'd love for someone to take another shot at it and do it better.

[Mike_Murdock]

YES!!!! I remember one of my favorite parts of Bendis' run was the introduction of the 'proto-Kingpin.' I LOVED that idea. A way to keep the standard 'Daredevil vs. crime boss' concept going without once again jumping on the stupid 'Fisk is kingpin, no he's out, no he's back, no he's out... ' merry-go-round that got old back in the 90's. Having someone be the 'boss' from BEFORE Fisk took over had serious potential... until he had a heart attack or stroke about 4 issues later.... UGHHHHHH...

Yeah, Golden Age started as a fun, wonderful tribute to the Golden Age and Silver Age of comics. Then it had nowhere to go and fizzled out. But I'm very much a sucker for world building - especially world building of the past to make it feel as fleshed out as the present. But, in addition to the ending, it fit the pattern of Bendis's treatment of superheroes. There was basically this sense that the mafia was manly and righteous before sissy superheroes ruined everything - it's basically the theme of Underboss as well. But, in the Marvel universe, superheroes go back before World War II with the Invaders, the Liberty Legion, and the All-Winners Squad. It's a rich tapestry that led to the heroes we have today. Now Bendis doesn't care about that history. He loves his heightened reality that is basically our world but isn't it weird that Spider-Man is around? Don't get me wrong, Marvel is supposed to be the world outside your window and we shouldn't have a Gotham City, etc., but there's also an established continuity that gets in the way of the themes Bendis is attempting to present but doesn't have a ton to say about.

[phantom1592]

Yeah, Golden Age started as a fun, wonderful tribute to the Golden Age and Silver Age of comics. Then it had nowhere to go and fizzled out. But I'm very much a sucker for world building - especially world building of the past to make it feel as fleshed out as the present. But, in addition to the ending, it fit the pattern of Bendis's treatment of superheroes. There was basically this sense that the mafia was manly and righteous before sissy superheroes ruined everything - it's basically the theme of Underboss as well. But, in the Marvel universe, superheroes go back before World War II with the Invaders, the Liberty Legion, and the All-Winners Squad. It's a rich tapestry that led to the heroes we have today. Now Bendis doesn't care about that history. He loves his heightened reality that is basically our world but isn't it weird that Spider-Man is around? Don't get me wrong, Marvel is supposed to be the world outside your window and we shouldn't have a Gotham City, etc., but there's also an established continuity that gets in the way of the themes Bendis is attempting to present but doesn't have a ton to say about.

One of my biggest beliefs about Bendis, is that he has no business writing in an established continuity. He never respects it, he doesn't use it... and it's just terrible. Happened with Daredevil, X-men, Avengers, Everything he touches he completely disregards any ideas that aren't his.

That said, when he has a blank slate and can create from the ground up, he can really shine. Ultimate Spider-man was one of my all time favorite runs of any comic. With no continuity he could change anyone however he wanted and 80% of the time it was just gold. But when he started bringing over his vampiric life sucking version of Carnage into New Avengers... that just sucked. Pushing Luke Cage was good... having him embarrassed by people wearing 'costumes' when he was literally a 'Hero for Hire' for decades... is crap.

On his own, I like him... but he wants to be the whole chain of a character, not just a link in a continuing story that will outlive him.

[Spiderfan001]

One of my biggest beliefs about Bendis, is that he has no business writing in an established continuity. He never respects it, he doesn't use it... and it's just terrible. Happened with Daredevil, X-men, Avengers, Everything he touches he completely disregards any ideas that aren't his.

That said, when he has a blank slate and can create from the ground up, he can really shine. Ultimate Spider-man was one of my all time favorite runs of any comic. With no continuity he could change anyone however he wanted and 80% of the time it was just gold. But when he started bringing over his vampiric life sucking version of Carnage into New Avengers... that just sucked. Pushing Luke Cage was good... having him embarrassed by people wearing 'costumes' when he was literally a 'Hero for Hire' for decades... is crap.

On his own, I like him... but he wants to be the whole chain of a character, not just a link in a continuing story that will outlive him.

Bendis has gone down hill a lot.
USM was good but the Miles Morales one was bad(not his intro in fallout, his solo).He made Peter's entire supporting cast a Miles cheering squad. S.H.I.E.L.D. and the ultimates were also supporting him.They should have benched him since the last one died a horrible death.
Also May and friends saying that do it like you was bs.Like her son and there bf just died and they are willing to pass the mantle on.
Also The guy loves to self insert(ken who he shipped with kitty).
And create new characters for his stories like Miles,Ken etc.
Also he will put Kitty Pryde everywhere he can.USM(it was a great relationship though),gaurdians,etc.
Luke was a great character and Bendis wrote him well but he didn't do much with any other characters.
It was literally Luke and Jessica starring the Avengers.Spider-man and Doc Strange got the worst of it.Wolverine and daredevil were fine,they had the whole Japan arc.Spider-woman was okay too.
Like I understand your focus is Luke and Jess but an arc with some focus on Spider-man and one with Doc Strange should have been there.Also more dialogue.And they nerfed the hell out of them.Doc strange could not even port a plane.They should have made Spider-man the tech guy as well.

[Raffi Ol D'Arcy]

One of my biggest beliefs about Bendis, is that he has no business writing in an established continuity. He never respects it, he doesn't use it... and it's just terrible. Happened with Daredevil, X-men, Avengers, Everything he touches he completely disregards any ideas that aren't his.

That said, when he has a blank slate and can create from the ground up, he can really shine. Ultimate Spider-man was one of my all time favorite runs of any comic. With no continuity he could change anyone however he wanted and 80% of the time it was just gold. But when he started bringing over his vampiric life sucking version of Carnage into New Avengers... that just sucked. Pushing Luke Cage was good... having him embarrassed by people wearing 'costumes' when he was literally a 'Hero for Hire' for decades... is crap.

On his own, I like him... but he wants to be the whole chain of a character, not just a link in a continuing story that will outlive him.

You're absolutely right. Bendis does not care about continuity. It's as if he's given carte blanche, basically "Hey Brian, you're the greatest, and because of that we trust you and you can do what you darn well please". I personally believe Marvel editorial is as much to blame as they let him do his own thing without reigning him in. If Bendis had a true respect for the legacy of characters and the writers before him, he would have made that extra effort. He didn't. He also did it with Guardians of the Galaxy and with the Defenders (DD, IF, Cage & JJ) when Charles Soule was writing Daredevil. Bendis didn't care about the world Soule was creating with Daredevil, he decided to do his own thing whether it added up or not, using the same characters but with a different timeline. His Defenders run was quite good but it just didn't fit right.

And yes, on his own with a new character or one rarely used he does fine. I have to say, though I had enough of him on Marvel events. They became so mediocre and uninteresting. It was such a relief when Aaron did Original Sin.

As opposed to Bendis, I do think Zdarsky has done his homework on Daredevil which is refreshing although he seems to be in a wash, rinse, repeat mode of late.

[Raffi Ol D'Arcy]

Daredevil blank sketch cover commission by Jeffrey Edwards:

[Mike_Murdock]

He also did it with Guardians of the Galaxy and with the Defenders (DD, IF, Cage & JJ) when Charles Soule was writing Daredevil. Bendis didn't care about the world Soule was creating with Daredevil, he decided to do his own thing whether it added up or not, using the same characters but with a different timeline. His Defenders run was quite good but it just didn't fit right.

That being said, one of my biggest complaints about Soule is I don't personally think he's all that invested in continuity either. More so than Bendis and maybe he was just super busy, but there felt like a two-way disconnect. The biggest example is the Kingpin's role in Secret Empire ignored when it would have been the perfect thing to use for the mayoral election. I don't know if anyone has attempted a better job, but I tried to put the events in chronological order and the best I came up with was:

Daredevil 21-25
Defenders FCBD-6
Secret Empire
Daredevil 26-28
Defenders 7-8
Daredevil 595-600
Daredevil 600-605
Defenders 9-10 (going from memory, but I think this is where he reveals his identity to the Defenders, which would suggest he was mayor first and they didn't mention it).
Hunt for Wolverine
Infinity Countdown: Daredevil
Daredevil 606-608
War of the Realms
Daredevil 609-612

As opposed to Bendis, I do think Zdarsky has done his homework on Daredevil which is refreshing although he seems to be in a wash, rinse, repeat mode of late.

Zdarsky is much better, I agree. My biggest complaint with him is he seems to act as if the entire allowed list of Daredevil villains is the Frank Miller canon plus the Owl (which is similar to Bendis here). I don't think it's completely been cleared up, but I'm glad he had Elektra already know Matt's identity without Matt revealing it because it was strongly implied in Bendis's Defenders that she already knew.

[Nanashi]

Hey, all. In Born Again, after the Kingpin destroys Matt’s home, why doesn’t he seek out Foggy for help instead of going paranoid and sleeping in a motel room?