Matt Murdock: Daredevil Appreciation 2021

[Albert1981]

I mean, getting back to the whole Pepper and Happy thing - both of 'em did almost die.



I mean, it doesn't even have to be girlfriends, though. As illustrated by Happy.



I mean, I think secret id's are super fun, personally. I think that's why so many people here are still in favor of them.




I thought Foggy was hilarious, personally.

I have to concede that most comic book fans seem to enjoy the secret identity trope. I'm DEFINITELY in the minority in opposing it in superhero live-action stuff. I feel it's kinda like love triangles in soap operas. The whole thing can drag on for SO LONG, and I just don't like the dishonesty behind them. As I've said before, I think secret identities often do make supporting characters look REALLY dumb, and the failure to discover them gets repetitive over time IMO. But I appreciate why Daredevil fans would enjoy it. They're USED to it. Sure Happy and Pepper almost did die, but Stark and Rhodey were there to save the day when things got dicey. I absolutely believe Murdock could do the same in HIS movies/shows. Maybe Murdock will get access to Stark's tech just like Peter has. I agree Foggy was hilarious because Favreau is hilarious. I thought Affleck's DD was WAY too brutal in that 2003 movie. The MCU has GOT to tone things down with Matt in their productions. The reason why I wanna do away with secret identities is because I want Matt to interact with his fellow heroes as SOON as possible. If he ends up participating in apocalyptic worldwide and eventually multiversal threats, I think maintaining a secret identity would be the LEAST of his worries and look kinda ridiculous.

[jb681131]

You make excellent and valid points, but if Murdock is gonna be joining Feige's MCU, he's gonna be taking his mask on and off a LOT. The law of averages suggests that EVENTUALLY his true identity will inevitably be discovered. And he's a pretty high-profile hero in NYC. That's why I want Matt to lose his secret identity quickly and adopt a more PG-13 personality. It just works better in the MCU that currently exists.

Doing so only to make him more teen friendly is a sad destiny for DD and the great actor that plays him.
Also, what makes DD a "pretty hig-profile hero" ? He only protects "Hell's Kitchen", a tiny neighborhood in NY.
And I don't see at all how "It just works better" ?? There are zero proofs of that.
If they make him quickly loose the hood, then why even bother with that hero in the MCU ?

[Albert1981]

Doing so only to make him more teen friendly is a sad destiny for DD and the great actor that plays him.
Also, what makes DD a "pretty hig-profile hero" ? He only protects "Hell's Kitchen", a tiny neighborhood in NY.
And I don't see at all how "It just works better" ?? There are zero proofs of that.
If they make him quickly loose the hood, then why even bother with that hero in the MCU ?

Hell's Kitchen is a small community in Manhattan, sure. But stuff that happens in NYC often attracts worldwide attention. It's a major city. The Netflix show already dealt with more adult and mature themes in its series. Folks can always enjoy that production if they subscribe to Netflix (regardless of how Disney treats DD). I just don't think after Deadpool 3, Disney/Marvel is gonna produce anymore R-rated content. In fact, I think they're gonna water things down in the next Deadpool movie. I don't think secret identities work in the MCU because pretty much no hero and/or villain has them. Matt will stick out like a sore thumb if he keeps his. If all the major characters in the MCU are publicly known as heroes and villains, wouldn't it seem strange that Murdock hides his identity? It just doesn't work IMO. I think it's very important the MCU includes characters like Daredevil in it. He's a big part of the street-level crime fighting section of the Marvel Universe. Taking him out of it would be like not including Ghost Rider, Namor, and Silver Surfer in the MCU. Disney/MCU content is family-friendly. I think it's too big an ask for Marvel Studios to make grim dark movies/shows. And that's why I kinda doubt Punisher will be joining the MCU anytime soon (even though he's CLEARLY a Marvel A-Lister).

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I'd be down for Daredevil revealing his ID if they use the red suit from Waid/Samnee's run.
https://images.app.goo.gl/ue9nhWEUzh4kmR1x8

Regarding the humor, I rather Daredevil leans more towards Infinity War rather than Ragnarok. IW had a better balance between the funny moments and the more serious moments to me. Whereas Ragnarok felt like two different movies stitched together. I don't mind if DD cracks a few jokes but he doesn't need a quip every other line.

Honestly I'm not that into Daredevil joining the MCU. I rather just get a season 4 instead.

[Albert1981]

I'd be down for Daredevil revealing his ID if they use the red suit from Waid/Samnee's run.
https://images.app.goo.gl/ue9nhWEUzh4kmR1x8

Regarding the humor, I rather Daredevil leans more towards Infinity War rather than Ragnarok. IW had a better balance between the funny moments and the more serious moments to me. Whereas Ragnarok felt like two different movies stitched together. I don't mind if DD cracks a few jokes but he doesn't need a quip every other line.

Honestly I'm not that into Daredevil joining the MCU. I rather just get a season 4 instead.

I think that would work wonderfully (say that three times fast in a row). I've never read Waid's work on Daredevil before. Waid's DD seems like a pretty chill guy and I think that kind of persona works perfectly in the MCU. I also like IW more than Endgame. That movie felt like it had stakes and I actually thought it was funnier too (although I liked Endgame a lot as well). I kinda think it's inevitable that Murdock will join the MCU. Feige is not gonna exclude such a classic Marvel character from his cinematic universe. But I DO think Matt will NOT have a secret identity in future MCU projects and that he will be WAY quippier than he was in his other onscreen portrayals (which I'm cool with).

[Raffi Ol D'Arcy]

I'd be down for Daredevil revealing his ID if they use the red suit from Waid/Samnee's run.
https://images.app.goo.gl/ue9nhWEUzh4kmR1x8

Regarding the humor, I rather Daredevil leans more towards Infinity War rather than Ragnarok. IW had a better balance between the funny moments and the more serious moments to me. Whereas Ragnarok felt like two different movies stitched together. I don't mind if DD cracks a few jokes but he doesn't need a quip every other line.

Honestly I'm not that into Daredevil joining the MCU. I rather just get a season 4 instead.

No no no! That red suit was when Waid's run went kind of silly and downhill. That would be more in line with the Adam West camp Batman movies/series

[Raffi Ol D'Arcy]

I think that would work wonderfully (say that three times fast in a row). I've never read Waid's work on Daredevil before. Waid's DD seems like a pretty chill guy and I think that kind of persona works perfectly in the MCU. I also like IW more than Endgame. That movie felt like it had stakes and I actually thought it was funnier too (although I liked Endgame a lot as well). I kinda think it's inevitable that Murdock will join the MCU. Feige is not gonna exclude such a classic Marvel character from his cinematic universe. But I DO think Matt will NOT have a secret identity in future MCU projects and that he will be WAY quippier than he was in his other onscreen portrays (which I'm cool with).

I think you might like Waid's run because of the light art but beware it doesn't steer away from heavy themes.

[phantom1592]

Sure Happy and Pepper almost did die, but Stark and Rhodey were there to save the day when things got dicey.

No... No they were not. Pepper fell to her 'death' and survived because the bad guy infected her with Extremis. Tony TRIED to save her, but was too slow and too weak and she fell.

Happy was in the hospital after an Extremis guy blew up. That's what led Tony to call out the Manderin in the first place. Because his friends were getting hurt, because of the issues that Tony put himself in.

He was NOT around or CAPABLE of protecting his loved ones... they survived pretty much by luck and plot armor.

[Nanashi]

No no no! That red suit was when Waid's run went kind of silly and downhill. That would be more in line with the Adam West camp Batman movies/series

Yea. That was the least enjoyable part of an otherwise stellar run.

[phantom1592]

You make excellent and valid points, but if Murdock is gonna be joining Feige's MCU, he's gonna be taking his mask on and off a LOT. The law of averages suggests that EVENTUALLY his true identity will inevitably be discovered. And he's a pretty high-profile hero in NYC. That's why I want Matt to lose his secret identity quickly and adopt a more PG-13 personality. It just works better in the MCU that currently exists.

Theres' no correlation between PG-13 happy friendly Daredevil... and whether he has a secret Identity. In fact I would argue the opposite. Daredevil has had years of Grim Dark avenger... AND Scarlet Swashbuckler laughing in the face of danger and they both involve wearing the mask. It's more based on the writer than the mask. In fact it's flip flopped so much, that having mental breakdowns has become canon for him. I would say Bendis' version after he was exposed was his darkest grimmest most brutal version and that was without the mask.


One of the major things about Daredevil is that what he does is SUUUUUPER illegal. Even more illegal than the average guy who puts on a mask and beats people up... he's a lawyer and every case he ever tampered with evidence, forced confessions, and threatened witnesses is a jailing offense. Disbarment is just a given. AND happened in the comics when he was outed.

So more than most people, Matt NEEDS that mask just to function on a daily basis.

[Albert1981]

I might take a look at Waid's work when I can find the time! Thanks for the recommendation. I don't dislike heavy themes...In the comic books. I just don't want to have too much "serious" subject matter involving themselves in MCU projects. I like the PG-13 world Feige and his team have created. And I want it to stay that way. It is true that Pepper and Happy weren't technically protected by Tony and their survival was very fortuitous and serendipitous. All I'm saying is that there were no long-term negative consequences of Tony revealing his identity to the world when it came to the people he loved. I guess an example of somebody in the MCU being permanently and negatively affected by being in close proximity to somebody involved in supervillainy was Antonia Dreykov. But even that event actually made no sense. She was horribly disfigured by a bomb explosion, and yet her father, General Dreykov (who was in the same room with her), emerged from it apparently without a scratch on his body!

I wanna have Matt be like a lawyer on those Law & Order shows. Work the system, bend the rules without breaking them, and own up to any transgressions he engages in. I don't think the MCU will allow Murdock to break the law in order to defend it (without good reason). He can be aggressive and driven, but only go as far as Vinny Gambini did in My Cousin Vinny. That way his secret identity would not be an issue. I like superheroes having to be held accountable in the MCU. Secret identities PREVENT that from happening (in the superhero movies and shows I've watched, as opposed to the comic books apparently). And besides, in the next Avengers team-up, do folks here REALLY want Matt to be referred to as "Daredevil" by his fellow teammates?! I like how practically EVERY character in the MCU is referred to by their civilian first and last names. As I said before, I'm still somewhat concerned about the potential for fat jokes at Wilson Fisk's expense. The MCU already went too far with the Thor and Red Guardian quips in my opinion.

[phantom1592]

I like superheroes having to be held accountable in the MCU. Secret identities PREVENT that from happening (in the superhero movies and shows I've watched, as opposed to the comic books apparently). And besides, in the next Avengers team-up, do folks here REALLY want Matt to be referred to as "Daredevil" by his fellow teammates?! I like how practically EVERY character in the MCU is referred to by their civilian first and last names. As I said before, I'm still somewhat concerned about the potential for fat jokes at Wilson Fisk's expense. The MCU already went too far with the Thor and Red Guardian quips in my opinion.

Oh yes... I want ALL of that! 'Daredevil', hornhead, DD, however they want to phrase it. I absolutely hated Bendis' Avengers where everyone was sitting around without masks calling each other Tony, Steve, and Peter... UGhhhh...

[Nanashi]

https://twitter.com/litos616/status/...962483200?s=21

[Big Bad Voodoo Lou]

Folks, I'm going to recommend my article again. It talks about the problems Matt Murdock faced in the comics AS A LAWYER when his secret identity was revealed, and how he constantly bent and outright broke the law as an attorney -- as a member of the New York Bar -- while engaging in his vigilante activities. He's an excellent lawyer in terms of skill, but often a very bad one in terms of following the law and the oath he took -- kind of like Jimmy McGill/Saul Goodman.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=3389544

And as much as I love Daredevil, I would rather never see him in live action again than see him as another wisecracking superhero with a public identity, having unmasked wacky adventures in the MCU. It would undo 40 years of character development. He isn't a blank slate like Ant-Man or the Guardians, where Feige and crew could just rewrite them from the ground up because nobody knew or cared about them before. I'd rather have him be an outlier -- someone who's always in the shadows, in the background, fighting his own small-scale fights in more of a dark, mature, neo-noir context than the family-friendly MCU allows. If they turn him into another glib Tony Stark wannabe, I'd rather they don't use him at all.

[Albert1981]

Oh yes... I want ALL of that! 'Daredevil', hornhead, DD, however they want to phrase it. I absolutely hated Bendis' Avengers where everyone was sitting around without masks calling each other Tony, Steve, and Peter... UGhhhh...

I hated it when Iron Man had a secret identity in the comic books. Tony would literally run out of the room quickly and then Iron Man would come bursting through the wall. Like, what the hell! I think Peter keeping his identity a secret from Aunt May for over a hundred years was also dumb and bad storytelling. I mean, to see Peter scramble to get back to Aunt May's house before 10:00 PM in order to keep his identity hidden was just plain idiotic to me. As I mentioned previously, I don't find secret identity plot points to be particularly compelling. In small doses, it's fine (like multiversal and time travel stories). But after a while it becomes EXTREMELY repetitive. And did I mention how INCREDIBLY unrealistic it is?

To see Murdock become a respected lawyer in the public arena as well as an admired superhero (and NOT a troubled vigilante) is something that appeals to me a great deal. The 2003 movie and the Netflix series already covered that territory. I wanna see a new interpretation of DD in live-action now. Since Sony/Marvel rebooted Spider-Man, they had to differentiate Parker from previous versions of Spider-Man. Some fans don't like it, but I understand why Feige and company didn't do ANOTHER origin story. When you reboot characters, they have to change in order to make them stand out from what came before. Sometimes it doesn't work (the DCEU's Superman and Batman are examples of this), but I actually think the MCU did a good job with Spider-Man.