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  1. #46
    Spectacular Member Ikari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lunarmagik View Post
    That's kind of my point. It's like she's doing the stuff, apparently, but she never commits. I mean even if she did, a lot of gay people think they like people of the opposite gender when they are younger(like Bobby).

    I suppose we would need to see her responding to a woman flirting with her. Also, i don't think you need to disclose your sexuality everyone someone flirts at you, shutting them down is more than enough.
    Sure thing. Like most things about Magik, her relationship with Kitty is up to different interpretations. For example, when Kitty danced with Larry and Illyana was dismissive about it - was she jealous, or envious? Or was it just "she's my only friend, don't want some guy taking her away" platonic jealousy?
    From writing perspective, Illyana is a character whose appeal is partly based on aura of mystery around her. Showing her in a relationship would force her to expose her inner self, which she in-character seems unwilling to do, and on meta level, writers are unwilling to do too. So keeping her single works on both levels.

  2. #47
    Astonishing Member CellarDweller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lunarmagik View Post
    I think Illyana can work as a lesbian or as bi/pan with a preference for women, but I can see her as asexual. Her closest relationships tend to be with women(kitty, dani), and there are writers who tend to see her as queer, but no one has done anything with it so, shrugs

    Yeah, there were implications/overtones of 'Yana being gay, but I never bought it, but I didn't buy her as straight either.

    With all of her time in isolation in Limbo, it always made sense to me that she would be asexual. She certainly didn't develop an attraction to Sym or Belasco, she saw Storm as a mentor, and if I remember correctly (it's been a long time since I've read her mini-series) she was afraid of Kitty because of the way Belasco transformed her.

    It's not like she had a lot of options or opportunities to bond with someone in a sexual/romantic way. I wouldn't be surprised if she had anti-social tendencies due to lack of bonding with anyone during her formative years.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by CellarDweller View Post
    Yeah, there were implications/overtones of 'Yana being gay, but I never bought it, but I didn't buy her as straight either.

    With all of her time in isolation in Limbo, it always made sense to me that she would be asexual. She certainly didn't develop an attraction to Sym or Belasco, she saw Storm as a mentor, and if I remember correctly (it's been a long time since I've read her mini-series) she was afraid of Kitty because of the way Belasco transformed her.

    It's not like she had a lot of options or opportunities to bond with someone in a sexual/romantic way. I wouldn't be surprised if she had anti-social tendencies due to lack of bonding with anyone during her formative years.
    There is a type of existential survivor's guilt that infects and settles into the mind and deep unconscious like bone-cancer eats into the skeleton. It targets those persistently and mercilessly abused and treated as a thing in early youth, especially victims of relentless sexual abuse, 'our little secret' (See the book, "The Boy Named 'it' " )

    It's because it's easier to believe that the universe makes sense and that the individual deserved to be abused because they were 'bad', rather than believing they are themselves OK, and that bad things happened because the universe is chaotic, meaningless, and insane, but the good news is there's absolutely nothing you can do to prevent absolutely destruction and misery to everyone and everything you love.

    In Illyana's case, she CAN control the destruction she brings with her everywhere she goes by never opening up her heart (given she has less than 3/5th of a corrupted soul, consecrated to the destruction and devouring of the Omniverses by the Elder Gods.)

    Which is to say, she's the living Embodiment of the question, "what does it profit someone to gain the whole world if they lose their soul?"

    (White magic involving only volunteers willingly and with foreknowledge paying the cost for the change the magic brings, black magic being about forcing or tricking someone to pay the price for you, benefiting you but costing them.)

    Always remember, her intrinsic character design is like (old school) Rogue, Wither, Proteus, or Selene:

    Every single person Illyana has loved deeply and truly has died at least once, most of whom she has herself personally killed, or feels responsible for deaths she could have prevented if she had made better choices.

    Colossus and Wolverine died to protect her in Limbo before she arrived, she killed Cat by breaking her neck, stabbed Old Woman Orroro, allowed Belasco to live , every new mutant other than Bobby fried because she refused to obey the Beyonder as his disciple and chose to save Kitty instead {who received the SoulSword, SoulArmor, and Beatrice Medallion when Illyana died, while retaining memory of the New Mutants, {which meant even the Beyonder couldn't overcome Magik's choice to protect Kitty, who then confronted the Beyonder dressed in SoulArmor, one of two people most pivotal to saving the Multiverse at that point}, Cypher died because Illyana teleported the New Mutants around to play and search for BirdBoy island, all the X-Men died in Dallas, especially Piotr whom she herself teleported there, leading to Inferno, her brother Mikhail intentionally infected her with mutant-specific Legacy/HIV/AIDS and her parents died when she didn't protect them because she had already killed herself, the 'run over by the Magik Bus' thing repeated with how Old Man Colosus was murdered by Young Man Xavier because she brought Old Piotr back from the future, and she killed her apprentice Sapna while protecting all of Mutantdom from Inhumans, and all of the 616 from the World Eater.

    Illyana is damned, double damned, poisonous, venomous, and toxic, as damned as Sisyphus, Tantalus, Lucifer, or Faust.

    As they said if Lord Byron, Illyana 1.0 was "mad, bad, and dangerous to know", whereas Illyana 2.0 is a strange combination of "Darkness and Hurt Given Form" who obliterated Hell Lords and Space Gods by manipulating all of Mutantdom and pantheons of gods and demons, plus "The Nice One" who attends pre-teen unbirthday parties and arranges for shopping sprees and deliveries of teleported beignets and crepes from Paris.

    Remember, the only time Illyana ever truly had an uncontrolled deep belly laugh, Cypher died hours later, all because she wanted to 'have fun', since after all, nothing bad was going to happen, so she could let her guard down, right?

    Perhaps that's why she's starting to flirt with disposable non-humans; maybe she expects dating her will be like someone having a one-night-stand with Selene or a shouting argument with Mathew Malloy ("I would tear you apart as the she-bear does the baby goat"... "That's not a 'no'...")

    As far as I can tell, by that criteria, Empath, Xavier, Belasco, and Kulan Gath are the only people she hates or is sufficiently indifferent about to risk loving them: a Paradox of the first order (she hung out slightly mesmerized with Nightmare for a while in a Dr. Voodoo book briefly, and Nightmare's splinter-realm was the first annihilated when Amanda was pretending to be her while she was mostly Dead in the Magik miniseries {not Magik: Storm and Illyana, which is a separate miniseries})
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    Last edited by G0RM; 01-10-2021 at 04:44 AM.

  4. #49
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    In the end, the tragic fulcrum moment of Illyana's life wasn't killing Cat, which was inevitable by that point.

    The pivotal moment was when she literally turned towards EVIL to gain power rather than risking being hurt by allowing herself to trust love, be vulnerable, literally 'open to being wounded'.
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  5. #50
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    The horror of that scene is that it is also the exact moment she gained the favor of the Elder Gods, overtaking Belasco such that the magik of Limbo fed her power and knowledge she had never learned, precisely because she DID ask evil for power, giving into fear rather than 'fearing no evil' and turning toward love. (She was only 2/5th corrupted at this point)
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  6. #51
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    With the discussion of characters getting solos, I thought I'd discuss the solo I plotted for Age of Marvels here from 2014-2018. This was a 50 issue series for which I wrote a solicitation every month for 50 months, plus a few bonus issues, and it tells a complete story. I thought I'd lay out the story as the solicits were never supposed to reveal how plotlines got resolved.

    In the beginning, there was a little girl who was taken from her home by a very bad man. She was brought to Limbo by the realm's ruler, a dark sorcerer named Belasco. He told her that he loved her and that she was meant for a great destiny, but first she would have to prove herself worthy. So he sent her out into the wilds of Limbo to survive by herself for a month. While the child was terrified, spending the first days running from every creature she encountered whether big or small, eventually hunger drove her to her first kill, a small demon which could not defend itself at all. Gradually her heart became hardened by the experience, and she learned to fight and kill bigger demons as well, both to defend herself and for sustenance. Belasco was most pleased with her progress when he let her back into his castle at the end of the month. And so began Illyana Rasputin's training in the mystic arts.

    Years passed. The now teenaged Illyana grew steadily in skill, power, and knowledge, learning hundreds of spells and mastering the blade. She also began to discover her mutant power, which was to control the stepping disks of Limbo. One day, a portal appeared in her room in the castle, from which dropped a human boy who would change everything. His name was Doug Ramsay, and though he did not know it yet, he was a mutant with the power to understand and speak any language, and it was this power which accidentally caused him to wind up in Limbo. Illyana, having never met anyone her own age before, decided to keep this newcomer as a pet. Knowing that her master would not approve of Doug and kill him if he was in a merciful mood, Illyana kept the existence of her new pet a secret from Belasco.

    Soon afterwards, a daemonic assassin attempted to murder Illyana in Belasco's citadel. The young sorceress was caught off guard by the attack, the first of its kind within Belasco's walls. However, the ones who sent the assassin underestimated her power, and she was able to overcome her would-be killer. Belasco was furious when he learned of the attempted slaying of his beloved Darkchild and immediately began investigating where the assassin came from. He kept the details from Illyana, who began to suspect that she was not the only one keeping secrets. While Belasco's distraction made keeping Doug's existence a secret and protecting him easier, she grew more and more uneasy. Enlisting Doug's help, she began to search through Belasco's library for the answers, his power allowing him to read ancient languages that she had not yet been allowed to learn. What they discovered shattered her entire world.

    Meanwhile, Belasco went to meet with the ones who had sent the assassin, his fellow Hell Lords Hella, Blackheart, and Sattanish. They were marshalling their respective armies to make war upon Limbo, and the only thing that would dissuade them was Illyana's life. Refusing this outright, Belasco went to seek the aid of the one Hell Lord who had not joined together with them in order to kill the Darkchild, Mephisto.

    Upon his return to Limbo, Belasco was confronted by an enraged Illyana, who revealed that she had learned the true reason he had taken her as his apprentice and was turning pieces of her soul into bloodstones. When all of the bloodstones were in place and Illyana's power was at its peak, Belasco intended to sacrifice her to open a dimensional gateway which would allow his own masters, the Elder Gods, to invade earth. The Hell Lords sought to kill Illyana before this could happen, as the Elder Gods were a threat even to their power.

    Illyana attacked her now-former master with a fury which he could not withstand, and Belasco was forced to flee, leaving Illyana as the new ruler of Limbo. Unfortunately, her inexperience in this position left Limbo even more vulnerable, and it was quickly invaded by the armies of the Hell Lords, who were still determined to end Illyana's dark destiny then and there. Illyana attempted to use her knowledge of Belasco's plans to form an alliance with the Hell Lords, but they would not listen to her.

    Illyana and Doug were saved when Mephisto appeared with his own army, calling on the other Hell Lords to cease their assault and focus on the real threat, Belasco. With their victory now far from assured, the Hell Lords reluctantly agreed. Doug's powers proved invaluable in bridging the divides between Illyana, Mephisto, and the other Hell Lords and in securing an uneasy truce.

    Illyana told them that now that Belasco had lost her as a resource, he would attempt to use the three bloodstones he had to summon the Elder Gods. Such an act carried great risk for him, as without her to sacrifice it could kill him. But with his Darkchild added to the list of enemies he had made, he was now desperate, and if he was going to die, it would be in fulfillment of his mission.

    The Hell Lords agreed to pool their power in order to create a weapon capable of defeating the Elder Gods, a weapon which until then had existed only in myth. However, it was at this point that Mephisto revealed what he wanted in return for helping Illyana: her hand in marriage. He had watched her more closely than any save Belasco and had become enamored with her. In addition, he wished to unite his hell with that of Limbo, an act which would clearly establish him as the greatest of all Hell Lords. But when Illyana turned down his offer of marriage, he became enraged. He sabotaged the master spell to create the weapon and seemingly killed Doug Ramsey, taking the boy's soul back with him to his own realm and leaving the other Hell Lords to fend for themselves.

    Illyana followed after Mephisto, determined to get Doug's soul back. However, she found this realm far different from Limbo, and a single mistake would cost her her own soul, making her Mephisto's for all eternity.

    While Illyana was off in hell, Belasco completed his spell to summon the Elder Gods, and the remaining Hell Lords were helpless to stand against them. All they are able to do is slow the gods down.

    Illyana succeeded in rescuing Doug's soul, and the two of them escaped hell with a furious Mephisto chasing them down. Upon seeing that the Elder Gods have been released, they attempted something new, a spell which was neither black and white and yet both at the same time. Using knowledge gained from Doug's translations and the remaining power from the failed spell of the Hell Lords, Illyana took the small part of her soul that remained pure and fashioned it into a new weapon, the soul sword. With this blade, she was able to break the imperfect spell Belasco had cast with the bloodstones, sending the Elder Gods back into their prison.

    With the battle over, the Hell Lords went back to their own realms to rebuild their forces. Mephisto left as well, afraid to challenge Illyana now that she wielded the soul sword. Belasco was also seemingly killed when he cast his spell, leaving the bloonstones to Illyana, who was now fully established as the true ruler of Limbo and a Hell Lord to be reckoned with. Now considering Doug to be a friend rather than a pet, she sent him back to earth as she prepared to return to the world of her birth herself.


    That was the first arc, which was 8 issues plus a 'zero' issue which depicted Illyana's month surviving in Limbo by herself. Before the first solicit came out I posted this video as a preview. I think it should be a bit clearer why Belasco was always shown when the lyrics 'I can tell that you've never been true to me' played and why Mephisto always appeared when it said 'I can hear what you're hoping I want to hear.'

    https://vimeo.com/97439284


  7. #52
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    sunofdarkchilde:

    There are some unfortunate elements of regular 616 Illyana's character concept, in that is not trivial for Hell Lords to share power.

    I wrote long ago, that the instant Sapna commanded one of the Limbo demons, that 'there could be only one'.

    I was shouted down by other readers here, but it seemed quite obvious to me that Sapna, who had a mutant ability to connect to mystic languages and decrypt an interdimensional portal matrix, would be in a 'this town ain't big enough for the both of us' situation.

    Cypher in Asgard, translating the Enchantress's grimoires is one thing, but Cypher in Limbo is like Warlock in Limbo: a threat to Magik's Dominion.

  8. #53
    Amazing Member lunarmagik's Avatar
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    If I remember correctly, it's a bit more complicated than that.

    It wasn't so much that Sapna was disrupting limbo because she was too powerful, it was that she was being manipulated and used by the World Eater to attack Limbo. Like, by having absorbed all the magical knowledge of Magik/limbo she became an easy target as she was still just a child this greater being could use.

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  9. #54
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    Sapna's power wasn't magical in nature at all. It was pretty much the same as Cypher's, except she assimilated a lot of magical information at once because her power manifested in Limbo.

    But really, that's the complaint, that Doug uses his power to help figure out what's going on in Limbo - when Belasco is still ruler, I might add - and then to broker an uneasy peace?

  10. #55
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    These sorts of articles are dumb fun no one should take seriously, but dumb fun is still fun. 5 Marvel Heroes Zatanna Would Make Disappear (& 5 She’d Lose To)

    https://www.cbr.com/zatanna-vs-marvel-heroes/

  11. #56
    Invincible Member juan678's Avatar
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  12. #57
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    dammit, now I'm going to have to buy this...

  13. #58
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    This a ranking of all comics, so not just Marvel, but DC and all the smaller companies as well.

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  15. #60
    Invincible Member juan678's Avatar
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    Strance academy 8 cover Variant Jae Anacleto

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