Illyana Nikolievna Rasputina: MAGIK appreciation 2021

[Scavenger]

and doesn’t discuss the ‘Illyana and Storm’ Limited Series or newer stories.

It doesn't discuss the MAGIK series? That would seem to invalidate the entire premise.

[Oldandevil]

It doesn't discuss the MAGIK series? That would seem to invalidate the entire premise.

I believe the premise is not to establish if Illyana was abused but how she, and those around her, coped with the trauma. Her survival was the largest part of her story up to when Claremont left the New Mutants and that is the focus of the video.

[rcaguy]

CONTENT WARNING: Discussion of Possible Sexual Abuse in a Comic Book setting.
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There is a new YouTube video about Illyana. I am putting the video’s information here so you can choose to read it or not yourself.

Title: Magik as a Symbol of Sexual Trauma

Chanel: Jonathon Deman

Subject: In this video we explore how the story of Illyana Rasputin (aka Magik) offers a rare and poignant symbolic representation of sexual trauma.
Note: The video DOES NOT use graphic language or images , but it is very candid about the poster’s opinion that Illyana has been written as an allegory of Childhood Sexual Abuse. The video focus on the New Mutants (1983-1991) and Uncanny X-Men (1963-2011) books and doesn’t discuss the ‘Illyana and Storm’ Limited Series or newer stories.

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q5mQ4l4bSQ&t=1s

I haven't laughed so hard since I saw the New Mutants Moive. Does this guy have the slighest clue of what's he talking about? Hell no.

[Oldandevil]

I haven't laughed so hard since I saw the New Mutants Moive. Does this guy have the slighest clue of what's he talking about? Hell no.

Please expand on this. I would like to understand your view of the video. I find the poster's opinions to be plausible but want to hear an apposing view.

[WallStreeter]

I haven't laughed so hard since I saw the New Mutants Moive. Does this guy have the slighest clue of what's he talking about? Hell no.

Illyria was certainly sexually abused by Belasco. He wanted her powers, and he took advantage of her in a physical sense as well.

[sunofdarkchild]

I don't get this need to focus on sex when it comes to Illyana. She suffered pretty much every type of abuse imaginable in Limbo with the only kind she possibly didn't suffer being the sexual kind.

Her story is about trying not to be like her abuser, which is why what she did to Pixie made her want to die. That's why she's never been in a relationship. She's afraid of hurting them the way she was hurt.


On that note, there was a moment in Curse of the Man-Thing that really stuck with me. When Sallis asks "where is he," referring to Belasco, Illyana answers "he doesn't matter." Given her history, the way he stole her childhood, tore her soul apart, killed her friends, and abused her for years, for her to be able to say that about Belasco is really powerful. It signals that she's truly moved beyond him. He is no longer the specter that haunts her life. He truly no longer matters. This is re-enforced later in the conversation when she says "I'm not Belasco."

What a difference from Hellbound, where she asked Pixie to kill her and said: "You show me every day that I have become what I hated ... Belasco."

[rcaguy]

Please expand on this. I would like to understand your view of the video. I find the poster's opinions to be plausible but want to hear an apposing view.

Would if it was worth doing so,but it's not. Basically this video is more QAnon nonsense.

[sunofdarkchild]

Please expand on this. I would like to understand your view of the video. I find the poster's opinions to be plausible but want to hear an apposing view.

The focus on sexual abuse is myopic. As I and others have pointed out, she is a victim of many forms of abuse and her story is meant to be taken to be about abuse in general, not one specific form of abuse. Her primary struggle is about not becoming like her abuser, something she has done a few times, but she always manages to pull herself back. I'll quote from a comment on the video: "her story doesn't change whatsoever if she was sexually abused in Limbo or not."

There are other aspects to her character that are completely ignored. Part of her struggle is about nature vs nurture. Harry Potter may say that 'it is our choices that show us who we are far more than our abilities,' but that doesn't necessarily hold true for Illyana. The power she wields is evil by its very nature and corrupts even when it is used for good. Another big part of struggle is whether this power that is inherently evil can still be used to do good or if it is all doomed to failure.

Lastly, I have on several occasions called Illyana the 'anti-Jean Grey,' because when faced with the same dilemma - having to maintain total control every seco9nd of every day or else she will destroy the world, Illyana does not choose to simply end her life. She expresses a desire to be dead on multiple occasions - in the issue where she joins the New Mutants she says that she wishes she hadn't survived Limbo. But she still chooses to live, even though she has no hope, she chooses to keep fighting, to say 'someday I will fall, but not today.'

All of this is lost in a focus on sexual trauma which can plausibly be said to have never happened in the first place and is completely unnecessary to her story. It is at most a minor detail, an 'and maybe this happened too' in a lifetime of other suffering. The video says making it explicit was smart on the movie's part. I say it was a stupid move because it took the magic out of Magik and the origin it gave her makes no sense. Now she never learned sorcery and everything she does is because she's a reality-warping mutant like Legion or Franklin Richards. And it assumes that a little child would create hell as her safe place instead of a land of ponies or Disneyland. All they needed to do was keep her origin a mystery without changing it, but they didn't, and as a result the character portrayed in the movie is Illyana Rasputin in name only. She's not a sorceress and her character traits are completely different.

I recommend this article from 2018. A Second Look at Magik: Redefining What it Means to be a Female Hero

This argues that the way she is permanently changed by her suffering and trauma is something that is generally reserved for male characters. "Magik dismantles her expected role as a female superhero. She keeps one foot in Limbo and one on Earth. She is constantly struggling with her traumatic past but she adamantly refuses to succumb to it. For Magik, a female superhero (or a female in general) is not so simplistic as the terms good and evil. A female superhero can be a mixture of vice and virtue and still be a hero. To save the world, a pure, innocent soul isn’t needed."

And not one word in the whole thing about sexual trauma.

[Oldandevil]

Would if it was worth doing so,but it's not. Basically this video is more QAnon nonsense.

I must admit that I cannot fathom how this video could be "QAnon", though "nonsense" might be justified. I am not an expert but the only connection I can see to QAnon is that some followers believe in a conspiracy theory where one of the elements is child sexual abuse. I find myself glad that they don't think the video is worth further comment.

[Oldandevil]

The focus on sexual abuse is myopic. As I and others have pointed out, she is a victim of many forms of abuse and her story is meant to be taken to be about abuse in general, not one specific form of abuse. Her primary struggle is about not becoming like her abuser, something she has done a few times, but she always manages to pull herself back. I'll quote from a comment on the video: "her story doesn't change whatsoever if she was sexually abused in Limbo or not."

Thank you sunofdarkchild, I appreciate and respect your opinions. I disagree with some of them, based on my own personal and professional experiences, but do not wish to devalue any of them.

The character of Illyana is a victim of severe abuse and her story is her dealing with that abuse without letting it destroy her. As her story progresses, Claremont show us how she overcomes the damage the abuse did to her soul. I agree that her primary struggle is not becoming Belasco, but there is another struggle that goes to the video’s point. Illyana was afraid of what the people would think of her if they knew she was a demon sorceress. This it the struggle that mirrors those who have suffered long-term child sexual abuse. Issue 3 of the Magic Limited Series opens with Illyana thrilling “to Belasco’s voice, his touch, his very presence”. The shame a child feels when they find pleasure at the abuser’s hand is one of the most painful and difficult struggles a victim will face, and is not found in other abuse types.

We are both fans of Illyana and her fight to overcome the evil that would consume so many heroes, male or female. She is far deeper then other characters, and you correctly point out the New Mutant movie should have done better with her. Nothing you say is wrong and I don’t consider the video to be the ultimate authority on her backstory. I do, however, believe it is ‘reasonable’ that Claremont wrote Illyana to be a symbolic representation of a sexual trauma victim. This does not diminish Illyana, and neither is it trivial to acknowledge it is a valid point of view… it would demand we accept a very uncontrollable ideas.

Thank you for the link.

[sunofdarkchild]

Thank you sunofdarkchild, I appreciate and respect your opinions. I disagree with some of them, based on my own personal and professional experiences, but do not wish to devalue any of them.

The character of Illyana is a victim of severe abuse and her story is her dealing with that abuse without letting it destroy her. As her story progresses, Claremont show us how she overcomes the damage the abuse did to her soul. I agree that her primary struggle is not becoming Belasco, but there is another struggle that goes to the video’s point. Illyana was afraid of what the people would think of her if they knew she was a demon sorceress. This it the struggle that mirrors those who have suffered long-term child sexual abuse. Issue 3 of the Magic Limited Series opens with Illyana thrilling “to Belasco’s voice, his touch, his very presence”. The shame a child feels when they find pleasure at the abuser’s hand is one of the most painful and difficult struggles a victim will face, and is not found in other abuse types.

We are both fans of Illyana and her fight to overcome the evil that would consume so many heroes, male or female. She is far deeper then other characters, and you correctly point out the New Mutant movie should have done better with her. Nothing you say is wrong and I don’t consider the video to be the ultimate authority on her backstory. I do, however, believe it is ‘reasonable’ that Claremont wrote Illyana to be a symbolic representation of a sexual trauma victim. This does not diminish Illyana, and neither is it trivial to acknowledge it is a valid point of view… it would demand we accept a very uncontrollable ideas.

Thank you for the link.

Shame and guilt at having been abused are common to all types of abusive relationships. Especially in 'parent-child; abusive relationships, the adult will make the child feel that he or she deserves the abuse and that it is all the child's fault. They can even make the child think the abuse is proof of that the abuser truly loves them and welcome it for that reason. Stockholme Syndrome is also a thing. All of this can apply to sexual abuse, but none of it is unique to it. Many people who go through trauma are ashamed to admit it or talk about it for fear of being stigmatized, from abuse survivors to soldiers suffering PTSD from war.

Much of this can be seen in the Frollo-Quasimodo relationship in Disney's Hunchback of Notre Dame. Frollo doesn't abuse Quasimodo either sexually or physically, but it is a textbook adult-child abuse case for how he makes Quasimodo hate himself and fear how the rest of the world would look at him. Like Quasimodo, Illyana's fear of others finding out what she really is is also based on something that goes beyond the abuse they received. He really is deformed and hideous in a world that values beauty, and she really does have an evil growing inside her and could kill everyone she loves by accident or on purpose if she doesn't keep in under control.

[Oldandevil]

sunofdarkchild - I don't believe this is the place to discuss this question, though I have written my reply to your post. Let's just agree that unless and until Chris Claremont address this issue it will remain a matter of opinion. I, for one, hope he never has and never will.

[sunofdarkchild]

Another 'Krakoan moment,' set during the party when the people who went on the Orchis mission were brought back.


The sun was setting on the fourth day of Kitty's voyage to Krakoa. The self-proclaimed 'captain' of her pilfered vessel stared out over the horizon as the sea briefly turned gold. Soon the water would turn black and the only light would be the stars in the sky.

Kitty was very fortunate that the weather had been so clear during her journey. A storm would have made the sea rough in addition to getting her soaked whenever she needed to steer. Still, she would have preferred to not have to use a boat at all. If only the Krakoan gates would let her pass. But the gates remained closed to her, and she had the broken nose and black eye to prove it.

At least Lockheed was enjoying himself. The little dragon loved dive-bombing the sea to snatch fish in his jaws, and it provided a nice source of food for Kitty as well. She was starting to get a little tired of fried fish, however.

As the golden light faded, Kitty sighed and went to open Logan's whiskey container. There wasn't much for her to do when she wasn't steering other than drink like a pirate.

She had barely flipped the lid open when a bright light made her quint. Kitty turned to see her best friend, Illyana Rasputin, standing in the middle of the boat.

Lockheed practically shot out of the water to land on Illyana's shoulder and begin licking her face.

"There's big party going on on Krakoa," Illyana said. "You want to come?"

Kitty shook her head. If I can't use the gates then I want to get to Krakoa on my own terms."

Illyana shrugged. "I figured you'd be stubborn." She raised her hands, revealing two glass bottles of what Kitty could only assume were alcoholic beverages. "How about we celebrate here then?"

Kitty grinned as she closed the lid. Logan's whiskey was safe for now. "Sounds could. I've been needing a drinking buddy the last few days."

Illyana handed her one of the bottles and they sat down on the bow of the boat.

"Manischewitz," Kitty said as she took a close look at the label on the wine Illyana brought. "Wow. Can't remember the last time I had that. What've you got, Vodka?"

Illyana made a dismissive sound. "Please, I'm not that much of a masochist. I'm not really sure what this is, but the name sounded like Moscow."

"Moscato?"

"Yeah. That's it."

Kitty popped the cork on her wine bottle. "So what's the party for? Everyone's celebrating independence day?"

"Sort of," Illyana answered. "The Five brought back Scott and the others. So we're celebrating defeating death."

"I'll drink to that," Kitty said. She and Illyana brought their bottles together. "To beating death."

They each took a swig. Kitty tasted the wine and was transported back to her childhood, before she discovered she was a mutant, when she celebrated the Jewish holidays with her parents.

Kitty let out a large burp and turned to her friend. Illyana still hadn't taken a breath and was continuing to chug down her bottle.

"All right, what's wrong?"

Illyana removed the bottle from her mouth and took her time swallowing before answering. "Why should anything be wrong?"

"Oh, come on. You only drink when you're upset about something."

"But I'm always upset about something."

Kitty gave her a light punch on the shoulder. "You know what I mean. What's got you down this time? You got doubts about Krakoa?"

"No. I..."

"Come on," Kitty prodded. "You can tell me anything."

Even if she pretended otherwise, Kitty knew that Illyana was a novice at drinking and that a little alcohol was all it took to crack the stoic mask she wore all the time, even if it was a wine as light as Moscato.

Illyana looked away, "It just ... seeing them being brought back so easily ... I couldn't help thinking ... if I wasn't here, they could have brought her back."

"Her?" Kitty asked in confusion.

"The other me," Illyana clarified.

"Oh," Kitty said, taking a deep breath. "Ohhhhhh."

"She could have come back and been raised in paradise, being taken care of by her big brother, if I wasn't here. The innocent little girl everyone loved and mourned would be back, and everyone would be happier."

"That's not true!" Kitty yelled. She looked down. "At least, if it came down to it, if I had the choice, I'd have asked the professor to bring back the older you, the one who was my roommate."

Illyana looked surprised, and Kitty sighed. "Do you have any idea what it did to me when you were replaced by your younger self after the Inferno? I was devastated, and I took my anger out on the New Mutants. I said horrible things to them. Even though the soul sword came to me, I refused to use it because I didn't want to be reminded of losing you. That's why I gave the sword to Amanda in the end."

Illyana was completely flustered. "I-I didn't know."

"I adored that little girl, but ... I couldn't help wishing from time to time you were there instead. I knew I was being selfish, but I just wanted my best friend back."

Kitty reached over Illyana's should and pulled her close. "And I'm sure all the New Mutants felt the same way. Even Peter wouldn't care if it was the older you or the younger you, just that he had you back. So many people love you just the way you are, and we wouldn't change a thing about you."

Kitty felt something wet on her shoulder. Lockheed jumped onto Illyana's lap and began to lick her face again. The water running down her cheeks was not quite as salty at the water he had been swimming in earlier, but it was still quite salty.

Shortly after her return, Emma Frost had told Illyana that the only reason she was accepted among the X-Men was because "everyone remembers you as an impossibly innocent young girl whose life was cut short by a horrible disease." And Illyana never had any reason to think otherwise. After all, who wouldn't prefer a happy-go-lucky kindergartener to a demon sorceress? She had accepted it as a matter of course that her brother preferred the version of her who needed him to take care of her, and that Kitty preferred the version of her friends she was never angry at. Hearing Kitty's true feelings now was shattering her self-perception, and she was struggling to believe it.

"You shouldn't dwell on what-ifs," Kitty said. "You should celebrate. You've done as much to bring this about as anyone. Without you, there might not have been a Krakoa. The world might have been uninhabited for mutants, and Eva and Fabio might not have been there to be part of The Five."

Illyana lifted her head and pulled Kitty into a tight embrace.

"Thank you. You've always been my best friend too."

Kitty laughed. "One thing about the way it all worked out: I kind of get the best of both worlds with you. I got my friend back, but now I'm so much older than you I get to be your big sister too."

Illyana nodded and wiped her eyes. "And I couldn't have asked for a better big sister."

When they at last let go of each other, Illyana sat there as Kitty finished her Manischewitz wine. She no longer had any need for alcohol.

"Ah, that was good," Kitty said as she wiped her mouth with her sleeve. "Really made me feel like a kid again. You gonna get back to the party?"

"I dunno," Illyana said. "I kind of like how quiet it is out here."

Kitty reached over and pushed Illyana overboard. The sorceress was not expecting the move at all and plopped face-first into the water.

Illyana took a deep breath as she surfaced and glared daggers at Kitty. "What was that for?"

"Go on. Have fun," Kitty said. "I'll see you on Krakoa in a couple of days, maybe even tomorrow."

Illyana tried to splash Kitty, but the bow was too high up for the water to reach higher than her feet.

"All right," she said at last. The ocean around her began to glow white as she summoned a stepping disk to take her back to Krakoa.

Kitty picked up the half-finished bottle of Moscato and out the cap back on. She laid down on her back and stared up at the stars, with Lockheed cuddled up next to her head.

"I'll see you soon, little siss," she said to herself. "And this time everything's gonna be different."

[shooshoomanjoe]

She made an awesome villain in her Darkchyld persona.

[Scavenger]

Kitty reached over Illyana's should and pulled her close. "And I'm sure all the New Mutants felt the same way. Even Peter wouldn't care if it was the older you or the younger you, just that he had you back. So many people love you just the way you are, and we wouldn't change a thing about you."

"And Marvel and Disney, they much prefer the you they can put on covers as an adult in hot pants with a giant sword! Like, they like it so much, it's ridiculous how long it took for them to figure that out!"