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  1. #1006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    I feel FATW would be the perfect time to have them do the blood infusion like have Zemo attack Isaiah & Eli gets hurt in the process so they can make him a super soldier & just skip the whole Eli being addicted on drugs for powers storyline I really hated that in the comics I would prefer he starts off with his powers before meeting the others.
    The only reason I would have liked the MGH storyline is if they explored the idea of mutant appropriation *and* actually had him with an interesting mutant power (like when that dude in Runaways took an MGH variant called 'darkforce' and got Cloak's powers for a short time).

    I would have loved, for instance, a dude named 'Patriot' with temporary Cannonball powers, blasting into people shield-first and then picking himself up afterwards. (He's a Patriot *missile*, get it? Ha!)

    But no, he went from ill-defined MGH powers (maybe super-strength? A little?) to ill-defined super-soldier powers (super-hearing? Cap doesn't have that! WTF?). Yawn.

    And so it's the bad look of the black kid getting his powers from street drugs, for no damn story reason at all.

  2. #1007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    I feel like Speed could really use a push. Marvel has never really gone serious with a speedster character, and it's such a comic trope, with the success of the Flash (books, an event, a TV series, eventually a movie!), that it surprises me how little they've done with speedsters like Quicksilver and Speed Demon and nobodies like Nonstop and Black Racer. (Mutants like Northstar, Aurora and Surge get slightly better showings, because the X-verse is practically it's own franchise.)

    He's young. He's a bit of a stirrer-up of ****, like 90's era Conner/Superboy, with some attitude. I think he could carry a solo, as easily as Kate.

    Cassie I want to see in a father/daughter regular or mini with her dad (only for her dad to be slightly less of a goof, I'm not thrilled with the rush to Homer-ize characters like Clint Barton, Scott Lang or now Dane Whitman and make them quasi-incompetent screw-ups).

    Eli, something exploring his grandfather's legacy. Perhaps even someone like MCU Zemo, out to cull the various super-soldiers (or capture them, and use their blood to derive a new super-soldier serum for their own use, the Power Broker, maybe?) could be a personal nemesis, not just to him, but to grand-dad, and, eventually, various other super-soldiers like Steve (although the villain is going for the 'easy targets', in his estimation, like Isiah, and not starting out gunning for Captain Frikkin' America!).

    Jonas and Nate? (Ha, I didn't even remember his name! I called him 'Iron Lad.') I got nuthin.' But as long as Kang is a thing, Nate's not going anywhere. He's (ba dum tish!) got a future. [puts on shades]
    It's funny they don't use speedsters that much, because Marvel doesn't seem to have a problem with have a bunch of flying bricks.

  3. #1008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    It's funny they don't use speedsters that much, because Marvel doesn't seem to have a problem with have a bunch of flying bricks.
    There definitely seem to be some 'lanes.' DC has both the speedster and the energy-construct dude locked down with the Flash and Green Lantern mythos, but Marvel has like, Quicksilver and Quasar? Barely a blip on the radar, by comparison. But DC's 'Iron Man' is John Henry Irons/Steel, and they don't even have a Hulk, that I know of (Swamp Thing? The nu52 version of Damage?).

    It's cool that they each lean into their strengths, IMO, and don't have too many obvious clones of each other (other than the deliberate riffs like the Squadron Supreme or Imperial Guard).

  4. #1009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    There definitely seem to be some 'lanes.' DC has both the speedster and the energy-construct dude locked down with the Flash and Green Lantern mythos, but Marvel has like, Quicksilver and Quasar? Barely a blip on the radar, by comparison. But DC's 'Iron Man' is John Henry Irons/Steel, and they don't even have a Hulk, that I know of (Swamp Thing? The nu52 version of Damage?).

    It's cool that they each lean into their strengths, IMO, and don't have too many obvious clones of each other (other than the deliberate riffs like the Squadron Supreme or Imperial Guard).
    Idk, Nova, Wonder Man, Sentry, Hyperion, Captain Marvel and even Thor aren't really all that different. It's basically strength/speed/durability/flight + plus possible energy beam. And then guys like Hercules are just "strong". It's even less interesting IMO. At least Speed cam becoming intangible and make objects explode.

  5. #1010
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Mar-Vell's powers came from multiple sources, including some biological enhancements, the nega-bands, and a cosmic gift of awareness from Eon, so really, there's not a ton to 'pass on.'

    My fanon is that Teddy has low-level super-strength (not Thor, but more than Captain America, around early Luke Cage / Tigra / perhaps even Spider-Man? levels), and toughness, and can metabolize enough sunlight to levitate a bit (explaining why his dinky little shapeshifted wings can get his twunk ass off the ground), but not outright fly (without wings) like Mar-Vell could. But no energy blasts (that was all nega-bands) or cosmic awareness (that was all Eon, whom he's never met).

    That said, Genis and Phyla Vell have mysteriously 'inherited' some energy manipulation powers that Mar-Vell *never freaking had,* so I have no idea if Marvel has just quietly decided to ignore the nega-bands entirely and say that Mar-Vell had their powers natively and they were just fancy wrist-bling.

    Same sort of weirdness with Carol Danvers. A weird energy treatment gives her 'powers like Captain Mar-Vell,' only she can do stuff that he needed tech and the favor of a cosmic entity to do? Whatever.

    It's like Silk and her 'I got bit by a radioactive spider, so I can make webs from my fingertips, even though that's actually a thing Spider-Man does with web-shooters he built...' Right. And I took the super-soldier serum and an indestructible shield mysteriously grew out of my arm!
    Marvel science works in mysterious ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaximoffTrash View Post
    They are part Titan Eternal, maybe it's from that side?
    I'm actually not even sure if Genis and Phyla still count as Eternals, because Gillen recently decided to release a list of ''official'' Eternals with 100 of them, and neither the Vells nor their mother are listed there. I guess it's possible they are under the classified/hidden portion of the list, but since their Eternal origin was always weird to begin with (Elysius was never a ''natural'' Eternal, but an artificial being created out Eternal DNA or something like that), it's possible Marvel is retconning them as not being Eternals after all.

    Anyway, yeah, it's possible Genis and Phyla got their energy-based powers from her regardless of her origins, but I don't recall her ever displaying those type of powers either, so I guess it's just a mystery. lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Noek View Post
    The Kree did actually have a Royal family once. The Inhuman, House of Agon. War of Kings. Black Bolt took control, and Crystal&Ronan married. Billy does have a connection to them.
    That was an arrangement that didn't last that long. My point is that for that for the vast majority of its existence, Kree society was not a monarchy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Every now and then, for a tenth of a second, I feel bad for the fans of Eli, Kate, Cassie, Tommy and that one poor sod who likes Iron Lad or 'Jonas', since this thread is generally all about Teddy and Billy.
    Hey, I try my best. I even brought up Eli a few pages ago, but no one even replied. It's not my fault if Billy and Teddy just generate more conversation. lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Also, this is an odd question, but why was Thunderstrike never in any iteration of this group? Isn't he part of Thor's legacy how Stature is part of Ant-man's? I know they had Kid Loki, but why not an actual young Thor?
    Probably for the same reason we never got any other Hulk or Iron Man legacies on the team again. After Billy went from being a Thor legacy to being a Scarlet Witch legacy, Teddy went from being a Hulk legacy to being a Captain Marvel legacy and Nate just left the team for good, Marvel never tried to replace those legacies with new characters. I still think they should someday.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    I feel like Speed could really use a push. Marvel has never really gone serious with a speedster character, and it's such a comic trope, with the success of the Flash (books, an event, a TV series, eventually a movie!), that it surprises me how little they've done with speedsters like Quicksilver and Speed Demon and nobodies like Nonstop and Black Racer. (Mutants like Northstar, Aurora and Surge get slightly better showings, because the X-verse is practically it's own franchise.)

    He's young. He's a bit of a stirrer-up of ****, like 90's era Conner/Superboy, with some attitude. I think he could carry a solo, as easily as Kate.
    I think if Marvel play their cards right, Tommy could definitely be a breakout star in the MCU. There is a hole that was left by the early death of Quicksilver that's never really been filled again, and I think WandaVision kind of awakened that need for a speedster in the MCU again. I can definitely see Tommy filling that role in the future. And then hopefully from there, he can be more successful in other media too.

    And I know we're getting Makkari in the Eternals movie too, so I guess we'll have to see how that works out. But I don't think she really works as the ''Flash'' kind of speedster we're talking about here, since the Eternals tend to stay in their own bubble. I think Tommy is probably a better option for a more mainstream kind of superhero speedster, due to his personality and superhero connections. I mean, he was literally born as an Avenger legacy character, so he has that in his favor.
    Last edited by Drops Of Venus; 04-12-2021 at 12:44 PM.

  6. #1011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post


    That was an arrangement that didn't last that long. My point is that for that for the vast majority of its existence, Kree society was not a monarchy.
    It only really didn't last because... actually I forget why they weren't anymore. But the point is they are ok with a Monarchy and a non-Kree leading them.

  7. #1012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Every now and then, for a tenth of a second, I feel bad for the fans of Eli, Kate, Cassie, Tommy and that one poor sod who likes Iron Lad or 'Jonas', since this thread is generally all about Teddy and Billy.
    That's why I don't come in here that much. Someone just go ahead and make a Billy & Teddy thread already....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Was Jonas supposed to be a separate character? I'm still not sure. I think Marvel comics has moved on to Viv as Vision's legacy, leaving Jonas in limbo. And honestly, it weirded me out how Iron lad easily killed him and everyone just stood around, did nothing and let him go

    Also, this is an odd question, but why was Thunderstrike never in any iteration of this group? Isn't he part of Thor's legacy how Stature is part of Ant-man's? I know they had Kid Loki, but why not an actual young Thor?
    Jonas was Iron Lad's armor with Vision's operating system creating a new, unique entity....I would love to see him back in an old Human Torch type body....how would that affect him going from 40th century tech to something so 'primitive'.

    Because aside from Cassie all the characters are original creations. I personally want to see Thunderstrike and some other new members on a team reformed by Eli, Kate and Cassie.
    Last edited by Chris0013; 04-12-2021 at 01:10 PM.

  8. #1013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    Probably for the same reason we never got any other Hulk or Iron Man legacies on the team again. After Billy went from being a Thor legacy to being a Scarlet Witch legacy, Teddy went from being a Hulk legacy to being a Captain Marvel legacy and Nate just left the team for good, Marvel never tried to replace those legacies with new characters. I still think they should someday.



    I think if Marvel play their cards right, Tommy could definitely be a breakout star in the MCU. There is a hole that was left by the early death of Quicksilver that's never really been filled again, and I think WandaVision kind of awakened that need for a speedster in the MCU again. I can definitely see Tommy filling that role in the future. And then hopefully from there, he can be more successful in other media too.

    And I know we're getting Makkari in the Eternals movie too, so I guess we'll have to see how that works out. But I don't think she really works as the ''Flash'' kind of speedster we're talking about here, since the Eternals tend to stay in their own bubble. I think Tommy is probably a better option for a more mainstream kind of superhero speedster, due to his personality and superhero connections. I mean, he was literally born as an Avenger legacy character, so he has that in his favor.
    The Iron Man, Hulk and Vision legacies are all on the champions now, so I don't see the YA getting any anytime soon.

    I don't see most Eternals continuing besides Sersi. They're not that major to Marvel comics at least from what I've read. Honestly I'd like to see an alternate Quicksilver appear in the Multiverse at some point. As for Speed, I hope they use him properly, and I also hope speed isn't his only power. I think part of the reason the Flash works is because he's not just quick, but can do other stuff, and Speed has does so too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Jonas was Iron Lad's armor with Vision's operating system creating a new, unique entity....I would love to see him back in an old Human Torch type body....how would that affect him going from 40th century tech to something so 'primitive'.

    Because aside from Cassie all the characters are original creations. I personally want to see Thunderstrike and some other new members on a team reformed by Eli, Kate and Cassie.
    that clears it up. The thing with Vision is, he's a synthetic life form, not just a machine, so I think being IL's armor isn't enough. If Jonas returns, I think having his own body would actually be better. Maybe a synthezoid body upgrade by future tech.

    I mentioned Thunderstrike because it seems odd to me "young Thor" didn't get as much attention.

  9. #1014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    If we're talking about things that don't make sense... Realistically speaking, there would've been a huge pushback against Teddy becoming sole emperor of two huge societies that have existed for centuries. The fact that he was biologically related to Kree/Skrulls wouldn't automatically make him accepted, considering the Dorrek line hadn't been ruling for decades now. People who swore loyalty to other emperors (like Veranke and Kl'rt) surely would've had an issue with this boy just coming out of the blue and taking the throne. And even the people who blindly followed the Dorrek family would be bigoted as ****, since Dorrek VII tried to have Teddy murdered as a baby for being a hybrid. All of that discrimination suddenly disappeared with no explanation. And like I said, the Kree had no reason to serve Teddy, 'cause they didn't even believe in royalty before, and to top it off, Mar-Vell was considered a traitor to the Kree due to his allegiance to Earth and humans, and he died decades ago. So it's not even like he came from a family that was currently being all that respected in Kree (or Skrull) society. Do we really think that someone like Yon-Rogg, who hated Mar's guts, or many other extremist Kree soldiers would've been on board with a Vell offspring just running the show? There was a literal civil war between the Kree, who were divided into two huge factions, before Teddy took over, and he managed to get both sides to just settle down by becoming emperor without even trying.

    Let's be real: there was nothing realistic about how Teddy rose to power. As much as I like the idea, the execution required a lot of suspension of disbelief. So I'm not sure why people are drawing the line at him having adopted children, as if he couldn't just change the rules to his will like he has literally done until now to make everyone accept him as emperor. And even if they didn't accept it, why are we assuming Teddy wants to let his family rule the Alliance forever? Maybe he doesn't. Maybe after everything is in order, he plans on installing some democratic system in Kree/Skrull society so people can choose their rulers after he's gone. I could totally see him doing something like that as a way to improve their society and prevent tyrants like his grandparents to be put in undeserving positions of power.
    Good points. The story could have been better if Marvel slowly built it up with Teddy doing something big for both races, so he would be at least seen as a common hero for them. Instead they basically just found a random kid biologically related to both races and put him on the throne, even thought he have no knowledge about their society, culture and traditions, and was raised as human his entire life. And both races and Teddy himself are somehow ok with all of this.



    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    The Iron Man, Hulk and Vision legacies are all on the champions now, so I don't see the YA getting any anytime soon.

    The thing with Vision is, he's a synthetic life form, not just a machine, so I think being IL's armor isn't enough. If Jonas returns, I think having his own body would actually be better. Maybe a synthezoid body upgrade by future tech.

    I mentioned Thunderstrike because it seems odd to me "young Thor" didn't get as much attention.
    I never considered Iron Lad and Jonas to be important to the team, both of them are basically just plot devices to set things in motion, but once they role was fulfilled they became useless. Especially so with Iron Lad, he is destined to become Kang, and it was shown that if he doesn't return to his own time, then it would cause a disaster for entire timeline. So, keeping him and telling stories about him is meaningless, because all of it would be erased once he return back to his life. Similar to how Bendis brought young X-Men from the past - I never saw a point in them staying and Marvel giving them several books, because it was obvious from the start that sooner or later they would return back without remembering anything and/or revealed to be alternate reality versions, so reading about them was just a waste of time. And now, apart from Iceman being gay, and Cyclops having some attachment to the Champions, nothing else from the stories of their young versions is addressed by adult versions.

    But speaking about Iron Lad, I wonder, how MCU would gather Young Avengers and would they also include other teen characters like Spider-Man, Ironheart and Ms.Marvel, so it would be more a mix of Young Avengers and Champions. In comics they were gathered by Iron Lad based on Vision's failsafe program after Avengers disbanded. But in MCU Avengers are likely would go anywhere and stay active, and the only one who could have a list of youngsters with powers seems to be Nick Fury. So, who would gather them togehter and why?

  10. #1015
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Yeah, there's no way that they'll do both Champions and Young Avengers, so the MCU version will probably merge them. Several Champions are completely unusable anyway (Brawn would need to get his powers on the She-Hulk show, which is unlikely, Viv can't exist due to Vision's origin, and Unstoppable Wasp won't happen as Nadia already has a counterpart who's an adult. And aren't the MCU Novas powerless, which would rule out Sam?). So, I would expect a mostly YA team with Kamala and Riri included.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    There definitely seem to be some 'lanes.' DC has both the speedster and the energy-construct dude locked down with the Flash and Green Lantern mythos, but Marvel has like, Quicksilver and Quasar? Barely a blip on the radar, by comparison. But DC's 'Iron Man' is John Henry Irons/Steel, and they don't even have a Hulk, that I know of (Swamp Thing? The nu52 version of Damage?).

    It's cool that they each lean into their strengths, IMO, and don't have too many obvious clones of each other (other than the deliberate riffs like the Squadron Supreme or Imperial Guard).
    DC's most recent attempt at a Hulk is the post-Rebirth version of Damage, part of the New Age of DC Heroes line. He was very similar to Red Hulk II from U.S.Avengers.

    As well as Quasar, there's also Songbird. And yes, Steel is definitely their Iron Man, and Natasha Irons, who is also a version of Steel, has a lot in common with Ironheart.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    The Iron Man, Hulk and Vision legacies are all on the champions now, so I don't see the YA getting any anytime soon.

    that clears it up. The thing with Vision is, he's a synthetic life form, not just a machine, so I think being IL's armor isn't enough. If Jonas returns, I think having his own body would actually be better. Maybe a synthezoid body upgrade by future tech.
    Couldn't Jonas simply use the same tech as Viv?
    Last edited by Digifiend; 04-13-2021 at 01:00 AM.
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  11. #1016
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    The Iron Man, Hulk and Vision legacies are all on the champions now, so I don't see the YA getting any anytime soon.
    That's not really an issue. Both Teddy and Kamala are Captain Marvel legacies, so they can co-exist. The Champions also had a Patriot at one point, so...

    Quote Originally Posted by Harasar View Post
    Good points. The story could have been better if Marvel slowly built it up with Teddy doing something big for both races, so he would be at least seen as a common hero for them. Instead they basically just found a random kid biologically related to both races and put him on the throne, even thought he have no knowledge about their society, culture and traditions, and was raised as human his entire life. And both races and Teddy himself are somehow ok with all of this.
    Yeah, as much as I like the idea of Teddy being emperor, Marvel is just not giving us the development that this kind of story deserves. Everything feels so shallow. Like, Empyre has been over for months now, and what exactly are they doing with this story? They gave Wiccan and Hulkling a one-shot that was a total filler. Then they decided to shove them on a team book with 349843098349 characters, which will surely guarantee that the story can never really be about just Teddy and his challenges as emperor. It's not enough to give us this huge status quo shift and not give us a book going deep on what it means for all those characters going forward. The only way to continue that story in a satisfying way was to give us a book specifically about the Kree/Skrull Alliance, preferably a Hulkling solo, but of course we can't have nice things. They're too busy announcing the 20th X-Men book.

  12. #1017
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harasar View Post
    Good points. The story could have been better if Marvel slowly built it up with Teddy doing something big for both races, so he would be at least seen as a common hero for them. Instead they basically just found a random kid biologically related to both races and put him on the throne, even thought he have no knowledge about their society, culture and traditions, and was raised as human his entire life. And both races and Teddy himself are somehow ok with all of this.
    Honestly, I think factions on *both* sides (Glah-Ree and Klrt) have enough sense of realpolitick to realize that their own races will never obey *them* personally, but that if they shove this idealistic kid up on the throne, one who knows literally bupkiss about how the sausage that is their political system gets made, they can steer him wherever they want and basically run things from behind the throne (and have a break from the relentless pointless conflict that has kept both of their races from becoming a true galactic power like the Shiar).

    Only, shock and surprise, this kid's pretty good at it, and every bit as popular with the hoi-polloi as they built him up to be (so as to unify their fractious people with some bogus prophecy nonsense that literally nobody ever heard of until last year...) and now they are stuck in a bind, since they don't want to undercut him, and hence their own fragile grip on power, but the horse was supposed to pull the cart where *they* directed him to, and he's just going wherever the hell he wants!

    Who's driving this thing, anyway?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Couldn't Jonas simply use the same tech as Viv?
    I would want...and this is just one person's opinion...for Jonas to have a different body/power set. A Torch android body or an LMD with an integrated Guardian (Alpha Flight) battlesuit.

  14. #1019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    That's not really an issue. Both Teddy and Kamala are Captain Marvel legacies, so they can co-exist. The Champions also had a Patriot at one point, so...



    Yeah, as much as I like the idea of Teddy being emperor, Marvel is just not giving us the development that this kind of story deserves. Everything feels so shallow. Like, Empyre has been over for months now, and what exactly are they doing with this story? They gave Wiccan and Hulkling a one-shot that was a total filler. Then they decided to shove them on a team book with 349843098349 characters, which will surely guarantee that the story can never really be about just Teddy and his challenges as emperor. It's not enough to give us this huge status quo shift and not give us a book going deep on what it means for all those characters going forward. The only way to continue that story in a satisfying way was to give us a book specifically about the Kree/Skrull Alliance, preferably a Hulkling solo, but of course we can't have nice things. They're too busy announcing the 20th X-Men book.
    Yeah, yet another big world-changing thing that is not treated seriously by Marvel. He should have gotten an "Emperor Hulkling" series, at least a mini, to explore this alliance and his role in it and in galaxy. Funny what Marvel did pretty much the same to Shi'ar by putting Xandra on the throne with same justification "She is genetically related to previous rulers, so it is all cool". Never mind that girl was born just few days ago.

    Was it ever explained, from in-universe point of view, why Teddy still use "Hulkling" name? It was proven quite quickly in the first series that he has no relation to Hulk, so why he kept using this name?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Yeah, there's no way that they'll do both Champions and Young Avengers, so the MCU version will probably merge them. Several Champions are completely unusable anyway (Brawn would need to get his powers on the She-Hulk show, which is unlikely, Viv can't exist due to Vision's origin, and Unstoppable Wasp won't happen as Nadia already has a counterpart who's an adult. And aren't the MCU Novas powerless, which would rule out Sam?). So, I would expect a mostly YA team with Kamala and Riri included.
    Idk. I think the MCU could fit Brawn, Viv and Nova into the MCU. If She-Hulk joins the Avengers, should could help Brawn get his powers, and Vision or someone else could always create Viv. And Nova could be someone chosen to help rebuild Xandar after thanos.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    That's not really an issue. Both Teddy and Kamala are Captain Marvel legacies, so they can co-exist. The Champions also had a Patriot at one point, so...
    I don't think it's an issue. I'm just guessing why Marvel may not see the need to make that effort.

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