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  1. #1336
    Astonishing Member Journey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    Miss Chavez has had more "adjustments" to her character than Jean Grey has died.


    First, she's this out-of-nowhere-Baywatchy-space-babe with a hot temper and a mean right hook that nobody really foresaw becoming the phenomenon she is.

    Then, SURPRISE, she's BACK and she knows Kid Loki and she's got a whole easy-to-cosplay color coded theme and stars are now her BRAND and Billy is her quasi-god and she's from this Wonder Woman-esque Paradise Utopia in spaaaaaaace

    But wait, there's MOAR -- she's ACTUALLY a descendant of a seemingly Hispanic Alien race of Pro Wrestler Women created by Menstrual Magic Forces(?)....

    Ah but you thought that was it didn't you?! Well THE TRUTH IS spoilers:
    ..... science experiment
    end of spoilers
    This adequately explains it all! This is worse than Rivera didn't think that was possible.

  2. #1337
    Ultimate Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Very curious to see how the final issue concludes (There is one left, yes?) and whether THIS narrative sticks.

  3. #1338
    Astonishing Member Journey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    Very curious to see how the final issue concludes (There is one left, yes?) and whether THIS narrative sticks.
    Well as of now America is just like "Bitch you lying" to her "sister" so theirs a chance but I highly doubt it.

  4. #1339
    Ultimate Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    Well as of now America is just like "Bitch you lying" to her "sister" so theirs a chance but I highly doubt it.
    I mean, honestly, I would love if Gwenpool showed up and called out the retcons and rebrands. That would be very funny/meta of her.

  5. #1340
    Astonishing Member Journey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    I mean, honestly, I would love if Gwenpool showed up and called out the retcons and rebrands. That would be very funny/meta of her.
    If this whole run was a huge meta joke I'd enjoy that more then what I think we're actually getting! Like this whole thing is 1 huge reycon since Issue 1!

  6. #1341
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    I'm still going with my headcanon that this new origin for America is some bad person attempting to build a fake connection to her so that they can manipulate her somehow. Even DC wasn't so gauche as to try to get rid of Wonder Woman's all-lady-secret-paradise-backstory.

  7. #1342
    Mighty Member Krakoa's Avatar
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    Hate the retcon, which sucks because I thought the first two issues really added to America's backstory instead of taking away from it.

  8. #1343
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    So...a hero you love got retconned???



    I get people hate it...but stepping back it is probably one of the most 'rational' retcons I can remember. spoilers:
    A super powered little girl fabricated this story that her moms were NOT a couple of medical professionals engaged in un-ethical medical experimentation (even thought it was to save their daughter) but were extra-dimensional heroes who died trying to protect their world.
    end of spoilers

    edit...probably best I spoiler that as it just came out.
    Last edited by Chris0013; 05-05-2021 at 10:26 AM.

  9. #1344
    Ultimate Member Fokken's Avatar
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    You're not wrong, Chris. Great name btw. As far as establishing a grounded, more reality-based explanation for such a complex fantastical existence, it absolutely works and it works well, in my humble opinion.
    I'm very curious to see how some of the more complicated story threads linked to Chavez can or will be resolved, specific to this revelation.

  10. #1345
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    Very curious to see how the final issue concludes (There is one left, yes?) and whether THIS narrative sticks.
    Yeah, and we have to wait nine weeks for it!
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  11. #1346
    Astonishing Member Journey's Avatar
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    You know another big plot hole how the mom's were exhibit g specific powers when "Mother" reanimated them in volume 2, I guess you could just say that was mother all along, but that's bland like this whole thing is.

  12. #1347
    Mighty Member Krakoa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    You're not wrong, Chris. Great name btw. As far as establishing a grounded, more reality-based explanation for such a complex fantastical existence, it absolutely works and it works well, in my humble opinion.
    I'm very curious to see how some of the more complicated story threads linked to Chavez can or will be resolved, specific to this revelation.
    That's kinda exactly my problem with it though. I kinda feel like there's a motive behind us that because Chavez is a POC she has to have a "grounded" origin. I feel like POC characters rarely get to be fantastical and from utopian dimensions -- that was a cool, different origin for Chavez.

  13. #1348
    Ultimate Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krakoa View Post
    That's kinda exactly my problem with it though. I kinda feel like there's a motive behind us that because Chavez is a POC she has to have a "grounded" origin. I feel like POC characters rarely get to be fantastical and from utopian dimensions -- that was a cool, different origin for Chavez.
    Yeah despite it "working" as a story, I have to agree. Additionally, I just stumbled across this image from a past book,


    and it saddens me that a hero like Chavez gets the sad trauma origin pivot, from what was a beautiful and heart warming one. She was loved. She had pride. She wanted to honor her mothers and she was doing it. It was lovely. And whimsical. And fantastical. And now (if it stands) its bleak.
    Respectfully, I didn't care for the solo series that followed her Young Avenger debut but if this most recent shift is legit, I'm sad to see the "beauty" drained from her origin.

  14. #1349
    Astonishing Member Johnrevenge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    This adequately explains it all! This is worse than Rivera didn't think that was possible.
    Yeah, no. Not even if the current writer could try, she couldn't do worst than Rivera. Rivera's is probably one of the worst runs of the entire story of comics. I wouldn't even recommend it to my worst enemies.

  15. #1350
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    This whole retcon shits on Volume 2 which is what made America popular in the first place.
    That's the weirdest thing to me. I could understand erasing Gabby Rivera's work since it was so panned, but I really didn't think they would just dismiss Gillen's, and Ewing's to a certain extent, work like that. Almost every fan could agree they had the best takes on the character. I wonder what was the thought process there. Did they think that fans would just eat it up because they had a latina writer on it, so people would think of it as more authentic? Funnily enough, looking at the response to this retcon so far, I fail to see any entirely positive reaction. It's been ranging from mixed feelings to people hating it completely. Hate to say it, but I think they might have fumbled their bag again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    Miss Chavez has had more "adjustments" to her character than Jean Grey has died.


    First, she's this out-of-nowhere-Baywatchy-space-babe with a hot temper and a mean right hook that nobody really foresaw becoming the phenomenon she is.

    Then, SURPRISE, she's BACK and she knows Kid Loki and she's got a whole easy-to-cosplay color coded theme and stars are now her BRAND and Billy is her quasi-god and she's from this Wonder Woman-esque Paradise Utopia in spaaaaaaace

    But wait, there's MOAR -- she's ACTUALLY a descendant of a seemingly Hispanic Alien race of Pro Wrestler Women created by Menstrual Magic Forces(?)....

    Ah but you thought that was it didn't you?! Well THE TRUTH IS spoilers:
    ..... science experiment
    end of spoilers
    And all of that in the period of 10 years of existence. And with the MCU coming up, it's hard to tell how much of this characterization will stick. MAC really has just been a case of ''let's make this character up as we go'' for Marvel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    This adequately explains it all! This is worse than Rivera didn't think that was possible.
    It'll be interesting to see how this book will be looked upon in the future. The consensus so far had been that Vasquez had a better voice for America than Rivera, but now that she did THIS, that might as well be everything people will remember the book for, regardless of how well written the issues were. It just sucks that MAC can't catch a break. It's like she can't have a standalone book that doesn't end up being controversial and divisive somehow. Is it too much to ask for a run that everyone can just vibe with?

    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    You know another big plot hole how the mom's were exhibit g specific powers when "Mother" reanimated them in volume 2, I guess you could just say that was mother all along, but that's bland like this whole thing is.
    Yeah, in retrospect, the Mother thing was weird if those were never the identities of her moms.

    And an even bigger plot hole: if the whole thing was fake, who the **** is Madrimar and why this random lady with the exact same powers as America just showed up in her life telling her about her family origins, including that they're both ''Starlings'' as a way to explain their multiverse powers? It's honestly gonna be hilarious if Marvel says the entirety of Rivera's work was just a fever dream America had one day. LMAO

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