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  1. #1981

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    Posted in MCU thread as well. Spoilers for Hawkeye episode 1:

    spoilers:
    I really don't know how I feel about changing Kate's motivation to learn self-defense and archery from her experience as a survivor to generic "I have a dead parent."

    I understand Marvel Studios not wanting to go there, especially if they can't go there with care but at least come up with something other than the most generic superhero motivation in the books.
    end of spoilers
    spoilers:
    It wasn’t just a dead parent though. It was the trauma from her experiencing Loki’s attack on New York. Sure the “dead parent” might be the most obvious angle, but her watching Clint fight and experiencing the destruction were big motivators too
    end of spoilers

  2. #1982
    Astonishing Member Journey's Avatar
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    I do kinda like the set up cause if Kate does meet Kid Loki I would imagine she would feel sometype of way that could be interesting.

  3. #1983
    Astonishing Member gonnagiveittoya's Avatar
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    Was there ever a mention of Kate being Jewish in the comics? Her aunt's apartment has a menorah in it.

  4. #1984
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    How about the fact that her Aunt is Moira Brandon who helped found the West Coast Avengers

  5. #1985
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    I wish Kate was shown with more than just the bow. Maybe a set of Bobbi's battle staves (or just Escrima sticks) for the close work.

  6. #1986
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I wasn't expecting them to completely erase Kate's older sister.

  7. #1987
    Incredible Member Magnito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    I wish Kate was shown with more than just the bow. Maybe a set of Bobbi's battle staves (or just Escrima sticks) for the close work.
    I mean, she's been shown to be a master fencer. So there's that.

  8. #1988

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnito View Post
    I mean, she's been shown to be a master fencer. So there's that.
    And pretty proficient with wine bottles.

  9. #1989
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I wonder if that's setting her up to use more weapons than just the bow.

  10. #1990
    Ultimate Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I wonder if that's setting her up to use more weapons than just the bow.
    The endless array of trophies for her varied and vast proficiency would suggest she can adapt swiftly beyond the bow.

    The bow is simply her favorite.

  11. #1991
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Sooo, I'm finally caught up on everything Young Avengers from this past week. Been meaning to post for days but was just too tired/busy. lol

    On the Hulkling & Wiccan Infinity Comic finale: spoilers:
    it was just as rushed as I expected, but I liked some of the choices made in it. I liked that Agatha wasn't really being a villain and just testing Billy. That's what I suggested that would be the best scenario, so I'm glad they went with that. Although I didn't like the implication that Agatha is not on good terms with Wanda anymore; that was weird. But her being interested in training Billy was a good thing, and I hope we get more of that in the future. I liked when she said that both Billy and Teddy have potential for so much more than they realize. I'm not gonna get my hopes up, but this feels like a great set up for a future story.

    So Billy was responsible for creating the alternative realities that Eidolon and Goebig existed in... I liked the implication that Billy is powerful enough to literally create life. I mean, we already knew that because of the Demiurge stuff, but this is the first time we actually see him doing something like that, so that was interesting. At the same time, it was scary to think that he created those worlds where those two people existed and loved him and Teddy so much, only for them to leave them alone there afterwards like it was nothing. I thought maybe they'd been just erased from reality when things went back to normal, but the final panels showing the two of them just alone after B&T left kinda implied they still existed, and were just left traumatized and heartbroken. Honestly, that was kinda dark and I'm not sure how to feel about Billy using his powers like this. One one hand, it does lead to interesting stories about him and his ''godhood'' as the Demiurge, but on the other hand, if it's just a plot point that's introduced and then dropped and not talked about ever again, with Billy not having to face any sort of accountability for his actions, I can't help but feel like it's a waste and just makes him look bad. We really need someone to write a story that goes in depth about Billy's powers and the consequences/responsibilities that come with it instead of just using it as a quirky plot point.

    And lastly, I loved Teddy saying they should split their time between Earth and space. Honestly, I think that's the most relevant thing to come out of this whole book, because it's what I've been saying for over a year now: they need Earth-based stories too if they're gonna remain relevant. And it's easy to explain stuff like why Billy just randomly showed up on Trial Of Magneto if you have them going back and forth as a status quo. It'll be better for both of them in the long run to be able to do both instead of just being stuck in one place. More story options. More books for them to appear.
    end of spoilers

    Overall, yeah, it was a pretty unremarkable comic, but it did introduce concepts that I hope will be explored in the near future.

    On the Hawkeye premiere and Kate's debut in the MCU: I'm satisfied. I think it lined up with my expectations pretty well. At this point I'm just accepting that MCU YA is not going to be like the comics, so I'm adjusting my expectations accordingly. I think her MCU origin is pretty good. I like the sexual assault survivor origin from the comics, but I have to admit that even the comics have ignored that so much over the years, that I think the MCU change doesn't feel that bad. Anyway, that opening scene was really good. spoilers:
    And you could tell they switched the roles of Derek and Eleanor from Young Avengers, with Derek being the kinder parent who died and Eleanor being the stricter parent who lived. I'm not complaining, though, because at least it gave us Vera Farmiga as her mom, and there's nothing bad about that. I wonder if that means Derek might come back as a vampire later on, btw. :P

    And Kate being a college student was actually pretty cool to see. What I love about the MCU is that it's a lot more realistic than the comics when it comes to characters having careers and such, so I'm actually pretty excited to see the Young Avengers actually graduating and having an education. It will be interesting to see what the other members' scholar interests are. Speaking of which, I don't think we even learned what was Kate's major, did we? Her mom mentioned her working on Bishop Security after she graduates... so I can only imagine it's some business related major.

    I like that her fangirlness didn't come off as annoying or over the top. When it was described that she was ''obsessed with Hawkeye'' before the show premiered I know a lot of people were worried, but I think the actual show treats that in a very balanced way, with Kate coming off as a very independent and individual person. You can tell that Hailee's performance really stands out and she's pretty much the driving force behind the show, sometimes even more than Clint himself, so that's good. It shows they're not making her so overly dependent on his character. And yeah, I'm glad that they kept her background as a prodigal girl, with multiple talents and trophies. That fencing scene on episode 2 was AMAZING, and I love that the whole concept was taken straight from the YA comics.

    Also, I couldn't help but notice that MCU Kate is kind of a tomboy (specially with the whole dressing with a suit instead of the dress her mom asked her to wear), which is pretty different from the more feminine and fashionable Kate from the comics. Allan Heinberg's original notes for Young Avengers DID mention he wanted Kate to be more of a tomboy initially, so I wonder if that's what inspired this decision or if it was just a coincidence.
    end of spoilers

    There's some tweaks here and there, but overall, Hailee's Kate Bishop feels very much like the Kate I know and love from the comics, so like I said, I'm pretty satisfied so far, and looking forward to see where they take her in the future!

    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    I do kinda like the set up cause if Kate does meet Kid Loki I would imagine she would feel sometype of way that could be interesting.
    That is actually a pretty interesting concept to explore, but since the Loki show kinda butchered the Kid Loki concept, I'm not sure it would hit the same if the Kid Loki she meets is THAT Kid Loki.

    Quote Originally Posted by gonnagiveittoya View Post
    Was there ever a mention of Kate being Jewish in the comics? Her aunt's apartment has a menorah in it.
    She never had any religion established in the comics, but Hailee Steinfeld has jewish roots, so it's possible they added that detail in the show because of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    I wish Kate was shown with more than just the bow. Maybe a set of Bobbi's battle staves (or just Escrima sticks) for the close work.
    I'm not sure if there is a known Bobbi Morse in the proper MCU for her to even use any of her equipment. I feel like it would make more sense for Kate to use something of Nat's at some point, and I actually think that might be possible once Yelena comes in. I thought the fencing scene on episode two was a pretty good showcase of her swordsmanship, though. The show is just two episodes in, so they'll have plenty of time to show more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I wasn't expecting them to completely erase Kate's older sister.
    I mean... I guess they could say she exists and was just not mentioned/shown so far. But considering how little Susan appeared over the years, it's not exactly shocking if she's not there. The same will probably happen to Eli's and Billy's siblings. I mean, the comics themselves don't acknowledge Eli has siblings from the Truth series and Billy's brothers have been non-existent ever since their one time mention forever ago, so I don't really blame the MCU for not prioritizing what is, unfortunately, an irrelevant part of their lore.

    The reason why I wanted Susan in the MCU was mostly because her wedding is obviously of VERY importance to the origin of the Young Avengers, but looking at what the show established, it's possible that spoilers:
    THE wedding might just end up being between Eleanor and Jack.
    end of spoilers I wouldn't mind if they changed that detail; but I really hope A wedding will be there when the Young Avengers make their MCU debut. I think it would be a really special homage to the comics, even if it's a little different.
    Last edited by Drops Of Venus; 11-29-2021 at 02:28 AM.

  12. #1992
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    Sooo, I'm finally caught up on everything Young Avengers from this past week. Been meaning to post for days but was just too tired/busy. lolOn the Hawkeye premiere and Kate's debut in the MCU: I'm satisfied. I think it lined up with my expectations pretty well. At this point I'm just accepting that MCU YA is not going to be like the comics, so I'm adjusting my expectations accordingly. I think her MCU origin is pretty good. I like the sexual assault survivor origin from the comics, but I have to admit that even the comics have ignored that so much over the years, that I think the MCU change doesn't feel that bad. Anyway, that opening scene was really good. spoilers:
    And you could tell they switched the roles of Derek and Eleanor from Young Avengers, with Derek being the kinder parent who died and Eleanor being the stricter parent who lived. I'm not complaining, though, because at least it gave us Vera Farmiga as her mom, and there's nothing bad about that. I wonder if that means Derek might come back as a vampire later on, btw. :P

    And Kate being a college student was actually pretty cool to see. What I love about the MCU is that it's a lot more realistic than the comics when it comes to characters having careers and such, so I'm actually pretty excited to see the Young Avengers actually graduating and having an education. It will be interesting to see what the other members' scholar interests are. Speaking of which, I don't think we even learned what was Kate's major, did we? Her mom mentioned her working on Bishop Security after she graduates... so I can only imagine it's some business related major.

    I like that her fangirlness didn't come off as annoying or over the top. When it was described that she was ''obsessed with Hawkeye'' before the show premiered I know a lot of people were worried, but I think the actual show treats that in a very balanced way, with Kate coming off as a very independent and individual person. You can tell that Hailee's performance really stands out and she's pretty much the driving force behind the show, sometimes even more than Clint himself, so that's good. It shows they're not making her so overly dependent on his character. And yeah, I'm glad that they kept her background as a prodigal girl, with multiple talents and trophies. That fencing scene on episode 2 was AMAZING, and I love that the whole concept was taken straight from the YA comics.

    Also, I couldn't help but notice that MCU Kate is kind of a tomboy (specially with the whole dressing with a suit instead of the dress her mom asked her to wear), which is pretty different from the more feminine and fashionable Kate from the comics. Allan Heinberg's original notes for Young Avengers DID mention he wanted Kate to be more of a tomboy initially, so I wonder if that's what inspired this decision or if it was just a coincidence.
    end of spoilers

    There's some tweaks here and there, but overall, Hailee's Kate Bishop feels very much like the Kate I know and love from the comics, so like I said, I'm pretty satisfied so far, and looking forward to see where they take her in the future!
    spoilers:
    I think she wore the suit less because she was a tomboy and more out of silent protest for finding out about her mom and Swordsman.

    I appreciated how much they toned down the "best Hawkeye" aspect and made Kate come off more humble and respectful, while still independent and being a go-getter who doesn't take no for an answer.
    end of spoilers

  13. #1993
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnito View Post
    I mean, she's been shown to be a master fencer. So there's that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    I'm not sure if there is a known Bobbi Morse in the proper MCU for her to even use any of her equipment. I feel like it would make more sense for Kate to use something of Nat's at some point, and I actually think that might be possible once Yelena comes in. I thought the fencing scene on episode two was a pretty good showcase of her swordsmanship, though. The show is just two episodes in, so they'll have plenty of time to show more.
    I am talking more in the comics side...yes the show is showing that she is proficient in a lot of weapons...but in the comics she has become something of a one trick pony with the bow.

  14. #1994
    Astonishing Member gonnagiveittoya's Avatar
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  15. #1995
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonnagiveittoya View Post
    She looks...oddly cuter than I expected. Which feels weird to say about America.

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