Young Avengers Appreciation - 2021

[Fokken]

How do we feel about the ending for Billy & Teddy's comic? Overall I have to say I really enjoyed it, I found Agatha's reasoning a tad convoluted though, Billy & Teddy especially Billy really just said "**** Goebig & Eidolon" lowkey I feel bad lmao, I find it morally a tad f*cked up cause it means Billy either created both of them just to abandon 1 & steal Teddy back from the other or he hijacked their lives & just dipped leaving them depressed kinda f*cked up but it fits Billy's character I can't even lie.

Not into it. This falls into "not canon" along with Death's Head, for me.
This "oops I bent reality because I have feelings" narrative is tired.

[Journey]

Not into it. This falls into "not canon" along with Death's Head, for me.
This "oops I bent reality because I have feelings" narrative is tired.

Oop I liked Deaths Head too lmao maybe I'm just easily pleased.

[Fokken]

Oop I liked Deaths Head too lmao maybe I'm just easily pleased.

Hey Journey, there's nothing wrong with that at all! Enjoy what you enjoy buddy! This particular blip in the Billy/Teddy narrative just wasn't for me.

[Journey]

Hey Journey, there's nothing wrong with that at all! Enjoy what you enjoy buddy! This particular blip in the Billy/Teddy narrative just wasn't for me.

And that's perfectly ok I could see why this wouldn't hit for some storywise it was all over the place art carried it a lot.

[Fokken]

There is just a bunch of stuff that didn't land for me.

The dinner party with Queers of Krakoa.
Billy having unrealistic expectations and/or insecurities regarding Teddy's reign as Emperor.
The.... video game angle and Agatha's wonky sideways motivation(?)

The art did have its charms though.
Knowing what other writers have in mind for what they would LIKE to do, and how epic and moving it sounds, really soured me to this being the first "mini series" for them, post Empyre.

[Journey]

There is just a bunch of stuff that didn't land for me.

The dinner party with Queers of Krakoa.
Billy having unrealistic expectations and/or insecurities regarding Teddy's reign as Emperor.
The.... video game angle and Agatha's wonky sideways motivation(?)

The art did have its charms though.
Knowing what other writers have in mind for what they would LIKE to do, and how epic and moving it sounds, really soured me to this being the first "mini series" for them, post Empyre.

I get that I too feel it makes no sense for Billy & Teddy to be kiking with X-Men specially post trial. The Video Game angle didn't really add up to much, & I feel for their next series it should focus on something outside of their relationship, Agatha mentioned their both capable of much more lets see it, Teddy has progressed but I feel Billy's destiny is on standby mostly because when the Demiurge thing does happen he'll probably become unusable for a time being.

[Sutekh]

Teddy has progressed but I feel Billy's destiny is on standby mostly because when the Demiurge thing does happen he'll probably become unusable for a time being.

Honestly, I want him to go *past* the Demiurge thing. Have the big crunch, and Billy uses his power to create the new universe (as Franklin did most recently, pretty much drinking his milkshake right up, IMO) and then be forced by circumstances to actually *learn some ****ing magic* rather than lean on his reality manipulation 'whatever the writer wants' crap.

Give him a list of magical effects, like using the Winds of Watoomb to fly and throw people around, calling on the Thunder of Thor to throw zaps, Vapors of Valtorr to conjure mists, Images of Ikonn to create illusions, etc. and evolve past the narratively annoying (can do whatever I want, as long as it doesn't mess with the plot, then I totally mysteriously can't, even if I did the exact same thing last issue, for no darn reason...) reality manipulation stuff.

[Journey]

Honestly, I want him to go *past* the Demiurge thing. Have the big crunch, and Billy uses his power to create the new universe (as Franklin did most recently, pretty much drinking his milkshake right up, IMO) and then be forced by circumstances to actually *learn some ****ing magic* rather than lean on his reality manipulation 'whatever the writer wants' crap.

Give him a list of magical effects, like using the Winds of Watoomb to fly and throw people around, calling on the Thunder of Thor to throw zaps, Vapors of Valtorr to conjure mists, Images of Ikonn to create illusions, etc. and evolve past the narratively annoying (can do whatever I want, as long as it doesn't mess with the plot, then I totally mysteriously can't, even if I did the exact same thing last issue, for no darn reason...) reality manipulation stuff.

I actually would hate that ironically, the thing I love about Billy is his powerset isn't traditional magic, & if his destiny is to completely change the rules I feel it would be kinda dumb to limit him like that. Like Billy isn't the basic magic user he makes his own magic I kinda love that don't want it to change.

[Drops Of Venus]

I haven't read the last issue yet, but I will give my thoughts once I do.

Is Swordsman Kate's dad here?

I've been wondering this for a while, and looking at this scene... it definitely comes off as him possibly being her dad in the MCU. That would definitely be one big change. This is gonna sound weird, but if it's the case... I'm actually going to miss Derek Bishop. I spent so long thinking about how Kate's dynamic with him would be in the MCU, so it's kinda shocking to think he might not even be there. Unless they just mesh Swordsman and Derek into a single character? That's the kinda thing the MCU would do.

Billy and Tommy over in Trial of Magneto preview image courtesy of X-Men Monday on Adventures in Poor Taste

Well... at least they look good.

I need this haircut gone his face is too beautiful for this!

I actually like Werneck's interpretation of the sidecut. It's one of the most flattering ones. I specially like how flowy it looks on the top.

[Noek]

Honestly, I want him to go *past* the Demiurge thing. Have the big crunch, and Billy uses his power to create the new universe (as Franklin did most recently, pretty much drinking his milkshake right up, IMO) and then be forced by circumstances to actually *learn some ****ing magic* rather than lean on his reality manipulation 'whatever the writer wants' crap.

Give him a list of magical effects, like using the Winds of Watoomb to fly and throw people around, calling on the Thunder of Thor to throw zaps, Vapors of Valtorr to conjure mists, Images of Ikonn to create illusions, etc. and evolve past the narratively annoying (can do whatever I want, as long as it doesn't mess with the plot, then I totally mysteriously can't, even if I did the exact same thing last issue, for no darn reason...) reality manipulation stuff.

I've thought it would be interesting to see him have magic tie-in with Judaic lore. We have seen characters like Dr. Voodo and Dr. Druid do things like this, as well have confirmed Abrahamic religions being real in the Marvel universe seeing the Archangels. He could have something like "Samson gift" as an enchantment where the persons strength increases but only until their glowing hair fades.

[Sutekh]

I've thought it would be interesting to see him have magic tie-in with Judaic lore. We have seen characters like Dr. Voodo and Dr. Druid do things like this, as well have confirmed Abrahamic religions being real in the Marvel universe seeing the Archangels. He could have something like "Samson gift" as an enchantment where the persons strength increases but only until their glowing hair fades.

It's certainly not something we've seen much of before, Hebrew style magic all about names and gematogriphichal stuff (I may have made that word up, something about letters having a numeric quality, and names therefore having a mathematical value?).

That said, I feel like Billy's Judaic ties have barely been acknowledged, and he seems as likely to explore magic based on Norse runes or Asatru beliefs (based on his earlier identification with Thor as 'the Asgardian'). Hence my idea for an invocation that taps into the 'Thunder of Thor,' that serves to throw lightning zaps like he used to in his first appearance, based on the sort of invocations that Dr. Strange uses with the Crimson Bands of Cytorrak, but tapping into Thor, rather than Cytorrak (and making it both a unique individual sort of invocation, not one of Dr. Strange's old stand-bys or hand-me-downs, and also one that connects him to another Marvel entity, Thor himself, who, if the invocation works similarly to the ones for Cytorrak, Ikonn, Watoomb, etc. Thor himself would be *aware* of, but not necessarily actively affected by, which could create an interesting situation later where Billy runs into Thor himself who notes "I hear everytime you call upon my thunder, and so far I approve of the uses to which you've put it.').

It would be nice, in any event, to have a set of spells or rotes or invocations with some clear definition (even if we readers weren't privy to them), so that one writer couldn't have Billy teleporting himself and others around willy-nilly, and the next week another writer has him unable to teleport at all for plot reasons.

I kinda hate that inconsistency. "Oh, he can do anything! Except that. Or this other thing. He has a headache? He's tired? He's used up all of his power doing some relatively trivial thing that a dozen other superheroes could have done, despite having the power to *create universes*? He's just a selfish jerk and despite being able to say 'No More Cancer' or 'No More Hunger' or 'No More Racism' he doesn't *want* to use his powers to help people?"

[Waking Replica]

Well, today's the day! Kate's officially making her MCU debut! Am going to watch the episodes later today, so fingers crossed they do our girl justice!

[Batman Begins 2005]

Well, today's the day! Kate's officially making her MCU debut! Am going to watch the episodes later today, so fingers crossed they do our girl justice!

I only know a little about the Kate Bishop character but I will say she's the best thing about the show. By far.

[Fokken]

It's certainly not something we've seen much of before, Hebrew style magic all about names and gematogriphichal stuff (I may have made that word up, something about letters having a numeric quality, and names therefore having a mathematical value?).

That said, I feel like Billy's Judaic ties have barely been acknowledged, and he seems as likely to explore magic based on Norse runes or Asatru beliefs (based on his earlier identification with Thor as 'the Asgardian'). Hence my idea for an invocation that taps into the 'Thunder of Thor,' that serves to throw lightning zaps like he used to in his first appearance, based on the sort of invocations that Dr. Strange uses with the Crimson Bands of Cytorrak, but tapping into Thor, rather than Cytorrak (and making it both a unique individual sort of invocation, not one of Dr. Strange's old stand-bys or hand-me-downs, and also one that connects him to another Marvel entity, Thor himself, who, if the invocation works similarly to the ones for Cytorrak, Ikonn, Watoomb, etc. Thor himself would be *aware* of, but not necessarily actively affected by, which could create an interesting situation later where Billy runs into Thor himself who notes "I hear everytime you call upon my thunder, and so far I approve of the uses to which you've put it.').

It would be nice, in any event, to have a set of spells or rotes or invocations with some clear definition (even if we readers weren't privy to them), so that one writer couldn't have Billy teleporting himself and others around willy-nilly, and the next week another writer has him unable to teleport at all for plot reasons.

I kinda hate that inconsistency. "Oh, he can do anything! Except that. Or this other thing. He has a headache? He's tired? He's used up all of his power doing some relatively trivial thing that a dozen other superheroes could have done, despite having the power to *create universes*? He's just a selfish jerk and despite being able to say 'No More Cancer' or 'No More Hunger' or 'No More Racism' he doesn't *want* to use his powers to help people?"

Enthusiastically agreeing with all of this right here, per usual

[Kingdom X]

Posted in MCU thread as well. Spoilers for Hawkeye episode 1:

spoilers:

I really don't know how I feel about changing Kate's motivation to learn self-defense and archery from her experience as a survivor to generic "I have a dead parent." I understand Marvel Studios not wanting to go there, especially if they can't go there with care but at least come up with something other than the most generic superhero motivation in the books.

end of spoilers