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  1. #1126
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    I was gonna bring that up on my previous post while talking about Eli but forgot: one thing that I found fascinating about the latest TFATWS episode was that spoilers:
    Isaiah came off as being VERY anti-nationalist and anti-patriotic, to the point where he didn't even want Sam to take the shield out of its case because the mere sight of the ''stars and stripes'' offended him.
    end of spoilers So that begs the question: how would Isaiah feel about Eli becoming Patriot, wearing those same stars and stripes as a symbol? That could definitely make for some interesting family drama.

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    Haven’t we dated Doom twice already with white actors from the previous films
    Yeah, but I think people are much more aware about romani representation after the MCU and the many discussions had about the whitewashing of the Maximoffs, so all eyes are on them now and their Doctor Doom casting, who is the other most relevant romani character Marvel has. They are definitely gonna strike a nerve if they go with a white actor again when they have the opportunity to actually represent a romani character for the first time in the MCU.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Idk. Many religions have problematic and/or outdated beliefs and I don't think Marvel may want to go there.
    That's true, but comics are known to be progressive, so I don't think that's really an issue. I could argue about how christianity and islam also have problematic/outdated beliefs, but that never made Daredevil or Ms. Marvel be problematic. Not every religious person is the same, and as far as Marvel is concerned, religious heroes are always portrayed as representing the best and most positive aspects of their religions. You won't ever see Matt Murdock or Kamala Khan going around telling people that being queer is a sin, because they know that wouldn't sit well with many people.
    Last edited by Drops Of Venus; 04-17-2021 at 11:56 PM.

  2. #1127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    I was gonna bring that up on my previous post while talking about Eli but forgot: one thing that I found fascinating about the latest TFATWS episode was that spoilers:
    Isaiah came off as being VERY anti-nationalist and anti-patriotic, to the point where he didn't even want Sam to take the shield out of its case because the mere sight of the ''stars and stripes'' offended him.
    end of spoilers So that begs the question: how would Isaiah feel about Eli becoming Patriot, wearing those same stars and stripes as a symbol? That could definitely make for some interesting family drama.
    Maybe Eli won't pick the name Patriot. The idea of patriotism has been co-opted by bigots and fanatics, but maybe he'd try to change that image.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    Yeah, but I think people are much more aware about romani representation after the MCU and the many discussions had about the whitewashing of the Maximoffs, so all eyes are on them now and their Doctor Doom casting, who is the other most relevant romani character Marvel has. They are definitely gonna strike a nerve if they go with a white actor again when they have the opportunity to actually represent a romani character for the first time in the MCU.



    That's true, but comics are known to be progressive, so I don't think that's really an issue. I could argue about how christianity and islam also have problematic/outdated beliefs, but that never made Daredevil or Ms. Marvel be problematic. Not every religious person is the same, and as far as Marvel is concerned, religious heroes are always portrayed as representing the best and most positive aspects of their religions. You won't ever see Matt Murdock or Kamala Khan going around telling people that being queer is a sin, because they know that wouldn't sit well with many people.
    That's true. I just wonder how they reconcile being part of a faith which has those beliefs. Is it a "pick and choose" thing?

  3. #1128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    I was gonna bring that up on my previous post while talking about Eli but forgot: one thing that I found fascinating about the latest TFATWS episode was that spoilers:
    Isaiah came off as being VERY anti-nationalist and anti-patriotic, to the point where he didn't even want Sam to take the shield out of its case because the mere sight of the ''stars and stripes'' offended him.
    end of spoilers So that begs the question: how would Isaiah feel about Eli becoming Patriot, wearing those same stars and stripes as a symbol? That could definitely make for some interesting family drama.
    And what are this feelings on people like Rhodey, Sam, Maria and Monica Rambeau, and Lemar....people who served their countries with Honor and distinction? In Lemar's case giving his life in service to his country.

  4. #1129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    And what are this feelings on people like Rhodey, Sam, Maria and Monica Rambeau, and Lemar....people who served their countries with Honor and distinction? In Lemar's case giving his life in service to his country.
    It's possible he feels they wasted their efforts.

  5. #1130
    Fantastic Member Waking Replica's Avatar
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    Jim posted art of the OG4 team with winged headband and a Teddy nose piercing!! I'm betting this is either a part of variant for the Pride issue for Billy and Teddy's story OR it's part of the story with them reminiscing about their past, cause I can see another polaroid to the side wih Billy's second headband!

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CNyrv56j...=1g0s6wczip9og

  6. #1131

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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    Their comic characters are white, the actress/actors who play them are white. The issue is Wanda & Pietro's comic heritage is so fucked up that it's hard to know where there from or their actual ethnicity. They're supposedly half-Romani, due to a retcon which means they have a small amount of flavor. So the argument is that they should’ve casted people with Romani or Indian heritage. The thing is that their complexion is Caucasian, it’s always been that way. If they had given them a darker complexion in the comics then I’d understand the issue. I personally think these whitewashing allegations are stupid, especially since they retconned the characters into people who lived in a Western European country, but in actuality that just feeds into the issue. They were white originally and because someone decided to retcon them after their creation people think that should have changed even though it never did in the comics the outrage is stupid & impractical.
    There isn't a single Romani character in comics colored darker than beige. And that's more of the problem. Considering most Romani are not white look. This likely has to do with severe ignorance of who Romani are. What comics has done with Romani characters is not good validation for what movies have done. Both have done a terrible job here. Ignorance begot ignorance.

    They were also retconned ten years into their history, but had hardly any established origin before that. Them being Whizzer's kids also didn't stick. Because he and Miss America were American so that didn't make sense. So most of their history with an established origin has them as Romani.

    Also, half Romani still makes one Romani. But I'm heavily suspicious of every character in comics being half. That's very rare. And non-existent for European Romani.

    There's only like what four actual Romani characters in comics. And everyone is trying to skirt around things to make them not Romani. We deserve heroes too. And until comics gets better at rep this is all we have in this medium. It's not perfect, but their heritage should not be excused away until we get better rep.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  7. #1132
    Astonishing Member Journey's Avatar
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    Wanda & Pietro are the equivalent to Rachel Dolezal got a little flavor somewhere in those genes heavily repressed so they can claim romani but in every way that matters they are white.

  8. #1133
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    There isn't a single Romani character in comics colored darker than beige. And that's more of the problem. Considering most Romani are not white look. This likely has to do with severe ignorance of who Romani are. What comics has done with Romani characters is not good validation for what movies have done. Both have done a terrible job here. Ignorance begot ignorance.

    They were also retconned ten years into their history, but had hardly any established origin before that. Them being Whizzer's kids also didn't stick. Because he and Miss America were American so that didn't make sense. So most of their history with an established origin has them as Romani.

    Also, half Romani still makes one Romani. But I'm heavily suspicious of every character in comics being half. That's very rare. And non-existent for European Romani.

    There's only like what four actual Romani characters in comics. And everyone is trying to skirt around things to make them not Romani. We deserve heroes too. And until comics gets better at rep this is all we have in this medium. It's not perfect, but their heritage should not be excused away until we get better rep.
    Exactly. This is why people get outraged. Because these things are considered expendable by the people in power

  9. #1134
    ᱬ Master Of Chaos ᱬ Cruelrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    Wanda & Pietro are the equivalent to Rachel Dolezal got a little flavor somewhere in those genes heavily repressed so they can claim romani but in every way that matters they are white.
    not even that if Wanda is being drawn as a white woman the 97% of her comic career...

    I think the writers just didn't care or only a few did sadly
    Check out my (616) Scarlet Witch Respect Thread:


  10. #1135

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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    Wanda & Pietro are the equivalent to Rachel Dolezal got a little flavor somewhere in those genes heavily repressed so they can claim romani but in every way that matters they are white.
    They would be if they weren't also born to a Romani family. Even in the Mags retcon Magda was Sinti. It's not a problem with the characters. It's a problem with white writers and artists not knowing who Romani people are.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  11. #1136
    Astonishing Member Journey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    They would be if they weren't also born to a Romani family. Even in the Mags retcon Magda was Sinti. It's not a problem with the characters. It's a problem with white writers and artists not knowing who Romani people are.
    Either way it's too late to change now so back to my original point the allegation and the fake outrage that comes with it is tedious.

  12. #1137
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    More evidence found that the twins will be in Doctor Strange In The Multiverse Of Madness: https://thedirect.com/article/doctor...-filming-scene

    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Maybe Eli won't pick the name Patriot. The idea of patriotism has been co-opted by bigots and fanatics, but maybe he'd try to change that image.
    I've discussed this a few times here in this thread, and how I could see Eli taking on a new identity that feels less ''pledging allegiance'', and now with how Isaiah has been portrayed in the MCU, I could actually see him going down that path, at least in that universe. Or maybe they'll just make him go by Patriot precisely to stir drama between the Bradleys. It'll be interesting to see what they do either way.

    That's true. I just wonder how they reconcile being part of a faith which has those beliefs. Is it a "pick and choose" thing?
    Pretty much. It's not very different from how people practice religion in real life. Many people don't live by literally all of the rules of their religion, specially in recent times. Religion is something that has become really flexible for younger generations, despite pushback from the older ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    And what are this feelings on people like Rhodey, Sam, Maria and Monica Rambeau, and Lemar....people who served their countries with Honor and distinction? In Lemar's case giving his life in service to his country.
    It's very interesting to think about all this, because this Isaiah is quite different from the comics. He doesn't have the same relationship with black heroes like in the source material, where he is an icon to the black community. In the MCU, he is essentially a nobody. It would be interesting to see how different black heroes react to him, and vice-versa.

    Another big difference is that this Isaiah is much more of a character in present time than 616 Isaiah is, since he can actually communicate, express his thoughts and feelings, etc. Comic book Isaiah had his mind deteriorated with time and barely had agency as an old man, so you get to explore much more of him this way. I'm excited to see where they take him and his family next.

    Quote Originally Posted by Waking Replica View Post
    Jim posted art of the OG4 team with winged headband and a Teddy nose piercing!! I'm betting this is either a part of variant for the Pride issue for Billy and Teddy's story OR it's part of the story with them reminiscing about their past, cause I can see another polaroid to the side wih Billy's second headband!

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CNyrv56j...=1g0s6wczip9og
    My first thought was that it was for Marvel Pride too, since we know for sure Cheung is doing interiors for that. I was hoping that story was going to turn out to be a flashback to how Billy and Teddy met each other for the first time and became a couple, since we shockingly never got that. I think it would be cool if they used that flashback trope where they are seeing different photographs, and each photograph flashbacks to that moment in the past, showing us what happened. Anyway, it's good to see the Founding Four again, even if just briefly. <3
    Last edited by Drops Of Venus; 04-18-2021 at 11:59 AM.

  13. #1138
    Astonishing Member Journey's Avatar
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    I feel like the MCU is the perfect opportunity to give Eli a full rebrand & I'm down for whatever they do.

  14. #1139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    I feel like the MCU is the perfect opportunity to give Eli a full rebrand & I'm down for whatever they do.
    Not sure what you mean

  15. #1140

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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    Either way it's too late to change now so back to my original point the allegation and the fake outrage that comes with it is tedious.
    There is some fake outrage out of that, but not all of it is. And it's never too late for Marvel to learn the lessons of how they've depicted certain groups of people.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

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