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  1. #76
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waking Replica View Post
    I said this before, but if they're gonna put thematic distance between Wanda and the twins, it might be some for of partial memory wipe on either party. Wiping Wanda's memory post WV and having the twins search for her gets them their YA: Presents and partially Children's Crusade storyline, while wiping them gets something akin to the reincarnation stuff, seeing as they'll basically be blank slates.

    That being said, I'm guessing they don't want to overcomplicate it, so maybe Wanda just goes missing and they're left stranded in the real world.
    I definitely think memory wiping might be involved, maybe even at both sides. My only issue is that if you just wipe their memories and keep them as the same teenagers from the show, then you make it impossible for them to be the Wiccan and Speed that we know from the comics, because they won't have that experience of growing up away from Wanda and Vision. Unless you make it so that they have fake memories about having an entire other life... but I don't know if I really like this idea, specially if it involves the Kaplan family, 'cause then you create a scenario in which Billy's jewish family is supposed to be ''fake'' while his ''real family'' is the non-jewish one, which doesn't sit right with me and definitely won't sit right with many people. MCU Wanda gets enough shit for being whitewashed, and I really don't want Marvel to be dumb enough to make an entire section of the fandom hate on MCU Billy for similar problematic reasons. Someone pointed out that the showrunner of WandaVision is jewish, so hopefully she'll leave things in a place where Billy's judaism can be adapted and respected in the future.

    The only way I could see them doing the memory wipe thing WHILE respecting the Wiccan/Speed origin from the comics is... the twins Wanda created on WandaVision end up dying/erased, Wanda gets her memories about them wiped ''for her own good'' (mirroring what happened in the comics), and the Billy/Tommy that we see going forward are from another timeline where the twins never died, but ended up being saved while they were still babies by Doctor Strange or whatever and given to two other families to raise them. This timeline ends up connected to the main MCU after Multiverse Of Madness through some sort of soft-reboot of the universe or something, and boom, that's how you get Wiccan/Speed for the Young Avengers. This way, you keep them connected to Wanda as her biological children who will one day want to know more about her, but you also keep them as the Billy Kaplan/Tommy Shepherd that we care about in the comics. I know a lot of people like the idea of letting Wiccan and Speed just be Billy/Tommy Maximoff and sort of create this perfect superhero family that we never got to have in the comics... but I prefer not to take my chances, because there is a real chance Marvel could mess them up and turn them into unrecognizable characters if they diverge so much from their comics origins. If the Billy and Tommy on WandaVision are not what we expected... do we really want to be stuck with them forever? I prefer if they leave a way for them to be soft-rebooted if possible.

    Anyway, did anyone read this article on WV?

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...re-wandavision

    In it, they mention CC, but...



    I don't know how the hell they read CC and thought Cassie was the one that jumpstarts the search/storyline. I know it's probably written by someone who doesn't read comics and is basing importance off of the MCU, but... it made me think of the very real possibility in order to get the YA into movies, they'll not only downplay Billy and Teddy, but also take their storylines and hand them off to other characters, like that little blurb accidentally did, so they can say it's close to source material, but not have to give gay characters some shine on the big screen.
    It was a very weird way to describe TCC indeed, but I think it's possible they only wrote it like that to be MCU-friendly, since Cassie is the only Young Avenger who's been introduced in the MCU so far, so non-comic readers would have a sense of familiarity by reading their short description. Anyway, I wouldn't worry too much about it, because it's not like it's something that was written by Marvel themselves. I doubt the writer of this knows anything about what Marvel plans to do with the Young Avengers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    The only way this could work for me is if the spell/effect picked two kids/teens that were in comas and brain-dead and revived them with the new spirits in them. Basically re-homing the wayward souls in some 'empty vessels' and giving them another shot at life.

    Presumably the 'rewrite' would also sort of conveniently swap their names around and mess with the memories of their parents and friends and make them always think they'd been named Billy and Tommy (since it would be ridiculously likely that there'd be two kids about the right age with those names lying in comas at the right time...).

    The whole thing could be handled in a single scene of some grieving parents receiving the notification from their doctor that their son wasn't going to recover and showed no signs of brain activity, and that they now just had to make the decision to discontinue life support, while in the room there's a magic swirly and the teen's eyes suddenly open and he gasps, and the doctor rushes in and the family are all overjoyed and just as they are all rushing in the energy swirly happens around the doctors clipboard and on a sheet on the foot of the bed where we see a nametag change from 'Aaron' or something to 'William' and the mother stutters when saying her son's name and says Billy instead, looking confused, as if she thought for a second he was named something else...

    So, the souls live on, but they aren't 'replacing' or supplanting anyone. (If anything, the parents are getting a second chance, as they were losing their sons. Although that might not be as big a deal for Tommy's parents, who don't seem to be as involved in his life...)
    See, this is what I don't like. 'Cause you are still indirectly saying that Wanda was responsible for rewriting the lives of not only two people, but two entire families without their consent or knowledge, like.... it's just problematic and creepy no matter how you spin it. And like, what else changed about them? If they got brand new powers, new looks, new names... then who's to say their personalities or free will didn't change? Because a change of souls is essentially a personality transplant. Like Betsy on Kwannon's body. It wasn't the same person, and it took Marvel long enough to realize how wrong that was. The original body being ''dead'' doesn't exclude the lack of consent narrative here, and that's the real issue. It doesn't feel right to me. I would never be able to look at Billy and Tommy the same way if they reveal that they are basically two demon/magic souls walking around in two dead bodies that don't belong to them. That accomplishes nothing but ruin the characters and all the relationships they've built over the years. Do we really want discourse about Billy/Teddy being potential rapists like it's happening with Wonder Woman? 'Cause I sure don't.
    Last edited by Drops Of Venus; 01-10-2021 at 05:13 AM.

  2. #77
    Astonishing Member Journey's Avatar
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    I mean when you think about it comic Billy & Tommy are literal demon spawn it's just not heavily addressed, how Mephisto has yet to fuck with them in any form yet is a mystery for the ages.

  3. #78
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    I mean when you think about it comic Billy & Tommy are literal demon spawn it's just not heavily addressed, how Mephisto has yet to fuck with them in any form yet is a mystery for the ages.
    The demon part is not my issue here, but the origin of their physical body. Between them being reincarnated from conception vs them possessing the bodies of two unrelated people and taking over their lives... I just think the first option is better.

  4. #79
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    being potential rapists like it's happening with Wonder Woman? 'Cause I sure don't.
    WTF? Diana, a rapist? Where the hell did that suggestion come from?
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  5. #80
    Fantastic Member Waking Replica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    WTF? Diana, a rapist? Where the hell did that suggestion come from?
    Some people have a gripe with the way the narrative brought back Steve Trevor. In ww84 (spoilers btw):

    spoilers:
    After wishing on some magic object, Steve is brought back by inserting his soul into someone else's body. The problem comes with many pointing out Diana had sex with someone who was obviously not consenting, at least technically speaking, given someone else was controlling his body. The discourse is that, while unintentional, the story never addresses consent and that Diana knowingly sleeps with someone who can't give it.
    end of spoilers

    I think, best case scenario, Wanda warps reality to create new lives for them by the end. Maybe she does something so bad she wants them to not be associated with her, so instead of pulling a "no, more mutants" at the end like many propose to get the mutants in, she uses her juiced up powers to create new lives for her kids instead. That way, you can circumvent any possession/consent issues since it's them and not other bodies, you can separate them to put distance, and you can still have Jewish Billy, albeit through "adoption" rather than ethnically, which I think, should they not state Wanda being Jewish, is the best we're gonna get. She sends them off to two couples who never actually had kids (well, Jeff and Rebecca had Billy's little brothers, but like everyone knows, they've been MIA for years so who knows) so no one's body is possessed, and you can even say that they've been trying for kids as well, so that there's even less to whine about.
    Last edited by Waking Replica; 01-10-2021 at 07:56 AM.

  6. #81
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waking Replica View Post
    I think, best case scenario, Wanda warps reality to create new lives for them by the end. Maybe she does something so bad she wants them to not be associated with her, so instead of pulling a "no, more mutants" at the end like many propose to get the mutants in, she uses her juiced up powers to create new lives for her kids instead. That way, you can circumvent any possession/consent issues since it's them and not other bodies, you can separate them to put distance, and you can still have Jewish Billy, albeit through "adoption" rather than ethnically, which I think, should they not state Wanda being Jewish, is the best we're gonna get. She sends them off to two couples who never actually had kids (well, Jeff and Rebecca had Billy's little brothers, but like everyone knows, they've been MIA for years so who knows) so no one's body is possessed, and you can even say that they've been trying for kids as well, so that there's even less to whine about.
    I could live with that. It would actually feel like Wanda had some agency, which would be a nice change from how the comics dealt with the loss of her kids. Although I also think there's a very strong possibility that they won't go that easy on her and will want to put her through the wringer precisely to replicate the comics. Drama makes for good TV, after all.

  7. #82
    Extraordinary Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    I'm not sure if that's exactly what Fokken was suggesting, but yeah, that's actually a really good point. I was never into the idea that two innocent kids were ''possessed'' by the original twins and had all of their lives just... erased so they could exist. It's such a dark twist to their origin that kind of ruins the wholesomeness of Wanda being reunited with her kids for me. There's already so much sadness and destruction around the story of her kids, and I wouldn't want to think she was indirectly responsible for ruining two more lives in the process of getting her kids back. Which is why I always preferred the time travel/retroreincarnation theory. I like to think the process just happened ever since they were in the wombs of their mothers, with the souls of the babies magically shaping the fetuses so they would be born looking like identical twins (and my theory is that the souls did this so they could eventually recognize and find their way to each other once they were born).

    All that being said... it's possible they won't even go there at all with the reincarnation thing in the MCU. It's a very complicated story to begin with that might not translate well to live action. My guess is still that we will get them in the ''real MCU'' through multiverse shenanigans that are going to happen between WandaVision/Spider-Man 3/Doctor Strange In The Multiverse Of Madness.
    No, no, no, I was most definitely not suggesting possession. haha. Thank you DoV!

    I too feel their impending teen/YA status will be the result of multiverse shenanigans.

    Perhaps when we meet Wiccan & Speed, they'll be an alternate timeline within the multiverse where Wanda created them but they wound up separated and adopted by two different families or something. I dunno. Maybe its to keep them safe. Like she felt they'd be a target so she sent them off to other families thinking they'd be best not associated with her, and likely not have powers.
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  8. #83
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    I was thinking the boys should have a thread of their own.

    I remember there was one for Billy and Teddy, but I wonder if it shouldn't be Billy/Tommy having the joint one lol?

  9. #84
    Astonishing Member Journey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    I was thinking the boys should have a thread of their own.

    I remember there was one for Billy and Teddy, but I wonder if it shouldn't be Billy/Tommy having the joint one lol?
    Likely the only way Tommy could get a thread..... Poor baby

  10. #85
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Actress Emma Caulfield Ford is on episode 6 of WandaVision, and since this is likely the 00s episode with the twins likely being teens, I was just thinking... this is potentially the episode where we see Teddy, if that rumor was true. So... could Emma be Teddy's mom? I could see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    I was thinking the boys should have a thread of their own.

    I remember there was one for Billy and Teddy, but I wonder if it shouldn't be Billy/Tommy having the joint one lol?
    I prefer having one single thread for the Young Avengers just because there are so few characters on the team in comparison to the Avengers or the X-Men, so there isn't as much need to branch out. Plus, with threads resetting every year, this kind of ends up being the most relevant one anyway. But if y'all want to create it, go ahead.

  11. #86
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    Shes from the 70s episode, she was spotted on set a while back. The reason she can reveal her part now is because that's one of the episodes that was screened

  12. #87
    Astonishing Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    I was hoping we would get some new images, but it's the same one Coates had already teased on his Instagram last year. I'm not expecting him to have a big role, but hopefully he'll get a good showing.



    Coates' run is finally coming to an end after a long hiatus, so it makes sense Marvel wants to promote it.
    Even better is that Eli will get good build up from the Falcon and the Winter Solider show. That will get lots of eyes, and allow for his profile to cross from the comics where it's kind of weak and possibly showcase him to folk that are new to YA characters.

  13. #88
    Amazing Member Stature's Avatar
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    Just noticed that Kathryn Newton edited her Instagram post to remove the #STATURE and #CASSIELANG tags. Wonder what that could mean.

    https://imgur.com/a/Kyk1dmh

  14. #89
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    That she wasn't supposed to reveal that yet.

  15. #90
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    So an interviewer asked Elizabeth Olsen if Wanda and Vision would approve of the twins following on their footsteps and becoming superheroes, and she said:

    "I think that they would welcome whoever they become, because they're gonna love their children unconditionally regardless, and they would allow them to just become who they were you know, destined to be."
    https://twitter.com/vizwandamaximof/...52945317453824

    Definetely seems like she's talking about something else for me.

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