Young Avengers Appreciation - 2021

[CosmiComic]

While this is true, I don't actually believe that was the mindset behind historically making Wanda look white. I remember reading some old comic once where Doctor Doom, who is romani, literally tells Luke Cage ''Latveria doesn't have darker-skinned people'', which is a pretty absurd claim coming from a romani person who lives in a country where other romani people exist. Colorism definitely plays a part on how those old romani characters were portrayed.

True, colorism is definitely a problem in need of being corrected!

That's been my interpretation. Like I said, post Young Avengers, no one says anything about Billy and Tommy being romani. I feel like if this was something that was supposed to be canon, they would've made it so by now. The most likely scenario is that Allan just thought of them as white, and the reincarnation backstory ended up being a convenient plot point that saved them from the backlash. But there's still confusion among fans, because Billy and Tommy's origin is obvious very convoluted, and not everyone understands they are not technically Billy and Tommy Maximoff. The MCU didn't help by mixing features from both sets of twins into one.

There is a lot of confusion and misinformation about race and ethnicity within the Young Avengers fandom, when you think of it. People thinking Kate is asian comes to mind, and people thinking America is black too...

America as in Ms. America who going to be in MoM?

[Drops Of Venus]

America as in Ms. America who going to be in MoM?

Yep. I've been seeing so many ''America is supposed to be afro-latina!!'' takes coming from people who hated her MCU casting, but just recently on Black History Month Marvel posted a video highlighting their black heroes, and when they mentioned the Ultimates, they brought up every black member on the team but not America, so I think that was a pretty clear confirmation that they don't see her as black. I mean, the fact that she self-identified as ''brown'' back in her solo book should've been the confirmation, but people hated that run, so I think most people just ignore it. lol

[CosmiComic]

Yep. I've been seeing so many ''America is supposed to be afro-latina!!'' takes coming from people who hated her MCU casting, but just recently on Black History Month Marvel posted a video highlighting their black heroes, and when they mentioned the Ultimates, they brought up every black member on the team except for America, so I think that was a pretty clear confirmation that they don't see her as black. I mean, the fact that she self-identified as ''brown'' back in her solo book should've been the confirmation, but people hated that run, so I think most people just ignore it. lol

IMO the problem is Latino is a nebulous term anyway. Latinos can be European, African, Native American or any mix of those three. So what exactly is she?

[Wiccan]

IMO the problem is Latino is a nebulous term anyway. Latinos can be European, African, Native American or any mix of those three. So what exactly is she?

...Well she's first of all not actually latina but from an alternate dimension. She just has whatever's considered latine features and grew up in latin countries.

[CosmiComic]

...Well she's first of all not actually latina but from an alternate dimension. She just has whatever's considered latine features and grew up in latin countries.

An extra-dimensional being. Ok, cool. But what are Latino features?

[Drops Of Venus]

IMO the problem is Latino is a nebulous term anyway. Latinos can be European, African, Native American or any mix of those three. So what exactly is she?

America is.... complicated as a latina representation, because she's not even human, so there's no real world equivalent to what she is in terms of race, you know? Her ''latinidad'' is mostly based on culture and how she was raised. She was mainly raised by a puerto-rican family in a latin@ community in the US, and then travelled all over the world to other latin@ countries where she met several other communities. Her biological family was just ''vague latina looking women'' from magical dimensions, and her bio grandma for some reason dressed like a luchadora and came from a planet called Fuertona, something that was never explained. Like, how did those ''alien'' women even acquire latin@ culture? We just don't know.

In terms of skin color, it's a mess too. She was created as a lighter-skinned latina in Vengeance and got popular as such in Young Avengers too, but then later colorists went all over the place with her coloring, and sometimes she can go from light to ''mid'' to dark depending on the artist, and that's partially where the confusion about her race comes from. So America is basically a mixed bag, and casting her was always going to be complicated because of that. But as far as canon goes, what we can say for certain is that she is a brown latina, so that was probably their only real requirement for the role.

[CosmiComic]

America is.... complicated as a latina representation, because she's not even human, so there's no real real world equivalent to what she is in terms of race, you know? Her ''latinidad'' is mostly based on culture and how she was raised. She was mainly raised by a puerto-rican family in a latin@ community in the US, and then travelled all over the world to other latin@ countries where she met several other communities. Her biological family was just ''vague latina looking women'' from magical dimensions, and her bio grandma for some reason dressed like a luchadora and came from a planet called Fuertona, something that was never explained. Like, how did those ''alien'' women even acquire latin@ culture? We just don't know.

In terms of skin color, it's a mess too. She was created as a lighter-skinned latina in Vengeance and got popular as such in Young Avengers too, but then later colorists went all over the place with her coloring, and sometimes she can go from light to ''mid'' to dark depending on the artist, and that's partially where the confusion about her race comes from. So America is basically a mixed bag, and casting her was always going to be complicated because of that. But as far as canon goes, what we can say for certain is that she is a brown latina, so that was probably their only real requirement for the role.

Ok. I guess if she was raised by Puerto Ricans, she could look like them. And Puerto Ricans are mixed between all three races from what I know

I wonder how much of this will be in MoM. Also her home universe sounds crazy

[Wiccan]

An extra-dimensional being. Ok, cool. But what are Latino features?

See, that's the problem. She's been drawn as to whatever people consider to be a "latina-looking" character. So how dark her skin is and how curly her hair is varies a lot... Which is why a lot of people consider her to be black (the more recent art usually portraying her as dark-skinned with curly hair).

[Will Evans]

See, that's the problem. She's been drawn as to whatever people consider to be a "latina-looking" character. So how dark her skin is and how curly her hair is varies a lot... Which is why a lot of people consider her to be black (the more recent art usually portraying her as dark-skinned with curly hair).

As a black guy, I never saw her as black. Always saw her as Hispanic/Latina.

I’m not sure where people see her as black came from, in all her art renditions.

[CosmiComic]

See, that's the problem. She's been drawn as to whatever people consider to be a "latina-looking" character. So how dark her skin is and how curly her hair is varies a lot... Which is why a lot of people consider her to be black (the more recent art usually portraying her as dark-skinned with curly hair).

That's kinda why I have trouble with "Latino." IMO it lumps unrelated groups into one "race." It's not like everyone in the USA is one race just because they mostly speak English. Try telling an African-American or Native American person that. So the same shouldn't be done to everyone south of the border either

As a black guy, I never saw her as black. Always saw her as Hispanic/Latina.

I’m not sure where people see her as black came from, in all her art renditions.

I assume because some Latino people are black or part black

[Kingdom X]

That's kinda why I have trouble with "Latino." IMO it lumps unrelated groups into one "race." It's not like everyone in the USA is one race just because they mostly speak English. Try telling an African-American or Native American person that. So the same shouldn't be done to everyone south of the border either

I assume because some Latino people are black or part black

You’re mixing up Hispanic and Latino. Hispanic means that you speak Spanish (thus the lumping of people based on the language they speak) and Latino refers to people who originate from Central and South America.

[CosmiComic]

You’re mixing up Hispanic and Latino. Hispanic means that you speak Spanish (thus the lumping of people based on the language they speak) and Latino refers to people who originate from Central and South America.

You're right. But I still feel Latino is a misused term. CA and SA have as much ethnic variety as, maybe even more so than, NA, and I don't see that reflected in that term, especially with how it's used in American media. And as Wiccan pointed out, Latino features is a term varying between every person.

[Sutekh]

So I was just randomly thinking that we've considered Teddy meeting up with Phyla (soon to happen in Guardians of the Galaxy) or Genis, the other kids of Mar-Vell, but I don't know if there's been any thought of Billy and Tommy meeting up with TJ (Nocturne), daughter of Wanda and Kurt Wagner, from another continuity, who is kinda/sorta their half-sister (certainly as much related to them as they are to each other, or to Wanda).

[Wiccan]

Yeah, I'm latino myself and I'm white as a paper. I would never consider myself a POC just for that, even if I likely do have some black heritage from my dad's side.

[CosmiComic]

Yeah, I'm latino myself and I'm white as a paper. I would never consider myself a POC just for that, even if I likely do have some black heritage from my dad's side.

That's interesting. I'm biracial so I identify as both. I think as humans we're more mixed than we may assume.

Do you think the artists need to be a bit more conscious about racially ambiguous characters?