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  1. #3781
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    For me Morrison's run was very experimental and was more about him finding a corner of the DC universe where he could stretch his legs and tell some tales moreso than it was really about Hal and the GLC. He respected Hal and had a good handle on him but his run didn't add anything to Hal cannon for me really. The fact that a big gun creator on a top shelf property only had so so sales says alot about where the industry is right now. I don't know if there is a buzz about much of any book right now. Hellions fans like the book but that is just in relation to the other X-books. There is a frenzy around the Superman/boy announcement but that feels more like a PR stunt it pops and is then forgotten to diminishing results. Doomsday Clock, and the Metal books didn't move the needle really and neither has anything over at Marvel. There are critics favorites like Mister Miracle but nothing that changes the industry as a whole. Spawn books are selling well but I am not sure if that is just McFarlane taking a bigger hand in the title or because of the price point, hey I like a 2.99 book. I personally would love Geoff and Ivan to come back to a Hal centered GL book but the market seems very jaded and distracted so it would take a good year of great stories before it would really move the needle, best case scenario.

  2. #3782
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmeraldGladiator View Post
    Johns had a respect for continuity and past writers and characters so other GL's fared well. This is much better than "the audience is easily confused so there can only be one GL in the entire GL universe", in a way wrecking a franchise to prop up a character in the era right before his.
    Eh, that's a YMMV for Johns. He's better than some and some of his ideas end up working better for some characters over past ideas, but I wouldn't say he manages that across the board. And I don't think I'd ever want him to come back to Hal again since his writing for the character declined from the New 52 onward. I think Morrison writes a much better Hal at this point. But I agree in the particular instance of the GL franchise, Johns's favoritism for Hal didn't result in major slights towards any other GL (and I don't think Wally getting screwed over was his intention at all even if he prefers Barry).

    I don't think they are adopting a "One GL in the entire universe" stance since John, Jo, Jessica and whoever the teen lantern is is getting some spotlight as far as I'm aware. It's just less focus on Hal, and the focus he does get isn't great.

  3. #3783
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    Yeah. I can understand the frustration some fans feel, but it's not as though this is another Wally West or Cassandra Cain situation.

  4. #3784
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Man, I love this book
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    Doesn't know who the president is but promises to tell the driver a story if he takes him to the nearest bar. That scene is just too perfect. Who is this guy, he doesn't seem so boring to me.
    lol, I shared that around on other sites I go to back during election in the U.S. and actually got some people to pick up the series. Did my part.

  5. #3785
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    Yeah. I can understand the frustration some fans feel, but it's not as though this is another Wally West or Cassandra Cain situation.
    Not one yet

    I think it's because Hal got thrown under the bus before and so we are extra paranoid that it might happen again. DC also generally not being able to be trusted with any character that isn't Batman, the Joker or Harley certainly doesn't help.

    I think the struggle for Hal fans is the balance between being concerned (and voicing concerns within reason) and resisting the urge to blindly panic. And voicing that we want more content, but also not being too entitled because we had the Johns, Vendetti and Morrison runs and more other media content than the other lanterns.

  6. #3786
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Eh, that's a YMMV for Johns. He's better than some and some of his ideas end up working better for some characters over past ideas, but I wouldn't say he manages that across the board. And I don't think I'd ever want him to come back to Hal again since his writing for the character declined from the New 52 onward. I think Morrison writes a much better Hal at this point. But I agree in the particular instance of the GL franchise, Johns's favoritism for Hal didn't result in major slights towards any other GL (and I don't think Wally getting screwed over was his intention at all even if he prefers Barry).

    I don't think they are adopting a "One GL in the entire universe" stance since John, Jo, Jessica and whoever the teen lantern is is getting some spotlight as far as I'm aware. It's just less focus on Hal, and the focus he does get isn't great.
    I prefer Johns' Hal to Morrison's but Morrison wrote Hal the only way they really could. But they came at their runs in entirely different ways.

  7. #3787
    Extraordinary Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I think the struggle for Hal fans is the balance between being concerned (and voicing concerns within reason) and resisting the urge to blindly panic. And voicing that we want more content, but also not being too entitled because we had the Johns, Vendetti and Morrison runs and more other media content than the other lanterns.
    Yeah that's a really good way of putting it. On one hand you're thinking that what's been happening to Hal in recent memory isn't good and there clearly seems to be a pattern to it, while on the other hand you're worried about not coming off as an entitled brat who doesn't like to share their toys since Hal's obviously had plenty of attention since his return, so it's a tricky thing to balance it out and find a fine line that doesn't go too far in either direction.

  8. #3788
    Fantastic Member MaxStirner_91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    Yeah that's a really good way of putting it. On one hand you're thinking that what's been happening to Hal in recent memory isn't good and there clearly seems to be a pattern to it, while on the other hand you're worried about not coming off as an entitled brat who doesn't like to share their toys since Hal's obviously had plenty of attention since his return, so it's a tricky thing to balance it out and find a fine line that doesn't go too far in either direction.
    Yup. That said, I think our criticism of Hal's portrayal in these Elseworld stories as following a recurring pattern and not being a particular case of strong writing or having an understanding of the character is valid, as long as we're not being overly paranoid (conspiracy theories) and acting entitled.

    Goddamn, I love the Hal and the driver scene too! Johns' Hal came off as dumb in not knowing who Bruce Wayne is; Morrison's Hal is like he has far too many important matters to attend to and richer worlds/experiences to inhabit to care about knowing the identities of spoiled rich millionaires on Earth.

  9. #3789
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxStirner_91 View Post
    Goddamn, I love the Hal and the driver scene too! Johns' Hal came off as dumb in not knowing who Bruce Wayne is; Morrison's Hal is like he has far too many important matters to attend to and richer worlds/experiences to inhabit to care about knowing the identities of spoiled rich millionaires on Earth.
    New 52 Hal in JL was pretty dumb but that was really the only time he came off that way from what I remember. He was more in-character in the solo series other than losing track of stuff because he'd been in space/been GL for so long, like when he lost his apartment.

  10. #3790
    Fantastic Member MaxStirner_91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    New 52 Hal in JL was pretty dumb but that was really the only time he came off that way from what I remember. He was more in-character in the solo series other than losing track of stuff because he'd been in space/been GL for so long, like when he lost his apartment.

    I liked Johns' Hal early on in Rebirth and the first few issues of the run. I didn't really like the Wanted arc but I didn't mind his portrayal of Hal from SCW through Blackest Night. Somewhere along the way, however, Hal became someone occupying the passenger seat in his own series as it became more about Sinestro. And towards the end of the series, I didn't really care for his portrayal of Hal at all. The bit about losing the apartment is also exemplary in my problem with Johns and a lot of other people's portrayal of Hal. Here, Hal comes across as a failure. Whereas Morrison's Hal is a beatnik, not only on Earth but in cosmic terms. And far from this being a character "flaw", it represents an ethical incommensurability between what we traditionally take to be an understanding of the "good" life and Hal's understanding of it. It immediately makes him a hundred times more interesting. Morrison's Hal can also rush into situations not because he's a hothead but he's just that damn good. He's almost a paradoxical character, evoking a mix of Newman, Eastwood, Brando in terms of personality (and thus, in a sense, an old timey hero) but at the same time, an extraordinarily progressive one. My favourite Johns portrayal of Hal is probably in Rebirth when he smiles after getting punched by Sinestro. Sadly, that Hal is nowhere to be seen by the end of his run.

  11. #3791
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxStirner_91 View Post
    I liked Johns' Hal early on in Rebirth and the first few issues of the run. I didn't really like the Wanted arc but I didn't mind his portrayal of Hal from SCW through Blackest Night. Somewhere along the way, however, Hal became someone occupying the passenger seat in his own series as it became more about Sinestro. And towards the end of the series, I didn't really care for his portrayal of Hal at all. The bit about losing the apartment is also exemplary in my problem with Johns and a lot of other people's portrayal of Hal. Here, Hal comes across as a failure. Whereas Morrison's Hal is a beatnik, not only on Earth but in cosmic terms. And far from this being a character "flaw", it represents an ethical incommensurability between what we traditionally take to be an understanding of the "good" life and Hal's understanding of it. It immediately makes him a hundred times more interesting. Morrison's Hal can also rush into situations not because he's a hothead but he's just that damn good. He's almost a paradoxical character, evoking a mix of Newman, Eastwood, Brando in terms of personality (and thus, in a sense, an old timey hero) but at the same time, an extraordinarily progressive one. My favourite Johns portrayal of Hal is probably in Rebirth when he smiles after getting punched by Sinestro. Sadly, that Hal is nowhere to be seen by the end of his run.
    Well, I know one of the arguments about the book was much how much Sinestro was focused on in the run in general (although I think it helped make him a lot more compelling of a villain) but I think Hal was still the main main character.

    The idea in Johns' run wasn't that Hal was a failure but that his life had shifted so much towards being Green Lantern that he had forgotten to focus on his life as Hal Jordan which also came up during the quest for the Emotional Spectrum entities, which is why when he lost the ring again he focused on repairing his relationship with Carol and not mulling over the fact that he wasn't Green Lantern anymore. Sinestro viewed him as a complete failure but Sinestro always projects on Hal.

    Of course the way I see Hal he is both that good and a hothead which is why he's so effective.

  12. #3792
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    I credit Johns for making me fall in love with the character, but in hindsight there are times when his Hal comes across as the negative way non-fans view him as legitimately being, but presented in a way that we are meant to like. Cocky and macho, but not always in ways that are endearing. The New 52 JL was comically bad, but even in the solo book at various points (more towards the back half) Hal either became a guest star in his own book or alternated between being compelling and frustrating (the flash forward to him being married to Carol with a son is aces though).

    Morrison's Hal is macho in a refreshingly old fashioned way and confident, without being overly cocky or hot headed about it (which threatens to strip the endearing aspect out).

  13. #3793
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I credit Johns for making me fall in love with the character, but in hindsight there are times when his Hal comes across as the negative way non-fans view him as legitimately being, but presented in a way that we are meant to like. Cocky and macho, but not always in ways that are endearing. The New 52 JL was comically bad, but even in the solo book at various points (more towards the back half) Hal either became a guest star in his own book or alternated between being compelling and frustrating (the flash forward to him being married to Carol with a son is aces though).
    I think definitely in the back-half with Sinestro's development and the Emotional Spectrum stuff that focus shifted to other characters to some degree, but I feel like Hal was still present and important. And the frustrating stuff was more for character building (in my opinion).
    Morrison's Hal is macho in a refreshingly old fashioned way and confident, without being overly cocky or hot headed about it (which threatens to strip the endearing aspect out).
    To me he came off as a little too dispassionate and out of it but I think Morrison wrote Hal in a way that fit the kind of archetypal cosmic space stories they wanted to write with GL. Though I'm probably in the minority of not loving that run, even as a Hal fan.

  14. #3794
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    I think the later, post-BN, portion of Johns’ run is where the criticism “anyone could have been the lead in Johns’ run” holds some bit of water.

    I view more Johns and Morrison’s Hal as just the same guy at different parts of his life, with the necessary squinting of course. Morrison’s Hal to me just pretty much had just nothing left to prove unlike Hal when he came back from his decade of being Parallax/dead/The Spectre.

  15. #3795
    Fantastic Member MaxStirner_91's Avatar
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    Regardless of our preference for Morrison or Johns, I think we can all agree that the portrayal of Hal in these current Elseworld stories leave a lot to be desired.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    I view more Johns and Morrison’s Hal as just the same guy at different parts of his life, with the necessary squinting of course. Morrison’s Hal to me just pretty much had just nothing left to prove unlike Hal when he came back from his decade of being Parallax/dead/The Spectre.
    That's actually a really nice way of putting it.

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