Hal Jordan: The Green Lantern Appreciation 2021

[j9ac9k]

honest questions:

- what did supes do to lois back in the silver age?
- how was kilowog different back then? (my first exposure to kilowog was reading back issues of emerald dawn).

Superman used to play all sorts of weird mind games with Lois back then and she was more shallow and marriage hungry. (Martha was right in Josstice League calling her thirsty - that's how she was then)

And Kilowog was originally shown as a "gentle giant" type - simple-minded in terms of emotions, but intelligent in science because he was a biochemist(?) He also had a huge unrequited crush on Arisia. It was "Emerald Dawn" that re-worked him as a drill seargent, though I think it was because of Keith Giffen. He co-wrote "ED" but prior to that, there was a short story where Kilowog was no longer a GL (the battery had exploded... as it tends to do) and he was hanging out with the JLI. Giffen wrote a story where Kilowog was still "simple" but more gruff than childlike and he was still smart, but with technology rather than bio-chemistry.(he was even dressed as a mechanic) I think that was the bridge story where he went from gentle giant simple to drill seargent tough. (this is all from memory - I might be a bit wrong about how he transitioned)

[Holt]

If not Carol, I'd probably pick any of the other love interests over Arisha.

That falls firmly into the "let us never speak of this again" category. Cowgirl or Eve please.

Yeah they should steer clear of the Aresia thing from here on out. That's a whole can of worms the character doesn't need.

Has anyone done anything with Cowgirl since Johns left the franchise? I always thought she was cool, even if she was inevitably just an obstacle to Hal and Carol getting back together.

[SiegePerilous02]

Disagree. Arisia was a GL that Hal had a relationship with for awhile. Nobody needs to know more than that - there have been several universe-rewriting Crises between then and now. Are we supposed to not think Lois belongs with Superman because of all the fucked up shit he did to her during the silver age? Somehow we can ignore all those stories because they don't hold up, but Arisia is somehow damaged goods because of her story from over 30 yrs ago? I call BS on that. Btw, Kilowog is a completely different character from what he was then, but we can also ignore that with no problem?

It's not as if the romance between Clark and Lois in the Silver Age hasn't received boat loads of criticism over the years. But at the end of the day they were at least both adults, and they had plenty of material both before and after the Silver Age presenting their romance as healthy and iconic. The foundation for their romance is incredibly solid that it can bounce back even when DC takes it into weird/bad directions.

There is nothing for Hal and Arisha on that level, no way does she belong with him the same way Lois belongs with Clark. When the foundation includes a story written in the modern age of comics where our hero comes off as a sleezy pedo coasting by on some flimsy technicalities, the foundation is rotten. No good can come from it when there are a wealth of better options, and this "romance" just gives further ammo for Hal detractors to use against him, as if he is to blame for the weird problematic ideas of certain writers. I think the recent killing of Arisha is a step too far if the reasoning is they want to further bury this story (it sucks that a female character has to get killed because she's a walking inconvenience to a male character), but at the same time...any further distance we can get from this storyline can't be all bad.

Yeah they should steer clear of the Aresia thing from here on out. That's a whole can of worms the character doesn't need.

Has anyone done anything with Cowgirl since Johns left the franchise? I always thought she was cool, even if she was inevitably just an obstacle to Hal and Carol getting back together.

She teamed up with Hal recently in season 2 of Morrison's GL. I think it was issue #3. They didn't hook up, but they got a beer together

[Frontier]

I don't think you need to treat Arisia as like a Lois Lane level love interest but I don't think mentioning her relationship with Hal in the present-day is that problematic. It's not like people are going to immediately go back and re-read that stuff in my opinion.

[Ra-El]

As far as love interests go, I will stand by Pengowirr. If the world is ready for Loki falling for himself, it can deal with Hal falling for his power ring.

[SiegePerilous02]

I don't think you need to treat Arisia as like a Lois Lane level love interest but I don't think mentioning her relationship with Hal in the present-day is that problematic. It's not like people are going to immediately go back and re-read that stuff in my opinion.

In this day and age? Yes it's very problematic.

They may not go out and read it, but why take that chance? They could still certainly hear about it. People already use the Arisha thing as an excuse to bash on Hal, why give them further ammo? Referencing it and keeping it as canon after stuff like #MeToo would be like shooting themselves in the foot and writer suicide. There is zero net positive here, and a lot of negatives Hal does not remotely need. There is a good reason Morrison didn't touch Arisha in their run.

[Anthony Shaw]

I find it weird that Geoff retconned Carol's involvement with Katma's murder, but kept the relationship between Hal & Aresia (and tried to explain it).

Murdering people while possessed could have been a link to draw Hal & Carol closer.

[Frontier]

In this day and age? Yes it's very problematic.

They may not go out and read it, but why take that chance? They could still certainly hear about it. People already use the Arisha thing as an excuse to bash on Hal, why give them further ammo? Referencing it and keeping it as canon after stuff like #MeToo would be like shooting themselves in the foot and writer suicide. There is zero net positive here, and a lot of negatives Hal does not remotely need. There is a good reason Morrison didn't touch Arisha in their run.

People will find any excuse to bash a character they don't like in my opinion. And Arisia has changed so much from that character that I just don't see it being as much of a factor any more. But that's just me.

I'm not even asking for some grand recounting of their relationship or getting them back together, just acknowledging they were involved and cared about each other. I like both characters and that's a net positive for me .

I find it weird that Geoff retconned Carol's involvement with Katma's murder, but kept the relationship between Hal & Aresia (and tried to explain it).

Murdering people while possessed could have been a link to draw Hal & Carol closer.

I think we could do with less murder. Actually, I don't think anyone Parallax killed stayed dead? Unless I'm forgetting.

[Anthony Shaw]

People will find any excuse to bash a character they don't like in my opinion. And Arisia has changed so much from that character that I just don't see it being as much of a factor any more. But that's just me.

I'm not even asking for some grand recounting of their relationship or getting them back together, just acknowledging they were involved and cared about each other. I like both characters and that's a net positive for me .

I think we could do with less murder. Actually, I don't think anyone Parallax killed stayed dead? Unless I'm forgetting.

The person Carol killed stayed dead, despite retcons and reboots. Geoff kept all the grimdark for one human GL.

Aresia should have stayed in the kid sister zone when Hal got a fresh start.

[Frontier]

The person Carol killed stayed dead, despite retcons and reboots. Geoff kept all the grimdark for one human GL.

Kyle's girlfriend stayed fridged too.

Aresia should have stayed in the kid sister zone when Hal got a fresh start.

But then we wouldn't have gotten modern Arisia or her dynamic with Sodam Yat.

[Anthony Shaw]

Kyle's girlfriend stayed fridged too.

But then we wouldn't have gotten modern Arisia or her dynamic with Sodam Yat.

I did think of Kyle's girlfriend as I was posting. I could be wrong, but her death was part of his origin. Her death sucked, but it did start a movement for writers to be aware if certain tropes.

I liked the dynamic with Yat, but it went nowhere, AFAIK. A fun story could have went down where Hal, John, and Guy play over protective big brothers watching this two go on missions, despite both being more than qualified.

[Frontier]

I did think of Kyle's girlfriend as I was posting. I could be wrong, but her death was part of his origin. Her death sucked, but it did start a movement for writers to be aware if certain tropes.

Although one could argue all the trauma John went through was a character building experience, just like Parallax's possession of Hal ended up being for him.

I liked the dynamic with Yat, but it went nowhere, AFAIK. A fun story could have went down where Hal, John, and Guy play over protective big brothers watching this two go on missions, despite both being more than qualified.

But part of the dynamic was Arisia being a much more experienced Corpswoman.

[EmeraldGladiator]

I personally give zero F's what the Hal haters think, they aren't in a position to be persuaded. I also have zero interest in an pan sexual nonsense. I am mourning the loss of my Alan Scott to political correctness so I don't want that anywhere near Hal. Arisia is my favorite female character in the GL universe so of course I want her with my favorite male character in the GL universe.

[SiegePerilous02]

People will find any excuse to bash a character they don't like in my opinion. And Arisia has changed so much from that character that I just don't see it being as much of a factor any more. But that's just me.

Yeah they will find any reason to hate a character, but this is a thing that even a lot of Hal fans are not comfortable with and don't care for the heat it brings him. It's always going to be a factor. Problematic things characters do in their published history always gets dug up, even when it is obviously the the fault of the writers. Just searching Hal and Arishia in Google brings up quite a few articles by CBR on how creepy this was.

I think them being friends and allies who care about each other is all the needs to be acknowledged. We get all the positive aspects right there, with none of the negatives. I'd rather Hal not be compared to R. Kelly or Matt Gaetz if he doesn't have to, and he really, really doesn't.

I personally give zero F's what the Hal haters think, they aren't in a position to be persuaded. I also have zero interest in an pan sexual nonsense. I am mourning the loss of my Alan Scott to political correctness so I don't want that anywhere near Hal. Arisia is my favorite female character in the GL universe so of course I want her with my favorite male character in the GL universe.

You don't want political correctness near Hal, but you're fine with his romance with a teenager?

Because I'd be mourning the character if this romance ever came back.

[EmeraldGladiator]

It's the modern comics mandate that I recognize is why I have no problem with it. Comic characters mostly only age to a point and then stop. The "forever 29" thing. Hal ages to 29 and stops but Arisia ages up until she hits that age as well. The same way Bruce is forever 29 but Dick is now basically in his mid 20s himself. Soon they will basically be the same age as Damien pushes Tim into his 20's. Even without that Arisia was a gal in her teens crushing on a guy in his 20's. When the time comes when they are both in their 20's they hook up. It happens a lot in the real world. In my mind what is Jessica now 20-22? That would put Arisia without the 100 year plus up, 24-26, perfectly reasonable for forever 29 Hal.